How Do Christians Reconcile The Following Question Regarding Their Faith?

[prometheus11]

Bad comparison.
When you take into consideration the Christian to atheist ratio outside of prison and compare it to the Christian to atheist ratio inside....

This individual is claiming that atheists should and will kill their own offspring for the sake of convenience among other ridiculous notions of horrific atrocities. IF her notions were accurate about atheists, the prisons would be FULL of them.

Compare notes with her a bit more to recognize the sort of oddity we are dealing with, here.

 

[Thana]

If atheists were as horrible as you claim, the prisons would be filled with them. Instead, they're full of Christians. I guess they rationalize that if God can kill and torture, they can too?

Now where has this come from?
I haven't said anything that insinuates that Atheists are horrible.

For the last time, It was my view of the world from my own perspective on Atheism. It's not what I think Atheism is or what I think Atheists think, I understand they are people with their own ideologies. All I did was share mine.

 

[Thana]

Sounded like you do, based upon the post in question.

Well that wasn't my intent.

 

[prometheus11]

Now where has this come from?
I haven't said anything that insinuates that Atheists are horrible.

For the last time, It was my view of the world from my own perspective on Atheism. It's not what I think Atheism is or what I think Atheists think, I understand they are people with their own ideologies. All I did was share mine.

You are claiming it as "reality" and "truth" regardless of any evidence that has been provided to you that proves you wrong. Reread your posts. Recognize your behavior.

 

[Thana]

You are claiming it as "reality" and "truth" regardless of any evidence that has been provided to you that proves you wrong. Reread your posts. Recognize your behavior.

How is it not reality? Are we not animals that have been programmed a certain way by a process with no sentience behind it just so that we can survive for a time before we all eventually die out and the Earth fades and our existence is erased?

And you haven't provided any evidence. I keep asking for it, though. And I'm perfectly happy to change my view if I am convinced it's faulty, But I don't think it is and no one has even provided any evidence to the contrary. I understand that you don't think about these things, But what is that supposed to change?

 

[popsthebuilder]

We've discussed free will ad nauseam in this thread, and of course when I was a Christian, it was a central tenet of life in general.

Thanks for participating and feel free to continue. I'm pretty much done here.

Good luck with whatever your looking for. I hope you find it.

Peace

 

[prometheus11]

How is it not reality? Are we not animals that have been programmed a certain way by a process with no sentience behind it just so that we can survive for a time before we all eventually die out and the Earth fades and our existence is erased?

Because we observe reality, and what you describe isn't happening.

I don't know. Why should I?

And you haven't provided any evidence. I keep asking for it, though. And I'm perfectly happy to change my view if I am convinced it's faulty, But I don't think it is and no one has even provided any evidence to the contrary. I understand that you don't think about these things, But what is that supposed to change?

Evidence for what?

It's irrational to believe stupid stuff just because nobody has "provided evidence to the contrary,".

For example, it'd be stupid to that gravity is caused by invisible fairies unless someone can show "evidence to the contrary."

 

[Yoshua]

I was a devoted Christian for a very long time, 25 years or more - a Trinity believing Protestant taught that our creator God is omniscient (all-knowing) omnipotent (all-powerful) and omnipresent (present everywhere at the same time). This creator designed and created men and women fully and completely all by 'himself'.

What I don't understand, is if this creator purposefully designed and unleashed upon the earth a creature capable of rape and murder, why isn't 'He' to blame for these atrocities? Why would you construct a being with the potential to do so much harm to his fellow humans? What was the motive?

If my son murdered a human and I supplied the gun knowing ahead of time he'd shoot someone, I'm held accountable for my part in the homicide. How much more so should God be held accountable for DESIGNING a creature that he KNOWS ahead of time (he's omniscient, remember) will murder a fellow human?

Hi Buttercup,

I think the first thing we need to know is how does an all-knowing , powerful and omnipresent God become accountable and to be blame for the wickedness of man He created?

Honestly, man cannot reach nor comprehend the mind of God. We are like a sand in His eyes. If we take into consideration that God is held accountable and to be blame for all the wickedness, that would entirely contradicted God's love and mercy by sending His Son, Jesus Christ to free us from the slavery of sin. God does not created a human that will put Himself at stake by his own doing. As you have said, He is all-knowing.

Thanks

 

[prometheus11]

Hi Buttercup,

I think the first thing we need to know is how does an all-knowing , powerful and omnipresent God become accountable and to be blame for the wickedness of man He created?

Honestly, man cannot reach nor comprehend the mind of God. We are like a sand in His eyes. If we take into consideration that God is held accountable and to be blame for all the wickedness, that would entirely contradicted God's love and mercy by sending His Son, Jesus Christ to free us from the slavery of sin. God does not created a human that will put Himself at stake by his own doing. As you have said, He is all-knowing.

Thanks

Because God allows all wickedness. He doesn't have to. He choses to. He could restrict it. He doesn't. That's why.

 

[Buttercup]

Hi Buttercup,

Hi Yoshua!

I think the first thing we need to know is how does an all-knowing , powerful and omnipresent God become accountable and to be blame for the wickedness of man He created?

Easiest question I've had to answer so far. How do we hold the Abrahamic God accountable for the wickedess of man? We stop believing he exists, that's what I did. It took me a few years of study, discussions and debates and finally, after my mind digested all the information I had previously not allowed in, it was easy to let go of Him. And I haven't looked back since.

I hope you continue to enjoy the thread though, if you choose. I've said all I have to say on the subject already. Thanks for participating

 

[Yoshua]

I understand your analogy, believe me. I lived with the morals of free choice for a long time. I don't see the Abrahamic God in the same way anymore (obviously, ha!) According to Christianity, God is our creator and designer, right? You don't see a problem with a designer purposefully creating a man who rapes, murders and dismembers a child all the while sitting back, watching and doing nothing about it? I realize you think this man has a choice, and you're correct, he does. However, why create a monster like this in the first place? My question to you, personally is, how do you reconcile that with your worship and faith in Him? I'd love to hear an answer deeper than "free will" from a Christian. I know we have choices. That's the easy part. What is God's motive for creating man the way he is?

Hi Buttercup,

Did God really created a monster. I don't think so.

Gen. 1:27
27. And God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

I can't imagine that God created us to be a "puppet", no free-will and thinking.

Thanks

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No, the "consequence" is that the assailant's hand hurts and that the victim's head hurts. A consequence is a direct outcome of an action. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. The punishment of the mother is the mother's choice -- not a direct reaction of the action. The mother wasn't directly involved in the action. Ever hear the adage, "Ignorance is bliss?" When humanity grew out of its ignorance, being banished from bliss -- or the garden -- was a direct reaction of that action. We now know too much, we're now responsible for our actions and the ensuing reactions. Where God enters the picture is that "that's the way God (or life -- or existence) works: there's an equal reaction for every action." It's not punitive, because there's no "outside force" acting upon us. So it's not like "God putting us in the Naughty Chair." It's like, "You fall down; you scrape your knee."

When you put "that''s the way God (or life- or existence)" putting god in terms of life itself makes more sense. Life doesn't punish us. Yet, from how I read and hear many Christians say, God did punish the first humans for acting against his command. That reaction from that action was a consequence. It all goes together.

In other words, what I hear is that god does put people in the Naughty Chair. When I read "god took them out of the garden" metaphor or not, that was a punishment (an action god did) for the consequence (the result of) the sin (bad action against god) the first humans commited.

I can't remember the main point of the conversation, though. I can't think of another word other than punish.

Adam and eve being taken from the garden isn't the same as scaping one's knee when falling. The former, god actually with intent took them from the garden because of what they did. There was an outside force. In the latter, it was, say, an accident. The former is a punishment/action done to someone else because of the consequences of their bad actions. The latter, it was just an action which has a reaction.

One has an outside force the other one doesnt.

That is, if god is an actual being, and not life itself.

 

[Yoshua]

Easiest question I've had to answer so far. How do we hold the Abrahamic God accountable for the wickedess of man? We stop believing he exists, that's what I did. It took me a few years of study, discussions and debates and finally, after my mind digested all the information I had previously not allowed in, it was easy to let go of Him. And I haven't looked back since.

I hope you continue to enjoy the thread though, if you choose. I've said all I have to say on the subject already. Thanks for participating

Hi Buttercup,

I believe we can't blame God as He is accountable for the wickedness of man. Cease to believe that He exists cannot erase the truth that He really exists.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

How do you reconcile your notion that God is beyond human understanding with your repeated appeals to human understanding (see, for instance, the above) in order to understand him? For instance, if God were truly beyond human understanding, then what grounds can you stand on when saying that "God is good" or "God is not cruel and evil"? Or even more to the point, how can you suggest that, if he were cruel and evil, he would not have bothered to create things that are good, when the very suggestion implies God thinks like you and, hence, is understandable to you after all?

Hi Sunstone,

How can a God is not beyond human understanding if He is not God? Man can have a knowledge about God through the Holy Scriptures and nothing else.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

Good, I'll look forward to it. One thing I admire about LDS doctrine is that a person still has opportunity to come to God after death. That's absolutely missing in mainstream Christianity.

Buttercup,

The opportunity to come to God is when we are in living in the flesh (human). In the Scripture, the "Missing" in the mainstream Christianity does not guarantees man's salvation. It is only through Christ that we can be saved (Acts 4:12). That is the truth that we can be free.

Thanks

 

[Katzpur]

The opportunity to come to God is when we are in living in the flesh (human).

And that kind of sucks for people who died without ever having had the chance to hear of Jesus Christ, doesn't it? Oh well, you win a few, you lose a few.

 

[Yoshua]

I agree.

I had been in orthodox Christianity for decades, with many of those years acting as a teacher within it as well. I left after realizing, in my perspective, that orthodox Christian theology actually presents a god who is limited, selfish, and immoral.

• Limited, because he could not exist on his own without creating a separate creation to fulfill his unfulfilled needs.
• Selfish, because he created creation and all of its inherent suffering, even while possessing foreknowledge of all the evils and deficiencies in his creation.
• Immoral, because, knowing the inherent evil and suffering his creation would produce, continued to create creation as prime mover, yet blames and punishes the creature for what he originated and foreknew.

Hi Buddhist,

I had been a believer of Buddha since I was a kid until high school. I started to learn about Christianity in my high school years. I left Buddhism because of the truth that God had given to us. I've felt God's love, peace and joy. Those are things that money can't buy, and things that cannot be acquired by our own human effort.

Love, God send His only Son, Jesus Christ to suffer for us for the purpose of giving us hope for salvation (John 3:16).
Peace, there is peace of God who fills our heart and mind.
Joy, there is joy from God who fills our heart and mind.

God does exists and still existing. He is not selfish and does not create man to suffer. His great love saved us from the penalty of sin. God is moral. This is the reason why there is morality. I believed that God take His place for us not to suffer, and that is the message of the cross.

Rev. 1:5
5. and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us, and released us from our sins by His blood,

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

And that kind of sucks for people who died without ever having had the chance to hear of Jesus Christ, doesn't it? Oh well, you win a few, you lose a few.

Hi Katzpur,

Do you think that God's mercy, all-knowing God and justice will prevail for those who haven't heard about Christ? I don't see God that way. Christianity is one on one personal relationship.

I don't know where did you get the doctrine of death-salvation in the Holy Bible?

Thanks

 

[Deathbydefault]

I think the first thing we need to know is how does an all-knowing , powerful and omnipresent God become accountable and to be blame for the wickedness of man He created?

Kind of a rhetorical question...

How can the creator of all things be held accountable for creating evil things?
That's the question I basically just read.

 

[Yoshua]

Please answer my question.

Adam did not have knowledge of good and evil before eating the fruit of the tree that gave him knowledge of good and evil. So how could Adam know disobedience was evil before he had the ability to know what good and evil was?

Prometheus,

Gen. 2:16-17
16. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
17. but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you shall surely die."

Gen. 3:1-3
The Fall of Man
1. Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, `You shall not eat from any tree of the garden'?"
2. And the woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat;
3. but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, `You shall not eat from it or touch it, lest you die.'"

Thanks