What exactly is the Swaminarayan faith?

[Aupmanyav]

.. in many respects I find it natural for a community to elevate their founding Guru to an almost god like position, I might find it odd if they do not teach from the Gita?

More than a God, Ratiben, the ParaBrahman, so that Lord Krishna also becomes an avatara of their Guru, Sahajananda Swami aka Ghanashyam Pande of village Chhapaiyya, near Ayodhya, in Uttar Pradesh. So, why would they teach from Gita, where Krishna is Supreme? Their guru wrote a book called "Shikshapatri". And the true knowledge has remained with his descendants, enjoying the benefits of being descendants of ParaBrahman Himself for 200 years. Not bad work. Only a few years ago one of the pupils rebelled and established a parallel organization, but how does it matter.

 

[Harsh]

namaskaram Harsh ji



I am not Swaminarayan , I am Gaudiya , none the less , like Shiva fan ji I have high regard for their establishment simply as they have managed to bring togerher a large proportion of the Gujarati comunity here , and have created beautifull temples a often with a school facility close by .
I have never felt uncomfortable visiting the mandir , the deities are beautifull and so well cared for and the comunity on the whole follow the same precepts as we do , .....in many respects I find it natural for a comunity to elevate their founding Guru to an allmost god like position , I might find it odd if they do not teach from the Gita ? and would be interested for a Swaminarayan devotee to give more details upon which texts they use , ....
but as for ...



if God appears as an incarnation it is to lead people on a path to liberation from the tyrany of this material world by offering them a path towards Moksha , ...it is by the provision of such a path that the Lord frees us from our past Karmas , ...that the Lord by his mercy defeats all opression be it from British or Muslim rule , ....

It does not matter if you are able to unite, any community, it matter how you do so. (the means justify the ends,) (heres an example: Jim Jones was able to unite millions of christian's does him doing this justify him, and make him a good man?) they believe that there "guru" is a god, similar to the injustice that was done to many MEN like Sia Baba, Jalaram, and even Jesus, they claim them to be gods, when they are not, they never claimed to be, the reason they do not teach the Gita is because they do not want there followers to see how they go against it, by creating a false idol. They also have many events and "gifts: that they use to attract and convert many "lost" Hindu's who have never touched the real Gita, because if they had they would have seen this lie, long ago. They teach Vedas of there "lord" (i know because i was forced as a child of Gujarati Parents to go to this temple of media manipulation, and physiological conditioning)
Q. building temples is yet another attempt, and method to enhance, and promote a religion to a higher standard, why do most, nearly all religions build temples?
A. It promotes the religion in region in which it stay, why do you need a temple to worship god? God never demanded so. (If you can understand Hindi i suggest you watch a Indian film called Oh My God, it is very enlightening)
Q. Why not use these donation to help the poor, and helpless? (This would be seen by god as a better, and greater good, than building a temple in his name, to enable converts.)
Showing the hypocrisy of how they intend to convert, and change a religion:Swaminarayan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
P.S: The swaminarayan temple near me, is so disrespectful, they have pushed the idols of Shiva, Vishnu, Ganesh, and Hanuman to the corners while there "guru" and his swami's are placed at the center, even going as far to, do there Aarti over the idol of there "guru" and not the "Trinity of Brahma, Vishnu OR Mahesh

 

[Harsh]

More than a God, Ratiben, the ParaBrahman, so that Lord Krishna also becomes an avatara of their Guru, Sahajananda Swami aka Ghanashyam Pande of village Chhapaiyya, near Ayodhya, in Uttar Pradesh. So, why would they teach from Gita, where Krishna is Supreme? Their guru wrote a book called "Shikshapatri". And the true knowledge has remained with his descendants, enjoying the benefits of being descendants of ParaBrahman Himself for 200 years. Not bad work. Only a few years ago one of the pupils rebelled and established a parallel organization, but how does it matter.

You are 100% correct

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Auomanyav ji

More than a God, Ratiben, the ParaBrahman, so that Lord Krishna also becomes an avatara of their Guru, Sahajananda Swami aka Ghanashyam Pande of village Chhapaiyya, near Ayodhya, in Uttar Pradesh. So, why would they teach from Gita, where Krishna is Supreme?

do not think that I defend this assertion , it is not my tradition , I am simply standing in observation of what I see , ...and that is that they very strictly maintain the regulative principles , their temples are uttterly beautifull , their attention to detail and their manner of keeping their deities is faltless , mind you I am not behind the scenes , prehaps I could say more if I were , ..I have only ever visited for Darshan because at any puja time or festival I would have been at our temple attending to our deities .

....personaly I have no position on their Gurus , ....but if what is said is true and there are power struggles over who is intitled to inherit the position , ... then we are back to the very begining of the Mahabarata where upon Duryodhana was consumed with jelousy and desirous of ataining supreme power , ...this envious nature lead to the demise of his entire family and many of their supporters , .........no wonder there is no reading of the Gita , .....

is it your assumption that they regard Krsna as in incarnation of their Guru ??? this sounds a little of an exageration ??? surely if the Guru is considered an incarnation that does not place him above any other incarnation ...?
Chaitanya mahaprabhu is conscidered an incarnation who came inorder to give love of God , ...(when I use God with a capital G then I am refering to the Parameshwara ) ...but he declared himsef to be the lovest of the low , the servant of the servants servant , ....such was his humility , .....and he is seen by his devotees as the mercy of the supreme as he constantly extoled the virtues of chanting the holy names of lord Hari , ....not of himself !!!

Their guru wrote a book called "Shikshapatri". And the true knowledge has remained with his descendants, enjoying the benefits of being descendants of ParaBrahman Himself for 200 years. Not bad work. Only a few years ago one of the pupils rebelled and established a parallel organization, but how does it matter.

what benifits ?

what are the benifits of claiming physical decendancy ???
if there is any inheritance it should be Dharma , ....Duty , ...and returning tothe example of Duryodhana , ...one who forgets his duty and becomes Envious of any others position is blind to Dharma , ...he will come to a sticky end , ....Sri Visnu will not tollerate this insult as it is adharma and even the supporters of the adharmic will also suffer , ...if what you say is correct then this is a very grave situation .

but how does it matter.

it matters , Sri Visnu will not stand by , this time it will not be a war of kshatriyas , ..it will not be fought in chariots , but mark my words there will be a divine battle , ..Sri Visnu appear in disguise and will destroy the envious .
we may not see or understand what is happening , ..just remember , Duryodhana saw only Krsna's phisical form , and not understanding who he was he chose krsnas army above Krsna himself and sealed his own fate .

I feel very sad for the genuine devotees who are or will get caught up in such power struggles .

 

[Poeticus]

They teach Vedas of there "lord" (i know because i was forced as a child of Gujarati Parents to go to this temple of media manipulation, and physiological conditioning)

Aa bau saachi vaat kidhi; sena maate Gujaratiyon emnaa chokraao ne swaminarayan mandiron maa laijhaae che---eh mane khabarajh nai padti. Jhyaare smaarta mandiron hoi; jhyaare vaishnava mandiron hoi; jyaare shiv bhagwan ane devi maa kaa mandiron hoi; toh sena maate aa bijhaa badhaa mandironmaa jaushaw? Ave toh hadh thagai, yaar: aapde kaiye "Jai Shri Krishna"; pan eh paachaa bole "Jai Swaminarayan". Alyaa, koi unity toh raakho---pan emnaa majority waaraaon khabarajh nai padti. Hu karye. Dungri nai khaavaani; aa nai khaavaanu; toh lyaa hu khaavaanu!?

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

Aa bau saachi vaat kidhi; sena maate Gujaratiyon emnaa chokraao ne swaminarayan mandiron maa laijhaae che---eh mane khabarajh nai padti. Jhyaare smaarta mandiron hoi; jhyaare vaishnava mandiron hoi; jyaare shiv bhagwan ane devi maa kaa mandiron hoi; toh sena maate aa bijhaa badhaa mandironmaa jaushaw? Ave toh hadh thagai, yaar: aapde kaiye "Jai Shri Krishna"; pan eh paachaa bole "Jai Swaminarayan". Alyaa, koi unity toh raakho---pan emnaa majority waaraaon khabarajh nai padti. Hu karye. Dungri nai khaavaani; aa nai khaavaanu; toh lyaa hu khaavaanu!?

English please

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Harsh ji

It does not matter if you are able to unite, any community, it matter how you do so. (the means justify the ends,) (heres an example: Jim Jones was able to unite millions of christian's does him doing this justify him, and make him a good man?) they believe that there "guru" is a god, similar to the injustice that was done to many MEN like Sia Baba, Jalaram, and even Jesus, they claim them to be gods, when they are not, they never claimed to be, the reason they do not teach the Gita is because they do not want there followers to see how they go against it, by creating a false idol. They also have many events and "gifts: that they use to attract and convert many "lost" Hindu's who have never touched the real Gita, because if they had they would have seen this lie, long ago. They teach Vedas of there "lord" (i know because i was forced as a child of Gujarati Parents to go to this temple of media manipulation, and physiological conditioning)

then I understand fully your position and you are blessed with the fortune of good karma to see through the illusions inherent in such a system .

Q. building temples is yet another attempt, and method to enhance, and promote a religion to a higher standard, why do most, nearly all religions build temples?

there will be various motivations some pure and some impure , ...the saddest thing for me is that if I visit such a spendid temple , my mind as a devotee will go imidiatly to the pure ideal and I will automaticaly assume that such a temple must be built out of pure love and in glorification of the supreme , and when I say supreme I mean The Supreme , yes of course I see the their guru standing next to Radha Krsna , ...but my eyes will be on Radha as I am her sakhi evenI canot look first at Krsna as Krsna belongs to Radha only through her servce do I reach Krsna ....


we are also used to seeing Lord Chaitanya beside Radha Krsna ...

so at first it would not seem so strange .

A. It promotes the religion in region in which it stay, why do you need a temple to worship god? God never demanded so. (If you can understand Hindi I suggest you watch a Indian film called Oh My God, it is very enlightening)

it is true a grand temple is not needed and in ways yes it can sometimes be a method more of attracting wealth and status than glorifying the deities within .

Q. Why not use these donation to help the poor, and helpless? (This would be seen by god as a better, and greater good, than building a temple in his name, to enable converts.)

I understand completely , personaly I beleive there is a ballance to be found , .....after all the lord himself is more interested in the purity and love with which one gives serva that he is in the opulance of the temple

Showing the hypocrisy of how they intend to convert, and change a religion:Swaminarayan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
P.S: The swaminarayan temple near me, is so disrespectful, they have pushed the idols of Shiva, Vishnu, Ganesh, and Hanuman to the corners while there "guru" and his swami's are placed at the center, even going as far to, do there Aarti over the idol of there "guru" and not the "Trinity of Brahma, Vishnu OR Mahesh

when I went the gurus were sepperate from the central deities apart from Harikrsna Maharaj who I beleive stood beside Radha Krsna , ....Sita Rama , Siva and Parvati , Ganesha and Hanuman were very central , although It is a long time since I visited .

I will read your link .

 

[Aupmanyav]

hu khaavaanu!?

એર ખાય, પાણી પીવું.
Eat air, drink water.

 

[ramkrishna_vandana]

Namaste

I admit that I am not familiar with Swaminarayan, though I did purchase a beautiful book with wonderful art and drawings in it, actually it was written for children and is about the life of Swaminarayan. But I have not read it yet, this thread has my curiousity now since I purchased it at the BAPS Temple in Milpitas California which I visit to have darshan of Siva Parvati.

All I know is, the Temple is wonderful, and the Murtis are Majestic in beauty and peace.

Everyone is very nice to me, I don't know why. When I come to the door, as someone is leaving, they always say - Jai Swaminarayan! The Indian women too, they are friendly and not shy to me, so I am not so sure about what is said of women of the sect being coddled. The men are nice. No one cares if you are not "Indian".

I like this BAPS temple. I bring family and friends, they like this temple too.

I do not let things bother me, if some say this or that is God. I do think a saint can be God, though I do not belong to the Swaminarayan sect. I know that Trailanga Swami was a Walking Shiva of Varanasi, I believe He has God in him, so why should I criticize but first look at them. All I know is their people are very nice. They have not thrown a shoe at me. They have not told me I am not "pure". They have not closed the door to me. So I love them, too.

Om Namah Sivaya

Yeah Saint can be god but in today's era repeatedly new saints come and come and Number of God increased beyond 33 crores LOL.. The Sahjananda was worshiping krishna and told also to bow krishna as the supereme deity. But now follwers want Sahjananda as supereme god and their idol need to be at center, so saying Sahjanand as incarnation of nar narayan and its the supreme. How it can be? Nar Narayana also incarnation of Vishnu, same as the krishna. And Hindu purana depic purna avtars are ram and krishna only and we can worship them as supreme. Shiva is lord of lord one obviously need to bow.

 

[ramkrishna_vandana]

Honestly swaminarayan is a faith in which they believe that this man that was born in 1781 was a avatar/incarnation of vishnu, and try to propose there own agenda, by failing to teach there "followers' of how there is no mention of this in the Gita. there whole religion is a classic, hitler type brain-wash method at converting people to meet there set of views. They purposely never teach the Gita, (knowing they would be disproven, and also fail to highlight things such as how Britian was ruling India at the moment, and this "God" failed to do anything.

Truly Agree. And they proposing there own agendas as supereme being have incarnated and no one knowing. Sahjanand's worshiping krishna and followers saying its incarnation of nar narayana. that is incarnation of incarnation

Around 1800, many saints became in gujarat who was just as like as sahjananda, like doing work like 'the sons of divinity' like angels. We should bow them and respect, or statues can be made by follweres in Hindu temple as Great Saint. But It doesnt mean we consider them as the supreme being. And ignore all the divine feelings we have for our deities before 200 years ago, since the hinduism is there.

 

[ramkrishna_vandana]

Only if you are a male. If you are a female you must sit in the back.

They saying Sahjanand was Brahmchari so females are not allowed. They have seperate area also for doing puja and to bow to other GOD's.

But may be business mind that time was thinking that to ask land for big mandir's to brithishers, to do marketing females are waste to keep in this area (many britishers were near to this followers of sahjananda while sahjananda was there).

Now may be some business mind will come and will allow females also as the era demands LOL..

But I dont know why hindu supreme being was there on earth and Dutch,Portuguese,Britisher's was trying to rule hindu land and followers of deity are interested in making communication,business with foreigners and attract them.

The First Swaminarayan temple's land was given by britisher as he also was having faith that i am giving land to supereme being

 

[ramkrishna_vandana]

It does not matter if you are able to unite, any community, it matter how you do so. (the means justify the ends,) (heres an example: Jim Jones was able to unite millions of christian's does him doing this justify him, and make him a good man?) they believe that there "guru" is a god, similar to the injustice that was done to many MEN like Sia Baba, Jalaram, and even Jesus, they claim them to be gods, when they are not, they never claimed to be, the reason they do not teach the Gita is because they do not want there followers to see how they go against it, by creating a false idol. They also have many events and "gifts: that they use to attract and convert many "lost" Hindu's who have never touched the real Gita, because if they had they would have seen this lie, long ago. They teach Vedas of there "lord" (i know because i was forced as a child of Gujarati Parents to go to this temple of media manipulation, and physiological conditioning)
Q. building temples is yet another attempt, and method to enhance, and promote a religion to a higher standard, why do most, nearly all religions build temples?
A. It promotes the religion in region in which it stay, why do you need a temple to worship god? God never demanded so. (If you can understand Hindi i suggest you watch a Indian film called Oh My God, it is very enlightening)
Q. Why not use these donation to help the poor, and helpless? (This would be seen by god as a better, and greater good, than building a temple in his name, to enable converts.)
Showing the hypocrisy of how they intend to convert, and change a religion:Swaminarayan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
P.S: The swaminarayan temple near me, is so disrespectful, they have pushed the idols of Shiva, Vishnu, Ganesh, and Hanuman to the corners while there "guru" and his swami's are placed at the center, even going as far to, do there Aarti over the idol of there "guru" and not the "Trinity of Brahma, Vishnu OR Mahesh

They think brahma,vishnu,mahesh all are Sahjanada, saint born 200 years ago just like many others. This is i think insult to hinduism, insult to our god just like other religion's do. Or may be This is the prabhav of Kaliyug as stated in our puranas.

Swaminarayan is not about divinity,to love almighty. Its about getting name,fame,money.

Even swaminarayan devotees tell if you follow swaminarayana you will be richer and only way to worship laxmi is their main temple laxmi narayan temple(one of the first temples where according to them swayam shree hari have give prana to murti) and kumkum temple.

Many girls doing love marriage getting forced by their in-laws to follow swaminarayan in which they dont believe at all. Even krishna worship is seen as inferior and only greet with 'Jay Swaminarayan'. 'Jay Shree Krishna' greeting is seen as insult.

Almighty doesn't pleaded by making it popular anyhow, by doing all popular marketing for that like attract people by big mandir's,arranging lok dayra's, gaining sight of politiciains ,training people for international business, attracting childrens by various ways so that parents forcibly go to their place,these all are materials things of happiness which have no connection to almighty.