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The Buddha Explains Universal Mind

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Your response to Spiny. One would think that an enlightened being would be more than able to talk to enlightenment-challenged individuals, in terms they could readily understand... and not feel a continual need to hide behind their finger.
You have got to be kidding me....do you realize how many times Spiny has questioned me on this subject....we've been going around in circles from the beginning and as soon as I get him close to seeing his own blind spot...he opts out.. This is not unusual....it's an ego thing....but we are here to learn so I do my best to help....
Btw, you know I have never claimed enlightenment...but I do know that it is possible to still the mind....and so when I use the word non-duality....I am not using it as a purely speculative or theoretical reality..
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
You have got to be kidding me....do you realize how many times Spiny has questioned me on this subject....we've been going around in circles from the beginning and as soon as I get him close to seeing his own blind spot...he opts out.. This is not unusual....it's an ego thing....but we are here to learn so I do my best to help....
And yet whenever he or I point out a weakness in your thinking the defenses go to Defcon 3 rather rapidly. It would seem to be a genuine ego thing... ...not exactly supportive of the fanciful blather about a universal consciousness. Fat lot of good it seems to be when the chips are down.

Btw, you know I have never claimed enlightenment...
No, but you ride up close enough to the edge to lead to one to wonder. You are, of course, the only one here to make it through the "gateless gate"... or summin'...

but I do know that it is possible to still the mind....
Child's play, really. Almost anyone can learn to do it in a fairly short time.

and so when I use the word non-duality....I am not using it as a purely speculative or theoretical reality..
I know, Ben. It's just the speculations and assumptions you make about it that puzzle me so... My experience of non-duality bears little resemblance to that of yours, GodNotGod and others in this thread and so I am quite skeptical of this notion of "universal" anything.
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
I know, Ben. It's just the speculations and assumptions you make about it that puzzle me so... My experience of non-duality bears little resemblance to that of yours, GodNotGod and others in this thread and so I am quite skeptical of this notion of "universal" anything.
Ok...I'll go slowly as this is the same blind spot that Spiny has.... So let's begin with the concept 'non-dual'.......what does it mean to you?
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
No, 'self-view' is a dual view, as it implies 'self and other'. Universal view does not discriminate, and so it is 'no particular view'. But to say 'no self-view' is to imply 'universal view'. There is no other choice.

The drop of sea water returning to the sea no longer has a 'self' identity as a single drop; it is now the vast limitless ocean itself.


I can't believe you call yourself a Buddhist and don't understand these basic ideas. Now I see why Theravada is called a 'stagnant backwater'.
Actually, now that I think about it, "Universal View" is an "Abstract Particular," which is not the same as "no particular view." "No particualr view" would be agnostic. The assertion of "Universal View" is firmly in the gnostic camp.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It's funny how the notion of universalism is regarded as being nondiscrimintory and void of quality when in fact it actually makes the suggestion by which a contrast is being made to bring out the term itself in the first place
Go figure. ;0]

Non dualism additionally by way of meaning, remains common yet wordless, and can be experienced and understood through the very act of walking to a chair, sitting down, and then getting up and walking away.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Ok...I'll go slowly as this is the same blind spot that Spiny has.... So let's begin with the concept 'non-dual'.......what does it mean to you?
Non-dual, by default, means not dual... or not of this world... or subject/object boundaries are transcended... or subject/object boundaries are clearly understood and recognized for what they are.
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
It's funny how the notion of universalism is regarded as being nondiscrimintory and void of quality when in fact it actually makes the suggestion by which a contrast is being made to bring out the term itself in the first place
Go figure. ;0]

Non dualism additionally by way of meaning, remains common yet wordless, and can be experienced and understood through the very act of walking to a chair, sitting down, and then getting up and walking away.
Not really....your understanding of the meaning of non-duality in the context of religion is in serious error....
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Non-dual, by default, means not dual... or not of this world... or subject/object boundaries are transcended... or subject/object boundaries are clearly understood.
Non-dual in the religious context means unity....no out of this world or in the world, no subject or object, no seer or seen, no inner or outer, no here or there, no past or future, no god or not god, no I or not I, no you or not you....got the picture?
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
No...non-duality or oneness can only mean the absence of duality...pure unity...one without a second...
Nonduality means "not two" or "no preference." You let go of like and dislike. (not two) Reality is then unbiased by attachment or aversion. Nondual does not mean One. It means "not two." (See the Ch'an Hsin Hsin Ming)
some snippets:
The Great Way is not difficult, for those who have no preferences.
Let go of longing and aversion, and it reveals itself.
Make the smallest distinction, however, and you are as far from it as heaven is from earth.
If you want to realize the truth, then hold no opinions for or against anything.
Like and dislike is the disease of the mind.
When the deep meaning (of the Way) is not understood the intrinsic peace of mind is disturbed.

<...>

Although all dualities arise from the One, do not cling even to this One.
 

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
Non dualism additionally by way of meaning, remains common yet wordless, and can be experienced and understood through the very act of walking to a chair, sitting down, and then getting up and walking away.

Indeed, it's actually a very ordinary experience which is revealed by the practice of mindfulness. I remain puzzled by these attempts to reify it and mystify it by adding bucket loads of metaphysical clap-trap.
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
Though true for a drop of water, which is a rather large collection of water molecules, it is simply false from the standpoint of the individual water molecule. The molecule remains a molecule that is a small part of a much larger whole. A subtle, but important, difference.

Oh, is it? Let's travel further down into the subatomic world, where all of the mass of the atom is constantly being created and recreated by fluctuations in the Quantum and Higgs fields as virtual mass. As virtual mass, it means that all 'physical' reality is virtual reality.

But the point of the metaphor is that, like the drop of water, we have no real individual identity as the self. What we call 'self' is a collection of past experiences, images, titles, achievements, etc. that we freeze into a concoction we think is our 'self', when, in fact, it is pure illusion. Only the consciousness behind the mask of the self is real. It is not born; it does not die. It is outside of time or space. That is its nature.
 

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
But the point of the metaphor is that, like the drop of water, we have no real individual identity as the self. What we call 'self' is a collection of past experiences, images, titles, achievements, etc. that we freeze into a concoction we think is our 'self', when, in fact, it is pure illusion. Only the consciousness behind the mask of the self is real. It is not born; it does not die. It is outside of time or space. That is its nature.

Again you're sounding all Advaita. Could you explain clearly what the difference is between Advaita and your belief in "cosmic consciousness"?
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
Sorry for the delay and there is nothing spectacular to say. My Guru Shri Ramana taught that there was no need to hold thoughts about one's true nature. It exists as it is. It is real and it is not a thought.

Our true nature is that of the universe itself. There is no difference. We have always been one with the universe, whether we think ourselves as a distinct self or not.
 
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