Thana
Lady
I'm not sure I understand,
What are you trying to say was not perfect about them?
And if you want to talk about outside influence I'd think the snake would qualify.
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How Do Christians Reconcile The Following Question Regarding Their Faith?
- Thread starter Buttercup
- Start date
I'm not sure I understand,
What are you trying to say was not perfect about them?
And if you want to talk about outside influence I'd think the snake would qualify.
Buttercup
Veteran Member
I guess at this point, I can confidently assume that you believe God designed men and women with the capacity to murder and you find that design "perfect".
I don't agree in the least, even with a free-will card thrown onto the table to compensate for bad design. Bad design, is bad design. Humans need a mass recall.
Thanks for answering the question though. We'll just have to leave it here.
Thana
Lady
I guess at this point, I can confidently assume that you believe God designed men and women with the capacity to murder and you find that design "perfect".
I don't agree in the least, even with a free-will card thrown onto the table to compensate for bad design. Bad design, is bad design. Humans need a mass recall.
Thanks for answering the question though. We'll just have to leave it here.
I think you've misunderstood, Humans weren't designed that way. Adam and Eve weren't designed that way. We became that way, is what my post and point was.
But that's fine, I don't mind stopping, I just wanted to clarify.
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
No. I have lots of evidence to convince me that God exists. You simply arrive at different conclusions based on the same evidence. There is no superiority in belief or disbelief. It doesn't matter if you accept the evidence or my conclusions. Brow beat me all you like. I can be just as obstinate and intractable as you. It's one of the aspects of faith we both display.
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Sleeppy
Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Knowledge of the inevitable ≠ Knowledge of the preventable. @Buttercup
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Wasn't the snake designed by God, too?
InChrist
Free4ever
I think the problem with your OP question and perspective is that that you are looking at things with a very limited, finite viewpoint. I believe God's purpose in creating human beings is to have those who desire (freely choose) live with Him in eternal relationship and joy. This earth, including the murders and all the bad things you mentioned, are temporal, but with eternal consequences for which each person will give an account. God is love so He cannot create beings who really love Him ....with force or not allowing for freewill. Heaven will be utopia, but it will be so because all those there chose to live in harmony with God, not because they were forced or their will is somehow eliminated. This temporal earth is the time and place where each person makes choices which impact their eternal destiny. Earth and the conditions brought about by human sinfulness are temporary because God's plan was the design of eternal beings, some will pay for their sins and some will be forgiven. by accepting God's love and grace.
Buttercup
Veteran Member
You can't become "something" unless you're designed and have the capacity to become "that".
Thana
Lady
The Angel was designed by God. The snake was, I imagine, another product of free will.
Buttercup
Veteran Member
With all due respect, you may have missed the first line of my OP where it says that I was a Christian and I believed as you do for quite some time. So, I'm very acquainted with what you've just said.
A question for you regarding this quote, if you're open to answering.....
"God is love so He cannot create beings who really love Him ....with force or not allowing for freewill. Heaven will be utopia, but it will be so because all those there chose to live in harmony with God, not because they were forced or their will is somehow eliminated."
Did the little girl I mention in post #42 get to choose to live in harmony with God?
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Buttercup
Veteran Member
Wait. Free will now creates things?
Thana
Lady
Buttercup
Veteran Member
Oh, dear. I think our bible translations are vastly different.
Whose free will?
The point I'm getting at is that if it can all be traced back to God's design either directly or indirectly, then either:
- God's design is imperfect
- God's design is as intended (IOW, all the problems that Buttercup listed in the OP were deliberately put in place by God)
Thana
Lady
Oh, dear. I think our bible translations are vastly different.
Is it not common knowledge that the Angel was the snake?
I'm not sure it's your translation...
Buttercup
Veteran Member
We're getting off topic here and I don't have a Bible around anymore, but if you're willing to supply us with the verse, I'd be interested to read it. I don't recall ever having read that the angel and the snake were one and the same entity.
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Thana
Lady
Genesis and Revelations are... a chore. I'd rather not have to go digging through them. But Revelations 12:9 and 20 should be able to start you off.
InChrist
Free4ever
Little children whose physical lives are cut short before they reach an age of understanding go directly to heaven and live with God forever.
You must be a fan of Andrea Yates, then.
InChrist
Free4ever
It is one thing to be say you once believed as I do or claim you were once a Christian, but the fact is many claim to have been Christian who really never were. According to the scriptures a Christian is one who has been born again to new life in Christ. The old has passed away and the Christian is a new creation. So you may have gone to church, had a "Christian" family or adhered to certain beliefs for a time , but that does not mean you ever were a Christian because a new creation in Christ who has been born again with life from above cannot be ...unborn. So you may have the head knowledge of Christianity as a religion, but that is a far cry from knowing God personally by the Spirit.