• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Why doesn't ISIS get along with other Islamic governments?

ronki23

Well-Known Member
Is there a reason ISIS does not get along with Hamas or the Taliban?

Do ISIS and Al Qaeda follow Qutbism or Salaafism (I don't understand the difference)? Because I thought they WOULD get along for that reason.

And Hamas is anti-Israel while the Taliban is about strict, orthodox Islam so why don't ISIS like either
 

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
Is there a reason ISIS does not get along with Hamas or the Taliban?

Do ISIS and Al Qaeda follow Qutbism or Salaafism (I don't understand the difference)? Because I thought they WOULD get along for that reason.

And Hamas is anti-Israel while the Taliban is about strict, orthodox Islam so why don't ISIS like either
Peace be on you.
Useful info. Plz sift through
isis taliban hamas buku haram salafi qutbism - Google Search
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Is there a reason ISIS does not get along with Hamas or the Taliban?

Do ISIS and Al Qaeda follow Qutbism or Salaafism (I don't understand the difference)? Because I thought they WOULD get along for that reason.

And Hamas is anti-Israel while the Taliban is about strict, orthodox Islam so why don't ISIS like either

ISIS follows a strict and twisted form Islamic eschatology and salafism to the point that anyone that does not follow them under the state or join them is not a Muslim. Since the groups used as examples follow their own political organization rather than the one ISIS demands they are not true Muslims under this narrow scope.
 

ronki23

Well-Known Member
ISIS follows a strict and twisted form Islamic eschatology and salafism to the point that anyone that does not follow them under the state or join them is not a Muslim. Since the groups used as examples follow their own political organization rather than the one ISIS demands they are not true Muslims under this narrow scope.

But why doesn't ISIS get along with the Taliban as they too adhere to Salafism don't they?

I saw ISIS and Al Qaeda are at odds with one another even though Al Qaeda are Qutbist. I do not know the difference between Qutbism and Salafism
 

Shad

Veteran Member
But why doesn't ISIS get along with the Taliban as they too adhere to Salafism don't they?

I saw ISIS and Al Qaeda are at odds with one another even though Al Qaeda are Qutbist. I do not know the difference between Qutbism and Salafism

Taliban does not acknowledge ISIS as its political leader or the "true" leaders of the Ummah. Even different forms of Salafism ISIS stills sees bid‘ah in each group. It a "my way or the highway" mentality
 

Kirran

Premium Member
Actually many groups within the Pakistani Taliban have declared allegiance to IS.

Al-Qaeda, on the other hand, opposes Wahhabism, but is Salafi, while IS is Wahhabist.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Actually many groups within the Pakistani Taliban have declared allegiance to IS.

Al-Qaeda, on the other hand, opposes Wahhabism, but is Salafi, while IS is Wahhabist.

Didn't know that. These groups are so dispersed that it is hard for me to accept that the label "Taliban" represents a larger group rather than a small independent groups with no real ties besides a label.

Wahabism is a form of Salafism, it claim to be the true form of Salafism.
 

Kirran

Premium Member
Didn't know that. These groups are so dispersed that it is hard for me to accept that the label "Taliban" represents a larger group rather than a small independent groups with no real ties besides a label.

I think it is a much broader tent that Al-Qaeda.

Wahabism is a form of Salafism, it claim to be the true form of Salafism.

And Salafism claims to be the true form of Islam :D
 

Paranoid Android

Active Member
Is there a reason ISIS does not get along with Hamas or the Taliban?

Do ISIS and Al Qaeda follow Qutbism or Salaafism (I don't understand the difference)? Because I thought they WOULD get along for that reason.

And Hamas is anti-Israel while the Taliban is about strict, orthodox Islam so why don't ISIS like either[/QUOTE

Well, you can ignore my answer. Please ignore it if it makes you upset.

There possessed by Satan. Therefore, they will be defeated.
 

ronki23

Well-Known Member
Actually many groups within the Pakistani Taliban have declared allegiance to IS.

Al-Qaeda, on the other hand, opposes Wahhabism, but is Salafi, while IS is Wahhabist.
Didn't know that. These groups are so dispersed that it is hard for me to accept that the label "Taliban" represents a larger group rather than a small independent groups with no real ties besides a label.

Wahabism is a form of Salafism, it claim to be the true form of Salafism.

But Al Qaeda (or bin Laden and Zawahiri) follow Qutbism

I thought it was like so:

Al Qaeda: Qutbist
ISIS: Salafi
Saudi Royal Family: Secular people ruling a Wahabbi country
 

Shad

Veteran Member
But Al Qaeda (or bin Laden and Zawahiri) follow Qutbism

I was talking about the Taliban in that last post.

Qutbism is still a form of Salafism. A subset ideology is the dividing line between traditionalist and peaceful groups and the violent groups.


I thought it was like so:

Al Qaeda: Qutbist
ISIS: Salafi
Saudi Royal Family: Secular people ruling a Wahabbi country

All 3 are follow a form of Salafism. KSA is just not as overtly violent as the other two groups.
 

Pastek

Sunni muslim
Is there a reason ISIS does not get along with Hamas or the Taliban?

Do ISIS and Al Qaeda follow Qutbism or Salaafism (I don't understand the difference)? Because I thought they WOULD get along for that reason.

And Hamas is anti-Israel while the Taliban is about strict, orthodox Islam so why don't ISIS like either

Because it's often like that, look at the past :


The Armed Islamic Group (GIA) was one of the two main Islamist insurgents groups that fought the Algerian government and army in the Algerian Civil War.
The Islamic Salvation Front (FIS) was an Islamist political party in Algeria.


Between 1992 and 1998, the GIA conducted a violent campaign of civilian massacres, sometimes wiping out entire villages in its area of operation.

Reports of battles between the AIS (armed branch of the FIS) and GIA increased (resulting in an estimated 60 deaths in March 1995 alone), and the GIA reiterated its death threats against FIS and AIS leaders, claiming to be the "sole prosecutor of jihad" and angered by their attempts to negotiate a settlement with the government.

During the 1995 election, the GIA threatened to kill anyone who voted (using the slogan "one vote, one bullet"), but turnout was high among the pious middle class.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_Islamic_Group_of_Algeria
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Salvation_Front

The war has been referred to as `the dirty war’ and was notable for "unspeakable brutality"and "unbelievable savagery and violence" in attacks on civilians.

They formed themselves into armed groups, principally the Islamic Armed Movement (MIA), based primarily in the mountains, and the more hard-line Armed Islamic Group (GIA), based primarily in the towns. The GIA motto was "no agreement, no truce, no dialogue" and declared war on the FIS in 1994 after it made progress in negotiations with the government.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algerian_Civil_War

Daesh (or Abu Bakar al Baghdadi) wasn't elected by anyone.
Daesh kills muslims and non muslims in a barbaric way .
Daesh forces people to be muslims or they are killed, exiled or slaves.
Daesh wants to create a world caliphate.
Daesh is against any politic movements and against monarchies.

I think it has nothing to do with Hamas.

As for the other groups, any of them want to loose their power/influence.
 

ronki23

Well-Known Member
Because it's often like that, look at the past :


The Armed Islamic Group (GIA) was one of the two main Islamist insurgents groups that fought the Algerian government and army in the Algerian Civil War.
The Islamic Salvation Front (FIS) was an Islamist political party in Algeria.


Between 1992 and 1998, the GIA conducted a violent campaign of civilian massacres, sometimes wiping out entire villages in its area of operation.

Reports of battles between the AIS (armed branch of the FIS) and GIA increased (resulting in an estimated 60 deaths in March 1995 alone), and the GIA reiterated its death threats against FIS and AIS leaders, claiming to be the "sole prosecutor of jihad" and angered by their attempts to negotiate a settlement with the government.

During the 1995 election, the GIA threatened to kill anyone who voted (using the slogan "one vote, one bullet"), but turnout was high among the pious middle class.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_Islamic_Group_of_Algeria
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Salvation_Front

The war has been referred to as `the dirty war’ and was notable for "unspeakable brutality"and "unbelievable savagery and violence" in attacks on civilians.

They formed themselves into armed groups, principally the Islamic Armed Movement (MIA), based primarily in the mountains, and the more hard-line Armed Islamic Group (GIA), based primarily in the towns. The GIA motto was "no agreement, no truce, no dialogue" and declared war on the FIS in 1994 after it made progress in negotiations with the government.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algerian_Civil_War

Daesh (or Abu Bakar al Baghdadi) wasn't elected by anyone.
Daesh kills muslims and non muslims in a barbaric way .
Daesh forces people to be muslims or they are killed, exiled or slaves.
Daesh wants to create a world caliphate.
Daesh is against any politic movements and against monarchies.

I think it has nothing to do with Hamas.

As for the other groups, any of them want to loose their power/influence.

Are you implying they are evil so are not really bothered about those with similar views? What about the age old-motto of 'united in strength'

and aren't good and evil merely points of view?
 

ronki23

Well-Known Member
I was talking about the Taliban in that last post.

Qutbism is still a form of Salafism. A subset ideology is the dividing line between traditionalist and peaceful groups and the violent groups.




All 3 are follow a form of Salafism. KSA is just not as overtly violent as the other two groups.

Because it's often like that, look at the past :


The Armed Islamic Group (GIA) was one of the two main Islamist insurgents groups that fought the Algerian government and army in the Algerian Civil War.
The Islamic Salvation Front (FIS) was an Islamist political party in Algeria.


Between 1992 and 1998, the GIA conducted a violent campaign of civilian massacres, sometimes wiping out entire villages in its area of operation.

Reports of battles between the AIS (armed branch of the FIS) and GIA increased (resulting in an estimated 60 deaths in March 1995 alone), and the GIA reiterated its death threats against FIS and AIS leaders, claiming to be the "sole prosecutor of jihad" and angered by their attempts to negotiate a settlement with the government.

During the 1995 election, the GIA threatened to kill anyone who voted (using the slogan "one vote, one bullet"), but turnout was high among the pious middle class.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_Islamic_Group_of_Algeria
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Salvation_Front

The war has been referred to as `the dirty war’ and was notable for "unspeakable brutality"and "unbelievable savagery and violence" in attacks on civilians.

They formed themselves into armed groups, principally the Islamic Armed Movement (MIA), based primarily in the mountains, and the more hard-line Armed Islamic Group (GIA), based primarily in the towns. The GIA motto was "no agreement, no truce, no dialogue" and declared war on the FIS in 1994 after it made progress in negotiations with the government.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algerian_Civil_War

Daesh (or Abu Bakar al Baghdadi) wasn't elected by anyone.
Daesh kills muslims and non muslims in a barbaric way .
Daesh forces people to be muslims or they are killed, exiled or slaves.
Daesh wants to create a world caliphate.
Daesh is against any politic movements and against monarchies.

I think it has nothing to do with Hamas.

As for the other groups, any of them want to loose their power/influence.

I meant Taliban although Al Qaeda gets along quite well with them as Mullah Omar married bin Laden's daughter and he himself had one of Omar's daughters as a wife right?

And aren't Hamas too a right-wing Islamist group? The West and Fatah supporters (obviously) are against them
 
But why doesn't ISIS get along with the Taliban as they too adhere to Salafism don't they?

I saw ISIS and Al Qaeda are at odds with one another even though Al Qaeda are Qutbist. I do not know the difference between Qutbism and Salafism

The Taliban aren't Salafis, they are Deobandis. The Pakistani Taliban also aren't the Taliban, they are a separate entity.

Qutbism, if it is even a word, relates to the fusion of Islamic fundamentalism with Western totalitarian concepts and ideas borrowed from the communists and Nazis. Al-Qaeda and ISIS utilise these concepts, although Qutb wasn't a Salafi.

The main reason that they don't all get along though is not primarily that they have religious differences, but that they have strategic differences.

The Taliban are basically a Religious ethno-nationalist group, rather than a transnational movement. Their concern is Pashtun power in Afghanistan.

Hamas are another nationalist group.

Al-Qaeda were a transnational terrorist group whose ultimate goals may be loosely similar to ISIS, but they have vastly different ideas about how to go about achieving them.

ISIS started off as a fundamentalist resistance movement, who became a de facto state with transnational aspirations. As they claim to be a caliphate, any Muslim who refuses to acknowledge Bagdhadi as rightful Caliph damages their claim to legitimacy, and can be declared kuffar. They also reject the concept of nation states/nationalism as an innovation.

So it is really about what each group wants to achieve and/or their strategy to achieve this, rather than narrow question of religious belief.
 

ronki23

Well-Known Member
Isis views other muslims to be apostates. They say anyone who is not follower of abu bakr al baghdadi is an apostate.

But why does ISIS have such a large following? Moreso than Al Qaeda too. Is it because Al Qaeda has been losing relevance since bin Laden was killed?

By the way, Mullah Omar was dead for 2 years but Afghanistan failed to tell everyone this (and that he was being treated in a Karachi hospital)
 
Top