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Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
No, what I am saying is that each one of us have to evaluate whom we gather with to be certain that the base spirit of their desire and approach seeks honestly to submit to that undivided allegiance to the One True God through the wisdom given us in Jesus Christ. For that wisdom is God's wisdom, learned of Christ because by his faithfulness to the Father he was able to possess it.

If we find there are ulterior goals which fight against that undivided allegiance and wisdom as learned through Christ, then we must decide whether the organization ids worthy of our supporting it. In that case we would not stop loving it's members but we may well be justified to remove ourselves into a family that respects that prime directive and love them by word and example from afar.
Okay, thanks for explaining. I understand what you are saying.
 

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
That is true and more importantly to the Father through Jesus, which means we would not want to adopt doctrines which turn the work Jesus was doing, the work of glorifying his Father's name, into a belief that only glorifies him instead. For that would be dividing our allegiance to God away from God and undoing Jesus' most treasured work.

But we show we love God and Jesus primarily by how we love our brothers, giving all credit to God through Jesus.

There is room there to praise Jesus so long as we do not undo the very work he most treasured, that of glorifying his Father's name in the earth.

We glorify God by confessing Jesus as Lord. If my life is to be focused on glorifying God, that means that initially I must focus my attention on the lordship of Christ.

“Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven, in earth, and under the earth.”

“And every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.” Phil. 2

The humiliation of Jesus Christ was an act of obedience to the Father. In response, the Father glorified Jesus Christ, and exalted Him. Then He calls on everything in the universe to confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, and then gives this closing statement, “to the glory of God the Father.”

The reason, then, that we are to confess Jesus as Lord is because it glorifies God the Father. Now that is the basic principle of salvation. We are to confess Christ as Lord. That is salvation - for the glory of God.

Anytime we do as Jesus said to do, we glorify God.

That's how I see it anyway.
 
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Mountain_Climber

Active Member
We glorify God by confessing Jesus as Lord. If my life is to be focused on glorifying God, that means that initially I must focus my attention on the lordship of Christ.

“Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven, in earth, and under the earth.”

“And every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.” Phil. 2

The humiliation of Jesus Christ was an act of obedience to the Father. In response, the Father glorified Jesus Christ, and exalted Him. Then He calls on everything in the universe to confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, and then gives this closing statement, “to the glory of God the Father.”

The reason, then, that we are to confess Jesus as Lord is because it glorifies God the Father. Now that is the basic principle of salvation. We are to confess Christ as Lord. That is salvation - for the glory of God.

Anytime we do as Jesus said to do, we glorify God.

That's how I see it anyway.
You are right.

But people can be both right and wrong at the same time. For example in the case of fall-outs between ourselves and others we may be completely right about what we claim happened to us and yet various degrees of wrong in the way we reacted to what happened to us.

Jehovah's Witnesses openly confess that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God. But they recognize that one makes this confession both by word and by action so that if we do not imitate Jesus' manner of giving highest honor to the Father, then our words mean little when we claim to honor Jesus as Lord to the glory of the Father.

Why? Very simply we cannot really be honoring Jesus or the Father by walking in a way of giving praise to Jesus which encourages other to think that all of the glory goes only to Jesus, as that is failing to honor Jesus' example to us. We must honor Jesus by doing as he did. That is what glorifies him. For in giving our praise primarily to the Father through Jesus we are proving that he was a good example to us and taught us well on behalf of his Father.
 

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
You are right.

But people can be both right and wrong at the same time. For example in the case of fall-outs between ourselves and others we may be completely right about what we claim happened to us and yet various degrees of wrong in the way we reacted to what happened to us.

Jehovah's Witnesses openly confess that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God. But they recognize that one makes this confession both by word and by action so that if we do not imitate Jesus' manner of giving highest honor to the Father, then our words mean little when we claim to honor Jesus as Lord to the glory of the Father.

Why? Very simply we cannot really be honoring Jesus or the Father by walking in a way of giving praise to Jesus which encourages other to think that all of the glory goes only to Jesus, as that is failing to honor Jesus' example to us. We must honor Jesus by doing as he did. That is what glorifies him. For in giving our praise primarily to the Father through Jesus we are proving that he was a good example to us and taught us well on behalf of his Father.
I'm all for glorifying God by walking in the footsteps of Jesus. I'm with you 100% on that.

You see MC, I never concern myself that I might be giving God more glory than Jesus, or Jesus more glory than God. You know why? Because I believe Jesus is God.

Now PLEASE let us not start a debate about this. I am well aware of what JW's think about Jesus, and I'm not interested in rehashing it AGAIN. I just wanted to make the point that giving more glory to one than the other is not an issue for me.

End of story. :)
 

Mountain_Climber

Active Member
I'm all for glorifying God by walking in the footsteps of Jesus. I'm with you 100% on that.

You see MC, I never concern myself that I might be giving God more glory than Jesus, or Jesus more glory than God. You know why? Because I believe Jesus is God.

Now PLEASE let us not start a debate about this. I am well aware of what JW's think about Jesus, and I'm not interested in rehashing it AGAIN. I just wanted to make the point that giving more glory to one than the other is not an issue for me.

End of story. :)
As you wish. :)

I know that we are all entitled to believe as we see fit to choose.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Do you have faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God? Have you been baptized into Christ? Do you belong to Christ?

This is how the JW's are baptized.

Watchtower - 1985 Jun 1 p.30

"The first question is:
On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?

The second is:
Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization? Having answered yes to these questions, candidates are in a right heart condition to undergo Christian baptism."
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

Why in the world do JW's only quote Matt. 5:5? Are they taught not to read the other Beatitudes?

Mat 5:3-12 (ESVST) The Beatitudes
2 And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying:
3 " Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 " Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5 " Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
6 " Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
7 " Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
8 " Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
9 " Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
10 " Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness 'sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 " Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.
12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

One verse that says, "the meek shall inherit the earth" and they consider that their only hope. Who is verses 3, 8, 9, 10 and 12 for, The GB?? It is really very sad how these people are deceived by the "ONLY CHANNEL TO GOD", the Spirit directed (not inspired, but directed) small group of anointed brothers that make up the slave.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Do the Jw's realize that the GB will not be part of the 144,000 as they claim? Have none of them read the whole context in that prophecy?

Rev 14:3-5 (ESVST) . No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4 It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, 5 and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless.

I do believe all members of the GB are married and some have kids. So where does this leave them?? READ the scriptures for yourselves JW's without the false teachings of the watchtower!!
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
You are right.

But people can be both right and wrong at the same time. For example in the case of fall-outs between ourselves and others we may be completely right about what we claim happened to us and yet various degrees of wrong in the way we reacted to what happened to us.

Jehovah's Witnesses openly confess that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God. But they recognize that one makes this confession both by word and by action so that if we do not imitate Jesus' manner of giving highest honor to the Father, then our words mean little when we claim to honor Jesus as Lord to the glory of the Father.

Why? Very simply we cannot really be honoring Jesus or the Father by walking in a way of giving praise to Jesus which encourages other to think that all of the glory goes only to Jesus, as that is failing to honor Jesus' example to us. We must honor Jesus by doing as he did. That is what glorifies him. For in giving our praise primarily to the Father through Jesus we are proving that he was a good example to us and taught us well on behalf of his Father.

Well said Mountain_climber!
Jesus devoted his life to the Father....his praise of God was a lifecourse. It was a course of obedience to God, submission to Gods laws and proclamation of Gods Will and purpose....he also spent his time teaching others about God. Its really sad that people have mistakenly directed their focus on Jesus rather then the Father Jehovah. They have put Jesus as first and foremost in their life. Its not wrong to praise Jesus for what he did for us, but it is wrong to fail to acknolwedge that it was God who sent Jesus into the world in the first place.

If we are to imitate Jesus, we must worship the Father first and foremost as Jesus did. That is exactly what Jesus was teaching us to do. I think he would not be happy to see how christians have neglected to serve Jehovah.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Do the Jw's realize that the GB will not be part of the 144,000 as they claim? Have none of them read the whole context in that prophecy?

Rev 14:3-5 (ESVST) . No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4 It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, 5 and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless.

I do believe all members of the GB are married and some have kids. So where does this leave them?? READ the scriptures for yourselves JW's without the false teachings of the watchtower!!

Most of Jesus 12 apostles were married men and the scriptures clearly say they were annointed and they will be with Christ in heaven. Being 'virgins' does not mean they were never married men....they are virgins in a spiritual sense.
 

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
"And Jesus, on coming into Peter's house, saw his mother-in-law lying down and sick with fever."
- Matthew 8:14

"We have the right to be accompanied by a believing wife, (or "a sister as a wife.") as the rest of the apostles and the Lord's brothers and Ce'phas, (Also called Peter.) do we not?"
- 1 Corinthians 9:5
 

Mountain_Climber

Active Member
This is how the JW's are baptized.
Watchtower - 1985 Jun 1 p.30
"The first question is:
On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will
If anyone dedicates their life to serving Jehovah as did Christ, then they are turning away from themselves and their former life of self will and living for God's will as did Jesus. Having turned away from self-will in favor of God's will they have in effect died with Christ to their old self and risen with Christ to walk as he walked. Peter then tells us that because of that choice and following up on that choice in our actions we are able to have a good conscience as we stand and walk before God in the footsteps of his Son. And that is why it is the good conscience which saves us, because we get that good conscience by having been truthful about rejecting our old man and living for the example of Christ the man in his footsteps. And so long as we are doing that we are doing what is necessary to receive our salvation from God. So indeed, although it did not excuse us from having to put away the filth of the flesh, it is the good conscience which has enabled us to endure the putting away of that filth of the flesh and by that the good conscience is saving us. For it keeps us continuing on until, "Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls." 1 Peter 1:9

Which leads me to your next point as I can see that the two things you mentioned are tied together.
The second is:
Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization? Having answered yes to these questions, candidates are in a right heart condition to undergo Christian baptism."
Consider this: Let us say that Jehovah's Witnesses mistakenly preached that only the 144,000 die and are buried with and rise again with Christ. In other words that only the 144,000 were baptized into Christ's death.

If (though differing from that small error in their words) the spirit of what they teach was correct and what they actually were teaching was to reject ones old self-will (dying with Christ) and to live and walk after the model of Christ (rising with Christ as a new man), then does it really matter that they stumbled a bit in their wording?

Surely you don't believe that God's spirit is dependent upon man's having to be perfect in every minor thought and word before it can ride it's way through upon the scriptural based counsel? So long as the spirit of what they say is correct then the actions that spirit promotes will also be correct. But those who are hastily prone to judgment, having not taken to heart Jesus' words at Matthew 7:1-5, cannot see that they make a mountain out of a mole hill by viewing others so superficially rather than understanding them by means of matured spiritual wisdom.

There may be a disease being spread all through the community of a town and the town's medical advisers may not really fully understand that disease and so they describe it wrong. Would that matter if the things they advised the people to do just happened to be the right things to do in order to avoid the disease? If man is capable of giving sound counsel amidst having some of his understanding wrong, how much more do you think the holy spirit on God's word is able?
Many are fanatically using 1 John 4:1 but not understanding it: "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

As one grows in spiritual wisdom and understand more, one sees in behind the superficial things so as to be able to really know if the counsel, though perhaps delivered imperfectly of humans, is in conflict with the spirit in God's word or in harmony with the spirit in God's word.

A false prophet preaches against the spirit of God's word. It is not about being perfect in every minor thought and word. It is about the spirit conveyed as to whether that spirit promotes God's ways in the lives of people or whether that spirit defies God's ways to the people.

More need to take Matthew 7:1-5 more seriously and lighten up, and also cloth themselves with the humility to allow themselves to receive a bit of correction even from ones whose words might be found to have a few flaws.

A truly meek person can learn from even a child.
 
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savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The greatest command of all is to love The Lord God with ALL the heart mind soul and strength. The governing body teach the people to love them. So now the heart becomes divided for God and for human teachers.

The other great command is to love one another as Christ Jesus loves you. But they teach that there are bad people and bad people must be removed.

Tell me please how is that LOVE?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I hear JW sympathisers say that we who warn the JWs are judging them. What is funny about that is that the JWs are judging US.

Tell me please you who say the JWs should not be judged. Why must we be judged by them?
 

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
Why in the world do JW's only quote Matt. 5:5? Are they taught not to read the other Beatitudes?

Mat 5:3-12 (ESVST) The Beatitudes
2 And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying:
3 " Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 " Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5 " Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
6 " Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
7 " Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
8 " Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
9 " Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
10 " Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness 'sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 " Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.
12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

One verse that says, "the meek shall inherit the earth" and they consider that their only hope. Who is verses 3, 8, 9, 10 and 12 for, The GB?? It is really very sad how these people are deceived by the "ONLY CHANNEL TO GOD", the Spirit directed (not inspired, but directed) small group of anointed brothers that make up the slave.
Am I to take away from Jesus' sermon on the mount, that the meek will inherit the earth and those persecuted will receive their reward in heaven?
 

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
Most of Jesus 12 apostles were married men and the scriptures clearly say they were annointed and they will be with Christ in heaven. Being 'virgins' does not mean they were never married men....they are virgins in a spiritual sense.
Are the 144,000 a literal number?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The JWs judge the scripture which says a believer must not eat blood to mean even a transfusion. So people die. Then they judge fractions of blood to be acceptable so some people do not die, but some others who hold to the first judgement die.

They judge the nations - no, they do not judge the nations- they judge Jehovah the killer of anyone whose hands are guilty of blood shed. But by their dogma some have died. They judge themselves innocent.

They judge scripture which says a believing person must not even eat with another person who disagrees with the Governing Body. Some have died because of the JWs harsh ostracisms.

The JWs judge young people ready enough to dedicate their lives to Jehovah and to die with Christ (baptism) and have "lovingly" pressured many to do it.
Then later those children turn away from GOD.

WE who speak against the society are not speaking against the people who do such things. We love them and we who still believe in God know God loves them also. We are speaking against their JUDGMENTS.

OK?
 
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