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The trinity?????

A

anonymous9887

bible reader
If you are a trinitarian I have a question for you.
We know that God knows all things, is all powerful, and is eternal.

I also know that all 3 persons of the trinity are fully god meaning they all have these attributes that make them fully god.
according to matthew 24:36 "only the father knows the day and the hour"
I can understand jesus had 2 natures, but if the holy spirit is god, why does he not know the day or the hour if he did not take on flesh?
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
2000px-Shield-Trinity-Scutum-Fidei-English.svg.jpg



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Sees

Sees

Dragonslayer
Paul Chavez said:
If you are a trinitarian I have a question for you.
We know that God knows all things, is all powerful, and is eternal.

I also know that all 3 persons of the trinity are fully god meaning they all have these attributes that make them fully god.
according to matthew 24:36 "only the father knows the day and the hour"
I can understand jesus had 2 natures, but if the holy spirit is god, why does he not know the day or the hour if he did not take on flesh?
Click to expand...

Paul Chavez said:
Exactly because the trinity is a false teaching.
Click to expand...

Is this a personal conversation? :confused:
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Paul Chavez said:
If you are a trinitarian I have a question for you.
We know that God knows all things, is all powerful, and is eternal.

I also know that all 3 persons of the trinity are fully god meaning they all have these attributes that make them fully god.
according to matthew 24:36 "only the father knows the day and the hour"
I can understand jesus had 2 natures, but if the holy spirit is god, why does he not know the day or the hour if he did not take on flesh?
Click to expand...

This is how I reconciled it.

God is not an entity but a pronoun describing love, grace, passion in some faiths to object or person of devotion in multiple others. It's not a concecrete word for addressing one "Person" in Christianity. It's a way to describe these persons within the trinity.

As such, the Father is the Creator in Christianity. Father being Father of the world and so forth. He has one nature (as said above), love, grace, and all that. So He is God.

Jesus Christ is the Son, the Savior in Christianity. The son being the Word from His Father. The Son has one nature in His Father because He is the Word. Sharing that nature of His Father makes Him God as well.

The Holy Spirit didn't "exist" until after Jesus was Baptized. It didn't take affect until Acts, I believe. Since the Spirit is what drives life, the only place that that spirit can come from is The Father. So when Jesus was baptized, the Father sent his spirit to decend upon his son. The apostles received the gift of the holy spirit in acts to preach the gospel. Since the Spirit comes from the Father and sent through Christ, the Holy Spirit, too is God.

God meaning one word that describes a full collection of Who the Father, Son, and Spirit are.

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
 
A

anonymous9887

bible reader
Carlita said:
This is how I reconciled it.

God is not an entity but a pronoun describing love, grace, passion in some faiths to object or person of devotion in multiple others. It's not a concecrete word for addressing one "Person" in Christianity. It's a way to describe these persons within the trinity.

As such, the Father is the Creator in Christianity. Father being Father of the world and so forth. He has one nature (as said above), love, grace, and all that. So He is God.

Jesus Christ is the Son, the Savior in Christianity. The son being the Word from His Father. The Son has one nature in His Father because He is the Word. Sharing that nature of His Father makes Him God as well.

The Holy Spirit didn't "exist" until after Jesus was Baptized. It didn't take affect until Acts, I believe. Since the Spirit is what drives life, the only place that that spirit can come from is The Father. So when Jesus was baptized, the Father sent his spirit to decend upon his son. The apostles received the gift of the holy spirit in acts to preach the gospel. Since the Spirit comes from the Father and sent through Christ, the Holy Spirit, too is God.

God meaning one word that describes a full collection of Who the Father, Son, and Spirit are.
Click to expand...
Actually no the holy spirit is mentioned throughout the Hebrew scriptures genesis 1:2
 
A

anonymous9887

bible reader
Carlita said:
Regardless, the Holy Spirit still have the same nature of the Father and Son, that makes all three God.
Click to expand...
How if god knows all things, but in matthew 24:36 it says only the father knows. What about Jesus and the holy spirit, if they are fully god then they should know all things, since god knows all things
 
Saint Frankenstein

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Paul Chavez said:
What does the words only the father mean?
Click to expand...

Paul Chavez said:
When he says only the father knows the day and the hour, is this statement true or false
Click to expand...
He was speaking from a human perspective, as I said.

This message board post explains it very well:
"Yes, I belive it was the opinion of the ECF that in His humanity, Jesus did not know. Not that he couldn't know mind you. Jesus' humanity and divinity were perfectly substantially united in one Person. However, since the Son took to Himself a human nature, that nature had to learn through experimentation like we do. He had to ask for the name of one of the Apostles when He met him for the first time for example. He could have chosen to know that Apostle's name but chose not to without inquiring. So, we know one thing from Scripture that cannot be ascertained is the date of the Day of Judgment. If Jesus' humanity didn't find the date we sure won't. But here we have a beautiful mystery. Jesus so humbled Himself by becoming man that He didn't even allow Himself information He had right to without the Father's permission. As the Holy Spirit, speaks only what He hears, so does the Son."

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=818692
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Paul Chavez said:
How if god knows all things, but in matthew 24:36 it says only the father knows. What about Jesus and the holy spirit, if they are fully god then they should know all things, since god knows all things
Click to expand...

Dont think you're getting the language/grammar boundry here.

God is not an entity.

There are three distinct people in Christianity: The Father. The Son. The Holy Spirit.

Each Person of this trinity has One nature. That One nature is a collection of love, grace, and all that.

In Christianity: Only the Father, the Son, and The Holy Spirit has these characteristics.

These characteristics make them God.

--This might help-- This is your quote. My marks in blue"

"How if Jesus knows all things, but in matthew 24:36 it says only the Father knows. What about Jesus and the holy spirit, if they are fully One Person then they should know all things, since Creator knows all things"

If Jesus knows all things, then He would knows what His Father does. In NT, that is not the case. Jesus and the Father do not know the same thing. (I do not know the time and hour; why go to me, go to my Father; and so forth). The Holy Spirit came from Jesus. The Spirit doesn't have flesh nor does the Father. Jesus is distinct in that he is flesh as well as spirit.

They are fully one Person as in one nature not One entity. Key point there.

One Nature not One Entity.

Nature=God
Entity=Father

Edit: The Father and the word God is used interchangably. So, take the word God out and refer to each person directly. They still have the same nature..just you wont get mixed up with them being one person if you refer to them individually instead.
 
A

anonymous9887

bible reader
[QUO TE="Saint Frankenstein, post: 4.526511 , member: 36975 "]He was speaking from a human perspective, as I said.

This message board post explains it very well:
"Yes, I belive it was the opinion of the ECF that in His humanity, Jesus did not know. Not that he couldn't know mind you. Jesus' humanity and divinity were perfectly substantially united in one Person. However, since the Son took to Himself a human nature, that nature had to learn through experimentation like we do. He had to ask for the name of one of the Apostles when He met him for the first time for example. He could have chosen to know that Apostle's name but chose not to without inquiring. So, we know one thing from Scripture that cannot be ascertained is the date of the Day of Judgment. If Jesus' humanity didn't find the date we sure won't. But here we have a beautiful mystery. Jesus so humbled Himself by becoming man that He didn't even allow Himself information He had right to without the Father's permission. As the Holy Spirit, speaks only what He hears, so does the Son."

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=818692[/QUOTE]
That explains why jesus didn't know. what about the holy spirit?
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
@Paul Chavez

Everywhere you find the word god in scripture or even on RF, replace it with Creator, Son, or Spirit. If you can find what that word is refering to then you know it's (the word god) is an adjective to describe one nature of three distinct individuals/persons.
 
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