is tao theisitc or nontheistic

[Iti oj]

Is Taoism theistic or nontheistic. I'm not asking whether or not it talks about gods or if they exist but if the concept of Tao is theistic.

I'm post a poll with 3 options

Theistic, nontheistic or other.

I will allow 2 votes. So if you vote other can you please vote for theistic or none theistic. I understand the dualist approach of this question might not mesh with your view so I added other so it could be explained.

Again this is about the nature of Dao not Daoism or the existence of deities.

This is a public poll and you can change your vote at any time and you can make 2 votes so you can do other and one of the choices.


I'm voting the the dao is not a theistic concept

 

[Lyndon]

I call it Theistic, but its really Taoistic, unlike the Theism of almost any other religion.

 

[StarryNightshade]

Honestly, it's completely up to the practitioner on whether or not Taoism is theistic or non-theistic.

Personally, I find it to be Transtheistic. Neither inherently theistic or non-theistic.

The Tao just is. Always will be. Always has been. In many ways, I find it similar to Brahman.

 

[Iti oj]

Honestly, it's completely up to the practitioner on whether or not Taoism is theistic or non-theistic.

Personally, I find it to be Transtheistic. Neither inherently theistic or non-theistic.

The Tao just is. Always will be. Always has been. In many ways, I find it similar to Brahman.

I agree Taoism is transtheistic, but I don't think that's the same as saying the tao is a transthestic concept. I was trying to ask if the tao itself is a theistic concept, not about Taoism as a whole. I am unsure if you see a difference but I do.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Daoism is a philosophy of life and so the Daodejing is not about gods. But you'd be hard put to find a Chinese follower of Daoism who was an atheist, or a Chinese practitioner of Shenjiao who was not influenced (however slightly) by Daoism.

The Daoist author Eva Wong, trained in the Complete Reality tradition, wrote

By honoring the sacred powers with ceremonies, humanity renews and strengthens its bonds with the deities, and in return for the devotion given to them, the sacred powers grant protection and blessings, and deliver the people from suffering and disaster.

Much what I'd say from the standpoint of Hellenism, or what a Hindu might say.

 

[Lyndon]

It really has to do with your definition of the Theos, if your Theos has to be the creator, and rains fire from heaven on disbelievers, then no, I don't think Tao fits that definition of Theistic. If your definition of a Theos is an all encompassing force of pure good, truth, wisdom, and life, then I would assert that yes, Tao can be considered that kind of Theistic.

 

[Quintessence]

Basically, we need to ask here of the Tao is a god-concept. My baseline, culturally neutral definition of gods is that which a person or culture deems worthy of worship. To call something a god means you have defied it, or granted it worth-ship. To my understanding, the Tao is not worshiped or deified and is, therefore, not a god-concept, nor a theistic concept. If the Tao is being worshiped or deified, then it would become theistic.

 

[Lyndon]

Well thanks to Iti oj I'm really learning something, I found this really good website Tao.org. This is the religion of Taoism developed after Lao Tzu, Lao Tzu didn't really set out to start his own religion like the Buddha. I don't think. He wrote his book and later a religion grew up around it, this website shows what it is today. Taoist religion is both Theistic and polytheistic, just like mine. They appear to call in English the Theos; The Great Ultimate(not the Tao?? as I was thinking) and many many gods or deities, It says to pray to the Great Ultimate and the deities not to the Tao, The Way, which sounds a little like the Dhamma in Buddhism, enough of my limited understanding, feel free to check out the site, sincerely Lyndon.

TAO.ORG |The Center of Traditional Taoist Studies | The Temple of Original Simplicity

 

[Iti oj]

Thanks for the link

 

[Baladas]

Yes, and no. Tao simply is, no matter how it is thought of. Tao is from where our being arises. It is the source of inspiration for concepts both theistic and non-theistic.
It's hard to put into words properly...impossible really. So, I guess I would actually have to say no. It's not theistic, but it is also not non-theistic. It's beyond both somehow.

 

[Baladas]

A quote from a book I am reading: "Open Theism. Taoism is polytheistic. Any of us can find a god that is most resonant with us. However, Taoism is also the perfect system for the doubter, the agnostic, or even the atheist. The masters freely admit that either the gods are not the highest beings in the
world, or they don’t exist at all independently of human belief. One need not even worship a god to be a Taoist, because one can concentrate wholly on Tao itself. Taoism is the spiritual tradition for anyone, from someone who wants only to worship a special god to someone who does not want to worship a god at all." - Deng Ming-Dao, The Lunar Tao

It doesn't shed that much light on the subject, but I thought it might help a little.

 

[Iti oj]

A quote from a book I am reading: "Open Theism. Taoism is polytheistic. Any of us can find a god that is most resonant with us. However, Taoism is also the perfect system for the doubter, the agnostic, or even the atheist. The masters freely admit that either the gods are not the highest beings in the
world, or they don’t exist at all independently of human belief. One need not even worship a god to be a Taoist, because one can concentrate wholly on Tao itself. Taoism is the spiritual tradition for anyone, from someone who wants only to worship a special god to someone who does not want to worship a god at all." - Deng Ming-Dao, The Lunar Tao

It doesn't shed that much light on the subject, but I thought it might help a little.

Let me check amazon gonna have to buy

 

[Baladas]

It's really good. Totally worth it in my opinion.

 

[Sunstone]

Unless you define "god" in some unconventional way, I'd think the Dao is non-theistic. But putting a label on the Dao -- even a negative label (i.e. the Dao is not this and not that) -- might go against the spirit of it.

 

[Lyndon]

I define God in a very unconventional way LOL

 

[Bunyip]

No. Tao is definitely not theistic.

 

[Iti oj]

the poll is coming out how i thought it would.

 

[Lyndon]

Well to repeat myself, According to the Tao.org website Tao is theistic as well as polytheistic, but the Tao is neither the Theos(they call it the Great Ultimate) or one of the many polytheos'. However its not clear if the Tao itself is a being or simply a way of life, in other words the Tao MIGHT be a sort of PANTHEOS of everything, the GOD, the PolyGod's, all of us and everthing there is, I'll have to research this, fascinating topic.

So the Tao is not Theistic, TAOISM the religion is Theistic and polytheist.

By the way the website gives no definition of what the Tao "is" you have to read the Tao te Ching for that one. Does anyone know a good or better translation available on the web??

 

[GoodbyeDave]

No. Tao is definitely not theistic.

Isn't it wonderful how people who don't practice a religion can contradict those who've practiced it all their lives?

 

[DreadFish]

In the context of the question, id say the Tao is definitely not a theistic concept.

Acknowledging the religious traditions of Taoism, id say that, yes, there are deities in the Taoist traditions.