Should Christians follow the Law?

[NathanShepard8888]

Your righteousness is righteousness forever; and your law is true. Psalm 119:142

For my hope is in your rules. Psalms 119:43

So shall I keep Your law continually, forever and ever. And I will walk at liberty, for I seek your precepts. Psalms 119:44-45

Mainstream doctrine says God freed us from freedom.

The law of Yahweh is perfect, reviving the soul; Psalms 19:7

Can perfect be made more perfect? Mainstream doctrine teaches Gods law changed.

There is a reason God says I am against the Shepherds in the last days.

Thus says Yahweh "Behold, I am against the Shepherds, and will require My flock at their hand."
Ezekiel 34:10

For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to GOD, for it does not submit to God's law. Romans 8:7

And I will put my Spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statues and be careful to obey my rules. Ezekiel 37:38.

Yeshua is the Word in the flesh John 1:14. The Word of God Revelation 29:13.The same forever. Revelation 19:13 The Word does not change. Isaiah 40:8That means he cannot change. Yeshua is a walking Bible.

Yeshua said, "You have a fine of setting aside the commandments of God in order to observe your own traditions. For Moses said..." Mark 7:8

Yeshua said it is wrong to nullify what Moses wrote. He taught obedience to what Moses wrote. Is what was right now wrong. Is what was wrong now right?

Yeshua said "Has not Moses given you the law. Yet not one of you keeps the law." John 7:19

Yeshua said, "The teachers of the law sit in Moses seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. Matthew 23:2

Yeshua said, "Do not think I came to abolish the law or the prophets. I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you until heaven and earth pass away not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one on the least of the commandments and teaches others to do the same shall be called the least. Matthew 5:17

Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven but he who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me in that day "Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in your name cast out demons in your name and dine many wonders in your name?" And then I will declare to them, " I never knew you; depart from me you who practice lawlessness. Matthew 7:1

For if we sin willfully after we have received knowledge of the truth there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins but a certwin fearful expectation of judgment and firey indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has re ejected Moses law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Hebrew's 10:26

Thus also faith by itself if it does not have works is dead. James 2:17

For as the body without the spirit is dead so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26

 

[Thana]

Nope.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Your righteousness is righteousness forever; and your law is true. Psalm 119:142

For my hope is in your rules. Psalms 119:43

So shall I keep Your law continually, forever and ever. And I will walk at liberty, for I seek your precepts. Psalms 119:44-45

Mainstream doctrine says God freed us from freedom.

The law of Yahweh is perfect, reviving the soul; Psalms 19:7

Can perfect be made more perfect? Mainstream doctrine teaches Gods law changed.

There is a reason God says I am against the Shepherds in the last days.

Thus says Yahweh "Behold, I am against the Shepherds, and will require My flock at their hand."
Ezekiel 34:10

For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to GOD, for it does not submit to God's law. Romans 8:7

And I will put my Spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statues and be careful to obey my rules. Ezekiel 37:38.

Yeshua is the Word in the flesh John 1:14. The Word of God Revelation 29:13.The same forever. Revelation 19:13 The Word does not change. Isaiah 40:8That means he cannot change. Yeshua is a walking Bible.

Yeshua said, "You have a fine of setting aside the commandments of God in order to observe your own traditions. For Moses said..." Mark 7:8

Yeshua said it is wrong to nullify what Moses wrote. He taught obedience to what Moses wrote. Is what was right now wrong. Is what was wrong now right?

Yeshua said "Has not Moses given you the law. Yet not one of you keeps the law." John 7:19

Yeshua said, "The teachers of the law sit in Moses seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. Matthew 23:2

Yeshua said, "Do not think I came to abolish the law or the prophets. I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you until heaven and earth pass away not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one on the least of the commandments and teaches others to do the same shall be called the least. Matthew 5:17

Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven but he who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me in that day "Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in your name cast out demons in your name and dine many wonders in your name?" And then I will declare to them, " I never knew you; depart from me you who practice lawlessness. Matthew 7:1

For if we sin willfully after we have received knowledge of the truth there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins but a certwin fearful expectation of judgment and firey indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has re ejected Moses law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Hebrew's 10:26

Thus also faith by itself if it does not have works is dead. James 2:17

For as the body without the spirit is dead so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26

To be perfectly honest, yes, they should. If a Jew can do it to the best of his ability; and, he too, is following the god of Abraham, so can a Christian. That doesn't belittle his faith in Christ. Christ just said don't use traditions as idols to himself. If Christians do not do this and use traditions as a correspondence to their worship, I see no problem with it.

 

[David1967]

Did Jesus follow the Torah?

 

[NathanShepard8888]

Did Jesus follow the Torah?

eshua said "Has not Moses given you the law. Yet not one of you keeps the law." John 7:19

Yeshua said, "The teachers of the law sit in Moses seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. Matthew 23:2

 

[David1967]

eshua said "Has not Moses given you the law. Yet not one of you keeps the law." John 7:19

Yeshua said, "The teachers of the law sit in Moses seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. Matthew 23:2

Then if it was good enough for Jesus, I would say it is good enough for those who follow Him.

 

[George-ananda]

Should Christians follow the Torah.

A strong 'No' vote from me. It was intended for Jews of another millennia.

 

[NathanShepard8888]

Should Christians follow the Torah.

A strong 'No' vote from me. It was intended for Jews of another millennia.

How was it intended for jews.

Leviticus 24:22 You shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God.

The same law applies to foreigners as well as jews.

 

[rosends]

How was it intended for jews.

Leviticus 24:22 You shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God.

The same law applies to foreigners as well as jews.

Actually, Jews translate the word in that verse not as "stranger" but as "convert." So the text was intended for natural born and converted Jews. If you say that the text doesn't mean that (from outside of the Jewish perspective) then you can come to whatever conclusion you want. But as the text was given to the Jews, it would be a tad presumptuous (IMHO) to tell Jews what the text actually means.

 

[roger1440]

Actually, Jews translate the word in that verse not as "stranger" but as "convert." So the text was intended for natural born and converted Jews. If you say that the text doesn't mean that (from outside of the Jewish perspective) then you can come to whatever conclusion you want. But as the text was given to the Jews, it would be a tad presumptuous (IMHO) to tell Jews what the text actually means.

The Jewish Study Bible translates the verse as:

"You shall have one standard for stranger and citizen alike: for I the LoRD am your God."

There is no study note on that verse, so I can't comment on it.

 

[roger1440]

Did Jesus follow the Torah?

The written Law, yes. Then again, Jesus was a Jew and Christians aint.

 

[rosends]

The Jewish Study Bible translates the verse as:

"You shall have one standard for stranger and citizen alike: for I the LoRD am your God."

There is no study note on that verse, so I can't comment on it.

Yeah, that uses the JPS which is not especially useful.

try this
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9925

"22One law shall be exacted for you, convert and resident alike, for I am the Lord, your God."
I can dig up all the commentaries if you would like.

 

[roger1440]

Yeah, that uses the JPS which is not especially useful.

try this
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9925

Judging from that verse alone

“One law shall be exacted for you, convert and resident alike, for I am the Lord, your God."

There is one Law, which is the Mosaic Law. This one law applies to natural born Jews, those who have converted to Judaism and people residing with Jews. Is that what the verse means?

I can dig up all the commentaries if you would like.

Yeah, that would be helpful. It's easy to find commentaries on Christian text, but then again Christians probably out number Jews 1000 to 1.

 

[rosends]

Judging from that verse alone

“One law shall be exacted for you, convert and resident alike, for I am the Lord, your God."

There is one Law, which is the Mosaic Law. This one law applies to natural born Jews, those who have converted to Judaism and people residing with Jews. Is that what the verse means?

Yeah, that would be helpful. It's easy to find commentaries on Christian text, but then again Christians probably out number Jews 1000 to 1.

Here is what R. Shlomo Yitzchaki said about 1000 years ago:

"I am the Lord your God: the God of all of you. Just as I attach My Name uniquely upon you [native Jewish people], so do I attach it uniquely upon the converts [to Judaism]."

In fact the Ohr Hachaim points out that the precise wording is "like the convert, like the resident" and not "the convert like the resident" as that would create the appearance of a gradation separating the two. By using the same construction, the text fully equates the two.
The term "ger" which we call "convert" often refers to a ger toshav -- a resident alien, sometimes means an outsider (such as Gen 15:13) and often means a convert -- such as in Lev 24:16. There the sforno points out that the two are equivalent under the law.

 

[roger1440]

Here is what R. Shlomo Yitzchaki said about 1000 years ago:

"I am the Lord your God: the God of all of you. Just as I attach My Name uniquely upon you [native Jewish people], so do I attach it uniquely upon the converts [to Judaism]."

In fact the Ohr Hachaim points out that the precise wording is "like the convert, like the resident" and not "the convert like the resident" as that would create the appearance of a gradation separating the two. By using the same construction, the text fully equates the two.
The term "ger" which we call "convert" often refers to a ger toshav -- a resident alien, sometimes means an outsider (such as Gen 15:13) and often means a convert -- such as in Lev 24:16. There the sforno points out that the two are equivalent under the law.

I don't understand what that means. What about the " resident"? How does he fit in?

 

[rosends]

I don't understand what that means. What about the " resident"? How does he fit in?

the English word "resident" is used by different translations to stand in for the Hebrew Ezrach (as it does in the Lev 24 passages) and "toshav". It means a citizen in either case. So the law is for the convert and the born-citizen, and when someone is a ger toshav, or a "resident" alien, it means a non-Jew who is bound by certain elements of Jewish law.

 

[roger1440]

the English word "resident" is used by different translations to stand in for the Hebrew Ezrach (as it does in the Lev 24 passages) and "toshav". It means a citizen in either case. So the law is for the convert and the born-citizen, and when someone is a ger toshav, or a "resident" alien, it means a non-Jew who is bound by certain elements of Jewish law.

The "certain elements" are they Noahide Laws, right?

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/The_Seven_Noahide_Laws.html

 

[Brickjectivity]

Scripturally speaking I think that Galatians may throw a wrench into the idea unless you can either discard Galatians or by way of explanation show that it is consistent with what you are saying.

• "I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being." Galatians 1:14-15
  
• “We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith infn Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified. Galatians 2:15-16

Galatians, which is included with every NT sold, makes several problematic statements for you. How do you deal with it?

 

[NathanShepard8888]

Scripturally speaking I think that Galatians may throw a wrench into the idea unless you can either discard Galatians or by way of explanation show that it is consistent with what you are saying.

• "I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being." Galatians 1:14-15
  
• “We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith infn Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified. Galatians 2:15-16

Galatians, which is included with every NT sold, makes several problematic statements for you. How do you deal with it?

Obedience to the law is evidence of faith.

Faith without works is dead.

Traditions are not the a Torah.
Jesus said,"Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that."MArk 7:13

 

[rosends]

The "certain elements" are they Noahide Laws, right?

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/The_Seven_Noahide_Laws.html

at least. Check the wiki page -- there are some other opinions.