crhodes9898
Member
Lent is NOT in the bible, so why do Catholics practice it? I see it as a false practice. Is it or not? Why?
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Lent
- Thread starter crhodes9898
- Start date
It's a time of personal reflection in honor of and reminiscent of Jesus spending 40 days in the desert.
edit: And...I'm pretty sure that's in the Bible.
edit: And...I'm pretty sure that's in the Bible.
crhodes9898
Member
Christ's 40 days in the desert are in deed in the bible, however "lent" itself is not.
So?
Where is in the Bible for people to go around trying to prove other denominations of Christianity are false?
That doesn't stop some people from doing it. It seems to me that's the main focus of some people's version of Christianity.
I think if you have a problem with the idea of taking 40 days (not counting Sundays) and using it to reflect on the life of Jesus, on what things of the world may have dominated you, and exercising some spiritual/self-discipline and introspection, perhaps giving up something you've gotten in the habit of depending on, so as to maybe think you really need it -- and see that you don't really need it -- in preparation for Easter, it's OK. You don't have to do it. I don't do it anymore, either.
But...it's about the last thing in the world I'd come up with to fault someone else for doing.
But...it's about the last thing in the world I'd come up with to fault someone else for doing.
crhodes9898
Member
Mark 16:15
crhodes9898
Member
The problem with Lent and Easter, is that they both come from Pagan origins. If you would like me to explain I will.
No thanks. I've been around a while. That's been discussed extensively here on RF.
It's amazing how different perspectives can be, huh?
crhodes9898
Member
What's your point?
Well, from where I sit, virgin births, vicarious salvation, deities impregnating humans, and demigods are all pretty "pagan" in origin too.
All a matter of perspective.
Whether we like to admit or not, every religion and belief system has co opted and borrowed from the ones that came before it, existed around it, or influenced the cultures it came into contact with.
Judaism contains elements of it's neighbors, the empires that controlled us, and the cultures that came before us. And Christianity does as well; it incorporated rituals and ideas from the Greeks, the Romans, the German tribes, and others into its system and, over time, those things have become important rituals that hold a lot of meaning to many of the adherents.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
You're playing with words and definitions here not the meaning and action of what lent is and why someone is doing it. Even more so, you are using the word as if the word itself should somehow appear in the Bible. The Meaning and practice is in the book of Acts. The word itself does not appear in the Bible; it is referred to as the Pentecost (as many Pentecostals prefer to use instead). The word does not appear in the Bible; and, that does not take away from it's meaning nor does take away from why someone practices it.
Since Catholicism is not the only denomination that has a form of fasting (baptist do as well), I will try to have multiple sources (Bible included).
The preparation of self-cleansing of a Christian's sins, the examination of his or her spiritual life in regards to his relationship with Christ, as well as the reflection of his or her future hope for resurrection through salvation in Him. (THIS is lent) God is not against this at all.
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God is not against a Christian's wanting to observe his crucifixion by fasting and resurrection by baptism. He actually tells Christians repeatedly to die to the law and to sin so they can be resurrected just as Him in the body and spirit with new bodies in heaven. (From the whole Bible). The practice of the Sabbath, to which Jesus does as well, is another form of cleansing and keeping one's relationship with Christ.
Lent (as what I said above) , the crucifixion and examination of sins, prepares one for baptism, their salvation inner and outer and resurrection in Christ. Without this preparation, how is one in mind and heart ready to be baptized by the Holy Spirit?
What about the physical practices of lent, you ask? The fasting.
Actually, many denominations fast to be in sync with Christ. Southern Baptist do. Pentecostal, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Orthodox Catholic, and Methodist (and if I'm not mistaken, Jehovah's Witness does it too).
Fasting with food is a great way to be in sync with Christ. We need food to nourish our bodies. As such, to show Jesus that our bodies are not as important as our spirit, Christians will show respect in that by practice. The particulars depend on the Church and Church history (not just Catholic). The point/meaning is to put self aside and join with Christ in spirit.
Some people fast for things that are not food related. They fast for things that they believe separates them from God. Specific additions and so forth. Fasting with food is a formal practice as I described above. Also, fasting for other things to show God that you only focus on Him is also important too.
God is not against this.
Why isn't lent in the Bible?
You are going by sola scriptural point of view. If is not explicitly stated in the Bible (word by world, deed by deed), it is against the Bible. Instead, the meaning is. In the Bible, Jesus and His apostles practiced many Jewish traditions. He did not put those traditions over His Father, rather these traditions (lent included) are supplement to worship to His Father (and Christians, to Christ). If every devotional practice were in the Bible, they'd be no room.
Here is something I got from FAQs About Lent - Easter / Lent - Catholic Online
Basically, that's it. Lent is a fancy word for the preparation for Easter--the resurrection of Christ and reflection and renewal of our baptisms. We prepare by taking away the things that separate us from God. We also do so by straining from food (a Jewish practice) for specific number of days the Church decided in order to tell God we do not care about our flesh as much as we do the spirit. When we enter the Easter season, all Churches gather together to watch the newly to-be Christians say:
"YES, I want Jesus to be my Lord and Savior" Confirmation. (Roman 10:9; John 3:16)
"YES, I want to be born again by the Holy Spirit" Baptism (Mark 1:8)
"YES, I want God to forgive me for the sins I committed." Confession. (James 5:16; Acts 3:19; 1 John 1:9)
Examples of confession: 8 Bible verses about Confession, Examples Of
"YES, I want to take in Jesus not only in Spirit but in flesh (sacrifice as they do with animal sacrifices--they always eat the sacrifice after it is slain). Yes, I want to be in communion with this sacrificial blessed hosts so that the whole Church (the Body of Christ) will be in perfect union with HIM. --Communion (1 Corinthians 11:27; John 6:53-58; Acts 2:42; John 3:61)
BIBLE VERSES ABOUT HOLY COMMUNION
What Does the Bible Say About Holy Communion?
and
"YES, I want to be part of the Body of Christ (members of the Church) and partake of the sacraments (above mentioned) to have a relationship with Him.
These are very very important in any Christian's relationship with Christ. I don't understand how any Christian can do without any of these sacraments.
In order to mentally, spiritually, and physically prepare for the taking of these sacraments one must die to self and reflect on their resurrection so as when they do so physically, they will also be prepared and do so spiritually as well:
This is lent.
Every sacrament above is in the Bible (Scripture above). Lent is a preparation of these sacraments. God does not object to preparing oneself to die to the law and rise in Him.
Why shouldn't one prepare for their salvation in Christ?
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roger1440
I do stuff
Just because something comes from Pagan origins does not mean Catholics are practicing a Pagan ritual. If my Muslim neighbor paints his house with a really cool color scheme, then I use the same color scheme for my house, that wouldn’t make me a Muslim.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
On that note, in addition to #12, the meaning behind preparing for the celebration of Christ's resurrection and the celebration of Christ's resurrection are not pagan rather. Christianity uses a lot of pagan elements, though. That does not mean the meaning and devotion are pagan too.
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crhodes9898
Member
These are very vague arguments you have for the "sacraments". There is only one "sacrament" in the bible that is really emphasized, and that is baptism. Sure "confession" (if that's the terminology you'd like to use) is there too, however
it does not call for a "penitent" to go in front of a man in sheep's clothing with purple and scarlet and "confess" sins. If you want to "confess" sins, then confess them to God, not a man. Ask for forgiveness and repent.
The topic of the Eucharist is a whole other conversation, we can go there if you'd like, or we can focus on lent and easter.
crhodes9898
Member
That's like saying if you eat watermelon seeds you're gonna turn into a watermelon
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
The point is, the preparation of being Christian (taking the sacraments) are Lent. God is not against preparation of being baptized, repenting, saying they want Jesus to be their Lord and Savior, and taking of communion.
The sacrament explanation is support to the claim you made about lent not being in the Bible. Lent is the preparation of the sacraments which are in the Bible. Preparation to be born again is not against scripture. The word lent doesn't need to be in the Bible to understand God wants you to be with Him not only in mind but in heart too.
There is a parable on this about the seeds. Depending on how the ground was tendered, depended on how the seed grew. Full preparation through lent is like having good ground for planting seeds. Without that, you are holding seeds that cannot grow. (Mathew 13)
Also, this subject is not Catholicism oriented. Without these sacraments (or I'll say devotional practices?) how does one mentally and physically prepare and be born again?
Also, yes, they are vague; because the topic isn't on the sacraments it is on lent. However, lent is a Christian practice and mostly people who think of lent, think of Catholics. Most denominations have a form of lent. Baptist are pretty sola scriptura and they practice it by fasting. Unfortunately, they don't use the word as it is associated with Catholicism.
It's sad, really.
The sacrament explanation is support to the claim you made about lent not being in the Bible. Lent is the preparation of the sacraments which are in the Bible. Preparation to be born again is not against scripture. The word lent doesn't need to be in the Bible to understand God wants you to be with Him not only in mind but in heart too.
There is a parable on this about the seeds. Depending on how the ground was tendered, depended on how the seed grew. Full preparation through lent is like having good ground for planting seeds. Without that, you are holding seeds that cannot grow. (Mathew 13)
Also, this subject is not Catholicism oriented. Without these sacraments (or I'll say devotional practices?) how does one mentally and physically prepare and be born again?
Also, yes, they are vague; because the topic isn't on the sacraments it is on lent. However, lent is a Christian practice and mostly people who think of lent, think of Catholics. Most denominations have a form of lent. Baptist are pretty sola scriptura and they practice it by fasting. Unfortunately, they don't use the word as it is associated with Catholicism.
It's sad, really.
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Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Also, I really hate the confession debates. When I practice Catholicism, I did not repent to the priest, I repented to God.
crhodes9898
Member
The Lenten celebration and Easter came from Pagan origins and is a Pagan practice. After the flood Nimrod reestablished idolatry and then after his death was "promoted" as the original sun god. (Baal) His wife, Semiramis was then referred to as the "Queen of Heaven". The worhsip of these two continued throughout different cultures. Semiramis was aka Isis, Ishtar, and more. Rabbits and "Easter" eggs symbolize fertility. Hot crossed buns take the place as the cakes that used to be offered to the "queen of heaven".
The 40 days of Lent refer to what people, mostly women, used to do during this time. They prayed and to Tammuz (Ezekiel 8:13-14)
Pagan priests would hold services in the morning to honor the sun god Baal. (There are many symbols of Baal within the Catholic church)
No amount of "renaming" pagan names and practices with "Catholic" names and celebrations would ever make this pure and worth practicing. Making it Catholic would make it just the same as it was five thousand years ago.
Jeremiah 7:17-18
crhodes9898
Member
Don't become confused with contributing Catholicism, Protestantism, Baptists, and every other form of "denominated christian faiths" with the True Christian faith. The faith that Yahusha taught and now has been completely reformed to our own human liking.