How Do Christians Reconcile The Following Question Regarding Their Faith?

[sojourner]

Wrong. The free will of the person with the biggest gun gets to supersede the free choices of another. Consider rape, or worse.

Not true. That person's will outcome may preval in a contest of wills, but each party s free to will whatever they wish. People can be made to act against their will, but their will doesn't change.

 

[prometheus11]

Sometimes you wish you could "like" a post twice.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

No, God giving free will has nothing to do with my questions. My questions work regardless of God giving free will or not.

Don't presume.

It was a false dichotomy

 

[prometheus11]

Not true. That person's will outcome may preval in a contest of wills, but each party s free to will whatever they wish. People can be made to act against their will, but their will doesn't change.

Doesn't sound like it does much good, then.

 

[prometheus11]

It was a false dichotomy

No, it's an irrelevancy.

Again, we can assume God does give free will or doesn't. My questions remain either way.

 

[sojourner]

That's a cultural thing, though. Western culture pushes people out, other cultures want to keep their children until they are married.

They were punished because they ate the forbidden fruit. Maybe thrown out isn't a good word, but that was the consequence of their actions. I think I touched on this on #335 to Katzpur.

How is it a punishment?

 

[sojourner]

Doesn't sound like it does much good, then.

Will doesn't "do" anything.

 

[prometheus11]

Will doesn't "do" anything.

It doesn't allow one to make choices?

 

[sojourner]

It wouldn't be an obligation, though. It would be something one wants to do. Like I'd choose to love my mother more if she hugged me. However, if she kept hitting me all my life, then how can I learn to appreciate her? Is that something I should have in order to learn how to love?

That just doesn't make sense to me. So sorry.

But that still doesn't constitute a choice. A choice "either this or that." Not "either this or this."

 

[sojourner]

It doesn't allow one to make choices?

No.

 

[sojourner]

I'm seeing that most of the Christians, if not all of them in this thread, give God a free pass as far any culpability regarding the programming of his creatures to murder.

I don't think God "programs" us.

 

[sojourner]

God is Holy, meaning perfect.

"Holy" means "set apart," not "perfect."

 

[Buttercup]

I don't think God "programs" us.

Hi!

You'll have to go back (if you want) and read the posts regarding my thoughts on human design created by the Abrahamic God. I've pretty much said all I have to say and will leave this thread, as is, for now.

 

[Thana]

Ten years ago I couldn't have IMAGINED living without God. I'm currently agnostic and happier and feel more at peace than I've ever felt. It took awhile to let go of being afraid of being thrown into Hell for letting go of Christ, but once that fear was gone, it's been glorious. Every person needs to find their own way, one that makes the most sense to them. I still feel a "spirit" of something inside me but I'm not sure what "it" is. I like it though.

Hell isn't what I'm afraid of, It's life. More specifically, A meaningless life. Because you can have nice feelings, and have kids, and live your life and then die but your life will have meant nothing. Your feelings would have meant nothing, and everything you suffered, everything you worked for, everything that mattered really didn't matter at all. And then you get to realize that any love you felt was just a biological impulse to procreate, and the love you have for your kids is programmed into you so you don't kill them as infants because they annoy you.

No, I don't believe in that world. You can have it, if it makes you happy, but I won't.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

How is it a punishment?

If you do something wrong, you suffer the karma of your consequences. They sined. They had consequences.

They were punished for their sining. I dont understand what you mean? That seems simple.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

But that still doesn't constitute a choice. A choice "either this or that." Not "either this or this."

This or that doesnt need to be black and white. Not all good things come from opposites.

 

[Buttercup]

Hell isn't what I'm afraid of, It's life. More specifically, A meaningless life. Because you can have nice feelings, and have kids, and live your life and then die but your life will have meant nothing. Your feelings would have meant nothing, and everything you suffered, everything you worked for, everything that mattered really didn't matter at all. And then you get to realize that any love you felt was just a biological impulse to procreate, and the love you have for your kids is programmed into you so you don't kill them as infants because they annoy you.

No, I don't believe in that world. You can have it, if it makes you happy, but I won't.

I have no clue as to what world you're talking about. My world isn't anything close to what you've described. I agree though, who'd want to live there?

 

[Deathbydefault]

Because no other God is real to me. Allah is harsh, Yahweh is strict and Jehovah is desperate.
But God, my God, the God that could be any one of those, all of them or none of them. He is, and even though I don't know Him very well I will still spend my life trying too.

And I think most of the time humans can see whatever they want to see in whatever they want to see it in.

My head is a constant wave of voices from the second I wake up to the second I go to sleep.
One of these belongs to who I was, a 'crying child' if you will.
That part of me would agree with you, if it could form words anymore.
Your viewpoint is something I had when I was quite young (maybe more thought out, though.)

Thanks for sharing, I'll let this thread get a bit more back on topic.

 

[Thana]

I have no clue as to what world you're talking about. My world isn't anything close to what you've described. I agree though, who'd want to live there?

That's reality.
That's why I have to be a Theist. Because I don't ignore reality.

 

[Buttercup]

That's reality.
That's why I have to be a Theist. Because I don't ignore reality.

Oh. So now you're the omniscient one.