For what reason do you think that its God's responsibility to answer your questions ?

[chinu]

You have many questions to ask to God, I agree.
But, for what reason do you think that its God's responsibility to answer your questions ?

If your claim is.. that you are in some kind of trouble created by God.
Than your claiming is an inappropriate act because you have not elected God. (God was God, God is God, God will be God )

But, yes, one can pray instead of claiming.

If you say that.. you are praying instead of claiming.
Than the only way to know that you are really praying instead of claiming is that God may not listen to your prayer until you loose all your hope, because who knows that at the end you will again start claiming instead of praying.

Oh!!! its very difficult to fulfill the terms and conditions of a true-prayer.

Do you have anything to say ?

 

[Breathe]

I think that many people want a sugar daddy for a God; a God who will do whatever they want and spoil them.

 

[Parsimony]

Than your claiming is an inappropriate act because you have not elected God. (God was God, God is God, God will be God )

Why would that have anything to do with it?

 

[Nietzsche]

You have many questions to ask to God, I agree.
But, for what reason do you think that its God's responsibility to answer your questions ?

If your claim is.. that you are in some kind of trouble created by God.
Than your claiming is an inappropriate act because you have not elected God. (God was God, God is God, God will be God )

But, yes, one can pray instead of claiming.

If you say that.. you are praying instead of claiming.
Than the only way to know that you are really praying instead of claiming is that God may not listen to your prayer until you loose all your hope, because who knows that at the end you will again start claiming instead of praying.

Oh!!! its very difficult to fulfill the terms and conditions of a true-prayer.

Do you have anything to say ?

Perhaps because, assuming this is true, I was made into a living thing without my permission. Whenever someone says "he made you, be thankful" they never seem to wonder about those who'd rather have not. So yeah. He's going to answer my questions, like it or not. Chariots of iron were plenty to stop YHWH. We've gotten much better since then.

 

[HonestJoe]

You have many questions to ask to God, I agree.

But, for what reason do you think that its God's responsibility to answer your questions ?

I don't believe the God you believe in exists but if he did there would be no responsibilities either way unless he decided they existed, something he could change at any time he wanted. It would render the whole concept meaningless. I would suggest though, that it would be in line with the moral principles promoted on his behalf for him to be open, fair and honest with any questions or problems we face, especially given he claims to have created them all.

Than your claiming is an inappropriate act because you have not elected God.

Too true. Your God is indeed be a vicious dictator.

Oh!!! its very difficult to fulfill the terms and conditions of a true-prayer.

How can anything be difficult for an omnipotent being?

 

[Laika]

It would be all the proof I need to know god does indeed exist, (assuming I didn't need my head examining for hearing voices).

 

[Breathe]

Too true. Your God is indeed be a vicious dictator.

Quick question, do you know which religion @chinu follows, or have you decided his God is a vicious dictator from something else? If so, what?

 

[HonestJoe]

Quick question, do you know which religion @chinu follows, or have you decided his God is a vicious dictator from something else? If so, what?

I've had other discussions with him and read many of his previous posts and so have a reasonable handle on his religious position.

Anyway, the statement that God is unelected alone pretty much leaves dictator as the only option.

 

[Breathe]

I've had other discussions with him and read many of his previous posts and so have a reasonable handle on his religious position.

I see. I have a different experience but I think it may be from how we understand 'God'.

Anyway, the statement that God is unelected alone pretty much leaves dictator as the only option.

I don't understand how, but that's not for this thread.

Thanks for your time.

 

[Stevicus]

You have many questions to ask to God, I agree.
But, for what reason do you think that its God's responsibility to answer your questions ?

I would say that it's more the responsibility of those who claim that God exists and who often set themselves up as God's "spokesperson" on Earth. Since I have never met any such entity called "God" nor have any direct verifiable confirmation of "His" or "Her" existence, I can't see how anyone can assign any responsibilities to an entity that probably doesn't even exist.

If your claim is.. that you are in some kind of trouble created by God.
Than your claiming is an inappropriate act because you have not elected God. (God was God, God is God, God will be God )

It depends. If one claims that God exists and that God created the Universe, that would mean that God created Earth and humanity and would therefore be responsible for the results and consequences of that creation. This would mean that all trouble is/was created by God, no matter if "He" or "She" was elected or not. The "claiming" you're referring to would only be inappropriate if made by someone who doesn't believe in God.

Indeed, I would find it very difficult to accept someone claiming that there is an all-powerful, all-knowing "God" which created Earth, humanity, and the entire cosmos, yet simultaneously claiming that "He"/"She" is not responsible for "His"/"Her" actions.

But, yes, one can pray instead of claiming.

If you say that.. you are praying instead of claiming.
Than the only way to know that you are really praying instead of claiming is that God may not listen to your prayer until you loose all your hope, because who knows that at the end you will again start claiming instead of praying.

Oh!!! its very difficult to fulfill the terms and conditions of a true-prayer.

Do you have anything to say ?

Every prayer might be interpreted as an implied claim of "God's" existence, as well as a claim that "God" is all-powerful, which implies that "God" has the power to fix whatever trouble may exist in one's life. So, in this context, "praying" and "claiming" come down to the exact same thing.

 

[Parsimony]

Chinu, your position is that the Universe was created by us (and we were all one in the beginning), right? Then we cloned ourselves and that clone is God, right? If that's the case, then we did elect God (in the sense that we are the ones who chose to put Him in charge).

 

[Valjean]

If I'm to be held to account for my beliefs, it seems only fair that He should clear up any questions I might have.

 

[chinu]

Chinu, your position is that the Universe was created by us (and we were all one in the beginning), right? Then we cloned ourselves and that clone is God, right? If that's the case, then we did elect God (in the sense that we are the ones who chose to put Him in charge).

I think, you re-read read the full post. So, once gain, let me paste it here for you
GOD is that CLONE. | ReligiousForums.com
>>>In the beginning YOU created a game for yourself to play, but before stepping into this game there was a question in YOUR mind.

Q: How can such a game give true enjoyment until you may forget you are the creator of this game ? Thus.. you turned this game into an illusion game, Which means that you will forget everything, your power, your rank, your place, your status, after jumping into that game.

But again an another new question got arise, Q: As You will forget everything about yourself after jumping into that game, than who will pull you out when you will get tired after playing a lot ? Thus, by giving all of yours powers you created a CLONE of yourself and gave him the duty to pull you out.

Now, asked the clone; Sir, how will i come to know that you are really tired of this game ? YOU said; when i'll cry and beg in front of you to take me out of this game like as you have created me, rather than i created you. And finally by saying this YOU jumped into that game. <<<

There's a lot of difference between electing someone and giving charge to someone.
Of course, you have given your clone the charge to help you out, but that is only in the case when you will get tired after playing a lot and will start crying and begging in front of that clone like as he created you rather than you created him.

 

[chinu]

Perhaps because, assuming this is true, I was made into a living thing without my permission. Whenever someone says "he made you, be thankful" they never seem to wonder about those who'd rather have not. So yeah. He's going to answer my questions, like it or not.

Okay, if that is case.. that you are unhappy with.. that your were created without your permission. Than I don't think there's any question of your which is un-answered.
What is your question ?

 

[chinu]

I would suggest though, that it would be in line with the moral principles promoted on his behalf for him to be open, fair and honest with any questions or problems we face, especially given he claims to have created them all.

Except written in some books, have you ever listened God claiming to have created them all ?

The problem with the people is that sometimes they deny the stuff written in the books, and sometimes they agree with. Why don't go with one thing ? Anyways, keeping aside all the books, God has never claimed to created them all. But, even then he's providing all the answers to problems in his natural way, if one could understand.

King or a Beggar, Healthy or a sick, no one was/is permanently happy and peaceful in this world. Thus.. the result is.. that this world can never become permanent peaceful place to reside on (It was mess, It is mess, and will always remain a mess) and which further means that its just useless to look for permanent peace and happiness in this world. Don't you think that this is ONE fair and honest answer to ALL the questions and problems ?

Too true. Your God is indeed be a vicious dictator.

Of course he's a dictator, but neither good-dictator or bad-dictator, he's just a neutral person.
If pray, he can help. But, if claim, than he will never help because he's not made/elected by us.
Claiming is an inappropriate act, yes.

How can anything be difficult for an omnipotent being?

Here am not taking for God, am talking for peoples.
True prayer is difficult for people.

 

[Ouroboros]

You have many questions to ask to God, I agree.
But, for what reason do you think that its God's responsibility to answer your questions ?

If there is a God who requires that we know him, then yes, it's God's responsibility to make himself known, and make himself known directly and not through unreliable intermediaries. Humans have flaws. Language is vague. So the only way to know such a God is to know him/her/it directly.

If your claim is.. that you are in some kind of trouble created by God.
Than your claiming is an inappropriate act because you have not elected God. (God was God, God is God, God will be God )

But if God demands that you follow what he says, he has to say something.

But, yes, one can pray instead of claiming.

If you pray, then it is you talking, not God. How can you know God by telling God things instead of God telling you things? If you tell God what God is, and you tell God what you think the answers are, then God is just an image of you, isn't he/she/it?

If you say that.. you are praying instead of claiming.
Than the only way to know that you are really praying instead of claiming is that God may not listen to your prayer until you loose all your hope, because who knows that at the end you will again start claiming instead of praying.

I used to pray a lot, but didn't get the answers I needed. When I stopped, I started to listen to nature.

 

[LuisDantas]

You have many questions to ask to God, I agree.

Who, me? I don't think I do.

Any questions relating to God I might have are directed those who propose the concept, not to God himself.

But, for what reason do you think that its God's responsibility to answer your questions ?

It is not. God apparently does not even exist.

If your claim is.. that you are in some kind of trouble created by God.
Than your claiming is an inappropriate act because you have not elected God. (God was God, God is God, God will be God )

But, yes, one can pray instead of claiming.

If you say that.. you are praying instead of claiming.
Than the only way to know that you are really praying instead of claiming is that God may not listen to your prayer until you loose all your hope, because who knows that at the end you will again start claiming instead of praying.

This does not seem to apply to me.

Oh!!! its very difficult to fulfill the terms and conditions of a true-prayer.

Do you have anything to say ?

I agree with Seyorni.

I don't believe in God at all, but those who expect me to should understand that if he did exist and saw fit to judge me in some meaningful sense then logically I should be allowed to demand some answers from him as well.

 

[HonestJoe]

Except written in some books, have you ever listened God claiming to have created them all ?

What if I said yes? What if I told you that I have listened to God and he had told me he created everything, that he told me lots of other things that contradict what you're claiming about God?

You see loads of people have and continue to tell us what God is (or gods are) like and many of those things contradict each other (occasionally from the same people!). Even people who claim to hear directly from God one way or another don't say the same things. Ultimately, we're not talking about what God is, we're talking about what you believe God is.

You need to establish the details of the God you're talking about for us to be able to discuss the consequences of those details. If you're unwilling or unable to do so, it's impossible to have a meaningful discussion on this basis. Also, unless you can prove the God you claim is the one god that actually exists, all this can only be a hypothetical thought experiment.

Don't you think that this is ONE fair and honest answer to ALL the questions and problems ?

It'd be a start but it's not a complete answer and it raises further questions. It's also an answer coming from you, not God. It might be what you'd like to be true but is it actually true?

Of course he's a dictator, but neither good-dictator or bad-dictator, he's just a neutral person.

Is that an opinion or based on actual evidence? Has God told you this directly or are you presuming it's the case? How are you even defining what makes a good or bad dictator in the first place?

 

[chinu]

If there is a God who requires that we know him, then yes, it's God's responsibility to make himself known, and make himself known directly and not through unreliable intermediaries. Humans have flaws. Language is vague. So the only way to know such a God is to know him/her/it directly.

I think.. No, God doesn't require we may know him.

But if God demands that you follow what he says, he has to say something.

Neither God demands anything.

If you pray, then it is you talking, not God. How can you know God by telling God things instead of God telling you things? If you tell God what God is, and you tell God what you think the answers are, then God is just an image of you, isn't he/she/it?

I agree. Than what ?

I used to pray a lot, but didn't get the answers I needed. When I stopped, I started to listen to nature.

When you started listening to nature, its the real prayer. But, when you pray its kinda Claim hided in the prayer, i think.

If the question is.. What is prayer ?
Than my answer is.. According to me the true-prayer doesn't need any specific Time, Place, Style, Rites or Ritual etc.. The whims of prayer automatically start coming out of human mind when one looses all hopes from all sides. In fact that's the time when true prayer begins.That what is true prayer is, indeed.

Dear, Ouroboros.
According to me.. almost most of us fail to notice the moments when we really pray. Those moments are our most humble, meek moments of life. Such moments are very far away from any/all kinds of claim. pride and ego.

Where there is claim, there's pride and ego.
Where there is true-prayer, there's NO-claim.

 

[chinu]

What if I said yes? What if I told you that I have listened to God and he had told me he created everything, that he told me lots of other things that contradict what you're claiming about God?

Than I'll leave you saying Good bye, because, if you can really talk to God than of course it makes me clear that you need not any discussion about it.

You see loads of people have and continue to tell us what God is (or gods are) like and many of those things contradict each other (occasionally from the same people!). Even people who claim to hear directly from God one way or another don't say the same things. Ultimately, we're not talking about what God is, we're talking about what you believe God is.

Of course am talking about what I believe God is.

You need to establish the details of the God you're talking about for us to be able to discuss the consequences of those details. If you're unwilling or unable to do so, it's impossible to have a meaningful discussion on this basis.

The cup is half empty, or the cup is half filled. Both the statements are right seeing from different point of views. I will not establish one final detail of God because different people have different point of views. But, yes, I'd love to understand your point of view to have a meaningful discussion between us.

Also, unless you can prove the God you claim is the one god that actually exists, all this can only be a hypothetical thought experiment.

No problem. I'd also love to continue a hypothetical thought too.

It'd be a start but it's not a complete answer and it raises further questions. It's also an answer coming from you, not God. It might be what you'd like to be true but is it actually true?

I was just telling you what I have realized about this world, till now.

Is that an opinion or based on actual evidence? Has God told you this directly or are you presuming it's the case? How are you even defining what makes a good or bad dictator in the first place?

Am presuming its the case.