Are we living in the "end times".(Christian)

[jeager106]

The end of this world as we know it. The "last days" of mankinds rule (messing up) the planet.
The "end times" of governments run by man. Or any other title one choses to use.
Some Christian denominations pronounce that we are living in the "deep end times" that those alive today will most likely see the beginning of the tribulation.
I don't subscribe to the rapture, don't believe man was ever supposed to float of into some spiritual domain.
I believe that man was supposed to live in a more perfect earth in harmony with the earth and each other and ruled by Christ and a "heavenly host".
I'm not interested in debating that "good" will go to heaven, or "bad" will burn in hell.
I'm curious about the "end times" spoken of in the Bible, notably Revelation.
ALL comments weclome even if you feel "we" will float off into heavenly bliss.

 

[te_lanus]

I doubt we are anywhere near the beginning of the "End Times". Most of these "end times" prophets is in it only for the money. Most when their supposed prophecy fail, will state they got some of their math wrong and go on if nothing happened, and most of their "followers" will still follow them.

Some Christian denominations pronounce that we are living in the "deep end times" that those alive today will most likely see the beginning of the tribulation.

unfortunately I see it mostly as fear mongering as it keep "christians" in line and the preachers can bash society with it.

Just a shame that a lot of these fear mongers don't even understand basic science, especially Plate Tectonics.Every Time there is a major earthquake some pastor says that so-and-so sinned and it's "God's Judgement" on them. when it's really just plate tectonics happening.

 

[Kolibri]

I see it mostly as fear mongering

Not all religious groups that preach we are in the "last days" are preaching from a fear base, and that is appropriate. In foretelling the last days, Jesus said that the message preached would primarily be done from the perspective of providing hope.

"And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come." - Mt 24:14

The message itself includes an implied warning, but the focus given is the hope.

 

[Sonofason]

The end of this world as we know it. The "last days" of mankinds rule (messing up) the planet.
The "end times" of governments run by man. Or any other title one choses to use.
Some Christian denominations pronounce that we are living in the "deep end times" that those alive today will most likely see the beginning of the tribulation.
I don't subscribe to the rapture, don't believe man was ever supposed to float of into some spiritual domain.
I believe that man was supposed to live in a more perfect earth in harmony with the earth and each other and ruled by Christ and a "heavenly host".
I'm not interested in debating that "good" will go to heaven, or "bad" will burn in hell.
I'm curious about the "end times" spoken of in the Bible, notably Revelation.
ALL comments weclome even if you feel "we" will float off into heavenly bliss.

I believe we are in the end times. I believe the end is very near. I believe in a rapture.

Jesus said, "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done."
(Mark 13:28-30)

Careful study has led many people to understand that the "fig tree" is symbolic of Israel. We should all know that Israel did not exist as a nation since it was destroyed in 70AD. Like the cursed fig tree of Mark 11:12-14, Israel had withered from the roots up. Yes, Israel was uprooted, and it was God's punishment for bearing no fruit. But in the latter part of 1948, that changed, and that seemingly dead tree, became alive again. Israels first elections took place in February of 1949.

"The presence of a fruitful fig tree was considered to be a symbol of blessing and prosperity for the nation of Israel. Likewise, the absence or death of a fig tree would symbolize judgment and rejection. Symbolically, the fig tree represented the spiritual deadness of Israel, who while very religious outwardly with all the sacrifices and ceremonies, were spiritually barren because of their sins. By cleansing the Temple and cursing the fig tree, causing it to whither and die, Jesus was pronouncing His coming judgment of Israel and demonstrating His power to carry it out."
Read more:Why did Jesus curse the fig tree?

Now we have Jesus speaking of a fig tree with tender branches in the end times. That is, we see Jesus telling us about a future Israel that is not actually dead, but an Israel coming back to life, with tender branches. And that when we see this, we will know that the time of the end is very near just as it is true that when the leaves of a fig tree come forth, we also know that summer is near. He says that "this generation will not pass, till all these things be done. He's saying that there is a generation of people that shall see Israel become a nation again and that this is the generation that will see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory and also see the end come to pass.

So, there is a generation of people that are living today that was alive when the fig tree's (Israel's) branch was yet tender that shall see the end of days. I believe that a generation is on average about 70 years. I don't know if God uses averages or not. Maybe He will use a real person's life to represent "this" generation that He is referring to. And don't forget the Great Tribulation must take place for 3.5 years before the end. We've got a solar eclipse coming soon, and two more blood moons coming in the spring and fall of 2015. Remember, the fall of 2015 is the mark of the beginning of a 3.5 year period of time that ends in 2019, the 70th year after Israel had it's first elections.

I don't know if the end is now. But if there were ever a good time for the end to take place, it's right now, and so of course, I'll be watching.

 

[Lyndon]

Why is it that most of the conservative Christians that believe we are living in the ends times are so into fomenting wars and destroying our environment, their misunderstandings of scripture are creating a man made apocalypse, and when this nonsense ends, even if Jesus does return, they are going to have to live in the world and environment they damaged and destroyed, sad thing is the rest of us poor believers that believe in creating peace on earth will have to live in the same f'd up world these aholes destroyed.

 

[Kolibri]

Why is it that most of the conservative Christians that believe we are living in the ends times are so into fomenting wars and destroying our environment, their misunderstandings of scripture are creating a man made apocalypse, and when this nonsense ends, even if Jesus does return, they are going to have to live in the world and environment they damaged and destroyed, sad thing is the rest of us poor believers that believe in creating peace on earth will have to live in the same f'd up world these aholes destroyed.

I find the final words of Revelation 11:17,18 comforting in this regard.

"We thank you, Jehovah God, the Almighty, the one who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and begun ruling as king. But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones and those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining (or "to destroy those who are destroying.") the earth."

Note who will be destroyed and in what stage of ruination the earth will be in. Those destroying the earth will be stopped in mid-ruination. They will not be permitted to exist long enough to actually finish.

 

[Sonofason]

Why is it that most of the conservative Christians that believe we are living in the ends times are so into fomenting wars and destroying our environment, their misunderstandings of scripture are creating a man made apocalypse, and when this nonsense ends, even if Jesus does return, they are going to have to live in the world and environment they damaged and destroyed, sad thing is the rest of us poor believers that believe in creating peace on earth will have to live in the same f'd up world these aholes destroyed.

Actually, it is the religious who are most often the most respectful of others, and the environment. If an end comes to this earth, it's likely you won't have us around any longer to blame.

 

[Lyndon]

Evidently you are not living in America, because in this country its much more likely to be republicans (and right wing democrats) calling themselves Christians that are fighting more rational people that want to stop destroying the environment, and not go to war with other countries over religious differences, that's not being respectful of anyone.

I think its because most of them believe there's going to be this final armageddon, the earth will be practically destroyed (by them) and their reward is going to be miraculously being lifted up to heaven, and the non believers punishment is to be left behind on the planet the "good guys" destroyed.

Goes to show just how insane it is to take some scriptures literally, there isn't even much biblical support for the idea of the believers being lifted up to heaven at the end, almost all the old testament prophecies, even the one by Jesus himself seem to clearly point to paradise being established at some point on this earth, Daniel prophesied the Persian Gulf war and one even bigger conflict after that, and then the struggle ends, presumably with peace on earth, hard to imagine that could happen soon, but trying to make the final conflict worse than already is, is evil pure evil, just what most of our politicians seem to be about!!

 

[Lyndon]

As to Revelation, John was imprisoned on the small island of Patmos a place where very little edible food exists, modern researchers have found many hallucinogenic mushrooms growing wild on the island, and it is quite likely or even probable that John was forced to eat them so as not to starve, the whole book of Revelation seems full of hallucinations, people claim this is the end times prophesied at the END of the book of Revelation, but practically none of the many earlier prophecies in the earlier chapters of Revelation can be linked logically to previous world events. The only Prophet that consistently prophesied dating back to the times from when it was written to the present, actual world events and dynasty changes that actually occurred is Daniel, and in the second to last chapter a clear description of the persian Gulf conflict, after that he only says there will be a time of trouble such as there has not been seen on this earth before, and that is the final conflict, sounds like right now!! So honestly, I pray you skip trying to make sense of Revelation, and strive to interpret Daniel instead who is incidentally a prophet of God considered inspired by all three Abrahamic religion, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Revelation is only considered inspired by some Christians and no Muslims or Jews, something to think about......

He doesn't say the earth will be destroyed, he doesn't say all the wicked will be killed and thrown into a fiery lake, he DOESN'T say anyone will be lifted up to Heaven, he doesn't even refer to a Messiah coming back to earth, again something to think about.

 

[Kolibri]

practically none of the many earlier prophecies in the earlier chapters of Revelation can be linked logically to previous world event

This is in harmony with Revelation 1:10 - "By inspiration I came to be in the Lord's Day." If it was a happy mushroom book it would be a mishmash of nothing sensible. But by comparing Revelation to other parts of the Bible it actually does come into a interlocked masterpiece.

Daniel 7 and Isaiah 17:12,13 are key to understanding the seven-headed wild beast of Revelation 13 for instance.

 

[Lyndon]

This is in harmony with Revelation 1:10 - "By inspiration I came to be in the Lord's Day." If it was a happy mushroom book it would be a mishmash of nothing sensible. But by comparing Revelation to other parts of the Bible it actually does come into a interlocked masterpiece.

Daniel 7 and Isaiah 17:12,13 are key to understanding the seven-headed wild beast of Revelation 13 for instance.

Daniel 7, I think, is ancient history, we're just coming out of chapter 11, and we're in the last chapter 12 now IMHO, carefully read the last half of chapter 11, a stunningly accurate prediction of the Persian Gulf wars, down to naming the exact countries involved, (given that you translate the country names into their modern equivalents)

I think the son of Man coming down from Heaven in Daniel Chapter 7 would be 33AD and Jesus, not the second coming.

Chapter 12 is the coming of archangel Michael, who some christians believe is also Jesus' heavenly form, but that is not directly supported by scripture, Michael was the angel that revealed some of the prophecies to Daniel.

 

[Kolibri]

Yes, the "king of the north" and "king of the south" prophesy was one of the key ones to convince me that that Bible truly is 'God breathed' when I was still a boy.
Jehovah's Witnesses are keenly watching world events to see who will prove to be the final "king of the north" representative at the end of Daniel 11.
The "king of the south" has been pretty stable for a long time now.
It may be that we won't know until that part of the prophesy is in the middle of being fulfilled.

 

[Lyndon]

Blessings to you, I actually believe the King of the North was George Bush, and the king of the south was Saddam Hussein, "both kings are wicked and sit at a table telling lies". Do me a favour and read that last conflict at the end of Chapter 11 thinking of this being a prophecy of the Persian Gulf war, just remember the ancient names for Jordan, Syria and modern Iraq are used as well as the modern names for Egypt, Libya and Israel, there is nothing in the prophecy that does not fit the actual events except that the king of the south wins the conflict, which America would never admit, but in reality it could easily be interpreted as true, as America withdrew most of its troops and went back to its home.

 

[Kolibri]

I will research this again, but not tonight. It is 3:10am here and I am already being unreasonable about the hour Goodnight.

 

[Lyndon]

Just adding(from Daniel 11 and 12) a period period and a half till these event take place would be 2500 years from 500BC (Daniel) to 2000AD. the 1290 years since the end of the jewish sacrifice(700-800AD???) till the establishment of the abomination that causes desolation, has to be the nuclear bomb ie 1945. Blessed is he that makes it to 1335 years, which would be 1990 roughly the end of the Persian gulf war, and this I'm not sure but could the resurrection have already happened and we are the resurrected characters from history living today, just one possible interpretation.

 

[Lyndon]

I will research this again, but not tonight. It is 3:10am here and I am already being unreasonable about the hour Goodnight.

Same time zone here, but I sleep in the day and work at home fixing violins. This is truly inspiring, I've had these beliefs for years but never talked about them at length or on the internet with anyone before.

 

[jeager106]

Wow> I'm grateful for all the good information here.
Be aware that the last book in the Christian Bible, Revelation, maybe should NOT have been admitted into the Bible at all.
Revelation has been hotly debated by biblical historians ever since the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D.
Still is.
John of Patmos was likely NOT apostle John as he would have been at least 92
when marooned on that island.
Thoughts on who John was???????
I doubt "John" was stoned on happy mushys as people that do that are flat so out to lunch they couldn't find quill or ink.
I remember the J.W. book entitled 1975 as the year of the beginning of the end.
Ooooops. It missed the mark a taddy bit huh? I had the book, whish I could find it.
I attended a special J.W. service when an overseer came to say g'by to all and best wishes, & see ya on the "other side", whatever that meant.
I was disappointed when 1975 came & went and we're still stuck on this rotting planet.
I don't buy the rapture concept one bit but if you do I'm o.k. with you.
I knda do believe, more like hope, that there will be an end times I'll live to see.
I'm 68 now so it might wanna happen soon. I want my children, grandchildren to live in a better earth. Be nice if I could survive it also.
About this planet. If there is an 'end time' of governments run by mankind, then understand that under a theocratic authority, we can do much to help the earth heal.
It will heal in time anyway if man quits screwing her up with poisons.
Kolibri: You're words are inspiring. My mother was a J.W. She was a very bad mother and beat me me till I bled. She taught me that if I didn't get ready for the meetings that "god" would send birds from heaven to peck my eyes out while I was alive. And worse.
A J.W. man molested my 12 year old sister.
I arrested a J.W. man for screwing his 12 year old grand daughter.
J.W. people are, after all, only human with all the human imperfections any other religious group has.
I hold no bias against Jehovahs' Witnesses for the actions of a few.
I only mention these things so no one gets the notion that all J.W.s are somhow blessed in some way and therefor perfect. Ain't so.
Wintesses are just as human as anyone else and I don't understand why some treat them so badly.

 

[Sonofason]

Evidently you are not living in America, because in this country its much more likely to be republicans (and right wing democrats) calling themselves Christians that are fighting more rational people that want to stop destroying the environment, and not go to war with other countries over religious differences, that's not being respectful of anyone.

I think its because most of them believe there's going to be this final armageddon, the earth will be practically destroyed (by them) and their reward is going to be miraculously being lifted up to heaven, and the non believers punishment is to be left behind on the planet the "good guys" destroyed.

Goes to show just how insane it is to take some scriptures literally, there isn't even much biblical support for the idea of the believers being lifted up to heaven at the end, almost all the old testament prophecies, even the one by Jesus himself seem to clearly point to paradise being established at some point on this earth, Daniel prophesied the Persian Gulf war and one even bigger conflict after that, and then the struggle ends, presumably with peace on earth, hard to imagine that could happen soon, but trying to make the final conflict worse than already is, is evil pure evil, just what most of our politicians seem to be about!!

Christians going to heaven as a result of a rapture is not the end of it all for believers. We're going to heaven for a celebration; perhaps you've heard of it; it's called the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. After this, we will be returning to the earth with Christ, where he will defeat His enemies, and set up His Kingdom here on this earth for a thousand years.

 

[Lyndon]

boring......

 

[Kolibri]

Providentially I was talking with a brother in our hall yesterday that got really mad at Raymond Franz, when at a convention he said that next year, (referring to 1975) the Lord will come. It was very irresponsible! At most, in the officially printed literature, which might have been tainted by this known apostate, this was left as a question. What we did understand was that Bible chronology pointed to 1975 as being the 6000th anniversary of Adam's creation.

Adam's creation was NOT the end of the 6th creative day. Eve was created some indefinite time after that. (The creative days did not need to be exactly 7000 years long anyhow leaving only 1000 years of Christ rule, before Jehovah can say everything at the end of the 7th day is 'very good.') It is all conjecture and over-eagerness on some people's part. Just like the disciples of Jesus kept expecting him to restore the Davidic kingdom at that time.

Anyhow I was not a part of the increased hopes of the time. It was 'before my time' (exposure) to the Witnesses by about 2 years. Nonetheless I was angry yesterday to find out that the raised hopes were raised by a man that later vilified the organization for his own predictions.