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Should Christians Be Keeping the Sabbath?

AllanV

Active Member
Jesus' WORDS are the hidden manna

If you obey what Jesus says, then you have eaten the from the hidden manna.

There is a dimension to this that is not understood and most Christians say the Bible is the word of God and it ends there but Jesus lives and sends help to energetically take a person beyond their own self.
Jesus says we must drink His blood and eat His flesh.
The nature of Jesus is more gentle than can be contemplated from a rebellious hard heart that is required to maintain emotional balance.

The Word makes everything appear as it is and is the pattern of all creation and the Word lived on the earth and is incarnate in Jesus.
Is it conceivable that His spirit is in the planet earth and there is a cycle and significant change of energy flow that is noticed when close to Him.
 

Yes

Oh how I love the Word of God!
There is a dimension to this that is not understood and most Christians say the Bible is the word of God and it ends there but Jesus lives and sends help to energetically take a person beyond their own self.
Jesus says we must drink His blood and eat His flesh.
The nature of Jesus is more gentle than can be contemplated from a rebellious hard heart that is required to maintain emotional balance.

The Word makes everything appear as it is and is the pattern of all creation and the Word lived on the earth and is incarnate in Jesus.
Is it conceivable that His spirit is in the planet earth and there is a cycle and significant change of energy flow that is noticed when close to Him.
AllanV, I hope that knowledge of the Lord is peace to you.

2 Peter 1:5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge;
And, from knowledge comes self-control.
2 Peter 1:6
and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness;
When we gain knowledge, we have more peace.
2 Peter 1:2 Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
Do not misunderstand Paul about knowledge.
2 Peter 1:3 His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.
 

AllanV

Active Member
AllanV, I hope that knowledge of the Lord is peace to you.

2 Peter 1:5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge;
And, from knowledge comes self-control.
2 Peter 1:6
and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness;
When we gain knowledge, we have more peace.
2 Peter 1:2 Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
Do not misunderstand Paul about knowledge.
2 Peter 1:3 His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.

Yes, but where are God's people.
 

james2ko

Well-Known Member
Jesus' words are to everyone.
John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all [G3956] people to myself."

Do a world study on the term "all". It is a term qualified by its immediate and or broader context. It could refer to 'all' people present or "all" the people of a particular group, like the Israelites:

Act 21:27 And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all [G3956] the people, and laid hands on him, 28 Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.​

"All the people" the Jews refer to are 'all' the "Men of Israel". Similarly, the people Christ will draw to Himself are those whom He came to save--"all" of Jacob's descendants--Israel:

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "THE DELIVERER WILL COME OUT OF ZION, AND HE WILL TURN AWAY UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB; 27 FOR THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS."
The 'gentiles' spoken of in vs 25 are the "fulness of [Israelite] gentiles'
 

Yes

Oh how I love the Word of God!
Do a world study on the term "all". It is a term qualified by its immediate and or broader context. It could refer to 'all' people present or "all" the people of a particular group, like the Israelites:

Act 21:27 And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all [G3956] the people, and laid hands on him, 28 Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.​
I do not see how your study of the word 'all' changes the truth that Jesus will draw all to himself.

Jesus died for the sins of the WHOLE world.

1 Timothy 4:10 (and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

"All the people" the Jews refer to are 'all' the "Men of Israel". Similarly, the people Christ will draw to Himself are those whom He came to save--"all" of Jacob's descendants--Israel:
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "THE DELIVERER WILL COME OUT OF ZION, AND HE WILL TURN AWAY UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB; 27 FOR THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS."​
The 'gentiles' spoken of in vs 25 are the "fulness of [Israelite] gentiles'

I hope you are not suggesting that everyone from a specific race are going to be saved.

Paul was letting the believers know that the Jews were not cut off forever...that within the Jewish community---there are true believers who will come out of her and will be saved. It must have seemed as if God cut off all Jews forever. If God had cut off all Jews forever, then SOME TRUE BELIEVERS will be cut off forever. Since that is not the case---all Israel (meaning all true believers) will be saved, because not a whole race of people will be cut off.
 

JM2C

CHRISTIAN
JM2C said:

Isaiah 56 says “foreigner” as in Gentile proselytes to Judaism

1. As many of Isaiah's prophecies this one has a dual fulfillment. As Luke 19:46 makes plain, in Jesus' time , it is [present tense] a house of prayer but based on the New Covenant promise, it is only for allIsraelites--both Jew and gentiles[ethnos]. The second fulfillment is when the millennial temple is built and itshall be called[future tense-Mat 21:13, Mar 11:17] a house of prayer for all Israelite andnon-Israelitegentiles [nations]. Do a word study on the term 'gentiles' .
” My house shall be called a house of prayer for all the nations?” The court of the Gentiles is what the Lord Jesus meant by “all nations” –Read Isaiah 56:7

The Court of the Gentiles was a kind of symbol and foreshadowing of this, and it is from this that Christ expelled the traders, using the words of Isaiah 56:7 and Jer. 7:11. If you read Mark 11:15-16 the Lord Jesus cleared the temple area where the Gentiles were supposed to worship God but the Jews prevented them from practicing this promise from Isaiah 56:7 by making the Court of the Gentiles like a plea market or “have made it a den of robbers –Jer. 7:11”

The barrier or the “middle wall” that separates the Jews and Gentiles had been broken down in Christ. Before and during Christ’s earthly ministry the Jews and Gentile proselytes were supposed to worship God in the same temple without a “middle wall” prophesied in Isaiah 56:7, but there was a "barrier" or the "middle wall" and on other side of the this “middle wall” is the Court of the Gentiles” and this is the one that the Lord Jesus cleared in Mark 11:15-16.

"Josephus used this term to refer to the balustrade in the Jerusalem temple separating the court of the Gentiles from the temple proper. On it was an inscription that read: "No foreigner may enter within the barricade which surrounds the sanctuary and enclosure. Anyone who is caught doing so will have himself to blame for his ensuing death." When Jerusalem fell in A.D. 70, this partition was demolished along with the temple itself. But Paul saw it as already destroyed by Christ at the cross" -A. A.

In Christ all Jews and Gentiles are one because the “middle wall” was broken down spiritually long before it was destroyed physically in A.D. 70.

This is what Paul was saying in,

Eph 2:14 “For he is our peace, who made both one, and brake down the middle wall of partition,”

But before this verse Paul said this,

Eph 2:11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (that done in the body by the hands of men)—

Eph 2:12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.
 

JM2C

CHRISTIAN
like the one in Acts 8:27.

2. Ones Ethiopian countenance has no bearing on their ancestry. These African men did not simply convert to Judaism. They are physical descendants of Aaron!

NOVA Online | Lost Tribes of Israel | The Lemba

Ethiopia descended from Cush, son of Ham (Gen 10:6-8; 1 Chron 1:8-10). The only relationship genetically of the Ethiopians to the Israelites was through Moses who married an Ethiopian woman (Num 12:1), but this does not mean Moses’s Cu****e wife is the mother of all Ethiopians today therefore, we cannot conclude that all Ethiopians came directly from Aaron. Aaron came from Shem the true Semitic people that “God brought out of the land of Egypt” –Exodus 20:2. Ethiopians then and today are parts of the Gentiles.

If you can't trace your genealogy to Shem then you are Gentile.
 

Eileen

Member
What has that got to do with what I said? But since you brought it up,since the 12 apostles were Jews that would have kept all 613 commandments.

I have not read the whole tread yet so someone may, some apply to young men or women, some apply to married men or women, some apply to a King, Some (most) apply to the priesthood. _ the ten commandments apply to everyone who follows the God of Abraham, Isaac and Joseph.
 

james2ko

Well-Known Member
I do not see how your study of the word 'all' changes the truth that Jesus will draw all to himself. Jesus died for the sins of the WHOLE world. 1 Timothy 4:10 (and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.

1. I know its a bitter pill to swallow for many Christians. It was for me. But I could not cover my ears and close my eyes to the truth. I cannot find any passage(s), in its proper context, that state Christ came to save non-Israelites in this age. Perhaps in the Judgment period (Rev 20:11-12).

This doesn't mean all Christians are doomed. Most, if not all, of them could be descendants of Jacob and not even know it. As a matter of fact, DNA technology suggests most people in the world have Israelite ancestry. Which makes most of the world's population Israelite! This theory is strengthened by God's promise to Jacob to number his descendants as the sands of the sea (Gen 32:12).

As far as your verse above, once again "all" is qualified to mean all Israelite men [and women] especially those who believe. Notice:

Luk 6:26 Woe to you when all men speak well of you, For so did their fathers to the false prophets.​

This is the sermon on the mount. Jesus was speaking to Jews. There were believing and non-believing Jews. Once again, the "all men" is actually referring to "all Israelite men" because their 'Israelite' fathers were the only ones qualified to be prophets!

1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world [kosmos-G2889].
2. Just like the term “all”, the term “world” is also qualified by its immediate and broader context. It can refer to the adornment of woman's hair (1Tim.2:9) where "kosmos" is translated as ["modest"]. It can include the “world” of---either order or disorder, fame and honor, the orderly universe, the stars in the universe and even heaven. James refers to the tongue as, “a world of iniquity” (Jam 3:6).

It can mean the whole world of wicked and reprobate men e.g., “world of the ungodly” (2 Pe 2:5) as opposed to the "world" of the godly or God's elect/chosen

John 12:19 The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, "You see that you are accomplishing nothing. Look, the world [kosmos-G2889]has gone after Him!"​

The ‘world’ who went after Jesus certainly excluded the Jewish Pharisees who uttered the words. It also excluded Jewish unbelievers and every one else who was not there. So it could no refer to every person in the ‘world’. The term could only refer to believers who at the time consisted of Jews exclusively! Based on the context the term could have been rendered, “the world of the Jews”.

When encountering the term “world”, we must ask whose world or what type of “world” is meant. When we remember that both houses of Israel were separate groups scattered among the nations of
the “world”, this is easily understood.

One thing to remember, because of the split Israelite kingdom (house of Judah and house of Israel) the Jews only consisted of Judah and Benjamin. So when you see the term 'Jews' in the NT, it refers to only people of those two tribes.The other ten tribes Jesus referred to as" the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Mat 10:6) were scattered throughout the nations. Peter and James' epistles are directed not only to the house of Judah--Jews-- but also to the house of Israel, who were scattered throughout the 'gentiles' and commonly referred to as 'gentiles' in the NT. God promised to scatter the house of Israel into the 'gentiles' [nations] so they lose their identity as Israel. He is now regathering them through his NT church:

Hos 7:8 "Ephraim has mixed himself among the peoples; Ephraim is a cake unturned.

Hos 8:8 Israel [ten tribes] is swallowed up; Now they are among the Gentiles Like a vessel in which is no pleasure.

Eze 4:13 Then the LORD said, "So shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentiles, where I will drive them."

Eze 12:15 "Then they shall know that I am the LORD, when I scatter them among the nations and disperse them throughout the countries.

Amo 9:9 "For surely I will command, And will sift the house of Israel among all nations, As grain is sifted in a sieve; Yet not the smallest grain shall fall to the ground.

Psa 106:27 To overthrow their [Israel’s] descendants among the nations, And to scatter them in the lands.​

I hope you are not suggesting that everyone from a specific race are going to be saved.

3. No. God is impartial to race or color. Race is a modern concept. The ancients did not did not divide people according to physical differences, but according to religion, status, class, even language. God is partial to Israel’s religion. Contrary to popular opinion, the religion given to Moses at Sinai is not the Judaism we see today.

He has mixed in Jacob's seed with all the races of the world so Israelites consist of all races and colors today. What God is partial toward is ancestry. DNA has revealed a person perceived to be a non-Jew can share the same ancestry as the Israelites! God is only interested in saving Israel’s descendants who today can be disguised as Americans, Europeans, Africans, (name your ethnic group, race, color, nationality).

Paul was letting the believers know that the Jews were not cut off forever...that within the Jewish community---there are true believers who will come out of her and will be saved. It must have seemed as if God cut off all Jews forever. If God had cut off all Jews forever, then SOME TRUE BELIEVERS will be cut off forever. Since that is not the case---all Israel (meaning all true believers) will be saved, because not a whole race of people will be cut off.

4. Paul reveals the ancestral identity of the ‘believers’ you speak of in the beginning of his letter to them:

Rom 4:1 But if so, what can we say about Abraham, our forefather by natural descent? (Moffatt)​

Paul identifies the ancestry of his audience then and today, as he uses a first person pronoun to identify the physical ancestry of all members (both Jew and gentiles) of the Roman congregation. Like Paul, they were all physical descendants of Jacob through his grandfather Abraham!
 
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JM2C

CHRISTIAN
*******
3. Gentiles and strangers are two different Greek and Hebrew words. There are several Hebrew words translated 'stranger'. Scripture indicates there are Israelite strangers and non-Israelite strangers.. Ex 12:45 says no stranger [toshab] shall eat the Passover, circumcised or not.
Ex 12:44 but every man's servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof.
Ex 12:45 A sojourner and a hired servant shall not eat thereof.

“circumcised or not”??? You have to read verse 44 my friend before concluding verse 45 as the same as strangers in (1 Ki 17:1; Ps 39:12).


Exodus 12:45 “A sojourner and a hired servant” is not the same as “every man’s servant that is bought for money –v44”. V44 says they could “circumcise” their bought servant to become part of the community to eat the Passover while v45 they could not for the simple reason that they don’t belong to that community. Verse 48 says “An alien” or “GER” these are the people that came with the Israelites from Egypt –Exo 20:10. V44 and V48 are not the same people. V48 “GER” and V45 “TOSHAV” are NOT the same.

Yet we find Israelites like Elijah and David identified as toshab (1 Ki 17:1; Ps 39:12). According to your reckoning, Ex 12:45 would prohibit circumcised Israelites like David and Elijah from eating the Passover.
toshabey gile`ad or sojourners of Gilead -1 Ki 17:1.

Elijah “toshavey”and David “stranger/toshav and alien/ger” are not in any way “strangers/Toshav” or “alien/Ger” in the community of the Israelites and therefore could eat the Passover anywhere they go even to a stranger land.
 

JM2C

CHRISTIAN
You're probably right. Quote-mining Paul actually makes 'sense' in a conversation between people who view Paul as gospel truth. My apologies.
How do you explain this verse?

Eph 2:14 “For he is our peace, who made both one, and brake down the middle wall of partition,”
 

james2ko

Well-Known Member
” My house shall be called a house of prayer for all the nations?” The court of the Gentiles is what the Lord Jesus meant by “all nations” –Read Isaiah 56:7

Before we continue, let me ask you one question. According to both Testaments, who or what is a gentile?
 

james2ko

Well-Known Member
Ethiopia descended from Cush, son of Ham (Gen 10:6-8; 1 Chron 1:8-10). The only relationship genetically of the Ethiopians to the Israelites was through Moses who married an Ethiopian woman (Num 12:1), but this does not mean Moses’s Cu****e wife is the mother of all Ethiopians today therefore, we cannot conclude that all Ethiopians came directly from Aaron. Aaron came from Shem the true Semitic people that “God brought out of the land of Egypt” –Exodus 20:2. Ethiopians then and today are parts of the Gentiles. If you can't trace your genealogy to Shem then you are Gentile.

That is not my conclusion at all. My point is one who is physically identified as an Ethiopian today can actually be a descendant of Jacob who can partake in the New Covenant promise, if God chooses to call them. I am of Spanish descent, yet my DNA came back positive for Levite ancestry. That makes me a descendant of Jacob in God's eyes.
 

james2ko

Well-Known Member
*******
Ex 12:44 but every man's servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof.
Ex 12:45 A sojourner and a hired servant shall not eat thereof.

“circumcised or not”??? You have to read verse 44 my friend before concluding verse 45 as the same as strangers in (1 Ki 17:1; Ps 39:12).


Exodus 12:45 “A sojourner and a hired servant” is not the same as “every man’s servant that is bought for money –v44”. V44 says they could “circumcise” their bought servant to become part of the community to eat the Passover while v45 they could not for the simple reason that they don’t belong to that community. Verse 48 says “An alien” or “GER” these are the people that came with the Israelites from Egypt –Exo 20:10. V44 and V48 are not the same people. V48 “GER” and V45 “TOSHAV” are NOT the same.

toshabey gile`ad or sojourners of Gilead -1 Ki 17:1.

Elijah “toshavey”and David “stranger/toshav and alien/ger” are not in any way “strangers/Toshav” or “alien/Ger” in the community of the Israelites and therefore could eat the Passover anywhere they go even to a stranger land.

Circumcision is no longer a requirement for NT Israel. This is precisely why we cannot anachronistically apply these passages to NT strangers or gentiles.
 
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