Please demonstrate that the creation of our universe was driven by intellect.

[NulliuSINverba]

The thread's title is self-explanatory. Theists are invited to offer their arguments.

Note: Unsubstantiated claims will be terminated with extreme prejudice ...

 

[Skwim]

Please demonstrate that the creation of our universe was driven by intellect.

Okay, using the Bible as my source of evidence:

Genesis 1 (KJV)
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.*

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.*

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
​

* This shows what created the heavens (universe): god.
* Saying stuff shows the intelligence you're looking for: god

 

[George-ananda]

I believe the formation of complex life was driven by intellect. I don't believe the fantastic number of complex processes required for complex life are reasonably explained by only the processes accepted by modern science. Start with an inorganic planet and let's see us standing their in 2 billion revolutions around the sun. I believe life was fostered by nature spirits that worked with the elements of the earth to gradually bring about something that can birth, eat, excrete, reproduce itself with DNA, etc.. These nature spirits are not omniscient nor omnipotent but far beyond us in their field of intelligence.

Now, I will beat you to saying I can't substantiate this with any physical proof. The evidence comes from those who have had experience with beings beyond the physical and the likelihood of DNA, etc.. forming through only known processes.

I wonder if this thread wasn't to show off that 'UNSUBSTANTIATED CLAIM' stamp. Feel free to give me one if it makes you feel more scientific than me.

 

[NulliuSINverba]

Okay, using the Bible as my source of evidence ...

The Bible is the claim, not the evidence. So sorry.

 

[NulliuSINverba]

I will beat you to saying I can't substantiate this with any physical proof.

Thanks for proactively disqualifying yourself. At least you're being honest.

I wonder if this thread wasn't to show off that 'UNSUBSTANTIATED CLAIM' stamp. Feel free to give me one if it makes you feel more scientific than me.

Wouldn't a Substantiated Claim render the "Unsubstantiated Claim" stamp unnecessary?

 

[oldbadger]

Ha ha!
I'm a Deist so my idea of God is all about the 'wholeness' of God, which of course includes you.

But your challenge is a little bit like one of my brain cells demanding proof that its whole world (my brainy-bits ) is self aware.

 

[NulliuSINverba]

Did oldbadger read the thread's opening salvo?

Ha ha!
I'm a Deist so my idea of God is all about the 'wholeness' of God, which of course includes you.

Great. At least you won't be offering up scriptures to support whatever argument you may or may not ever get around to presenting. That'll be refreshing.

...

Feel free to comment on and/or explain this definition of deism:

"Deism is knowledge of God based on the application of our reason on the designs/laws found throughout Nature. The designs presuppose a Designer." ~ from "Deism Defined"

But your challenge is a little bit like one of my brain cells demanding proof that its whole world (my brainy-bits ) is self aware.

Is there an emoticon for "I apparently cannot demonstrate that intellect was driving the creation of the universe?"

 

[allfoak]

The thread's title is self-explanatory. Theists are invited to offer their arguments.

Note: Unsubstantiated claims will be terminated with extreme prejudice ...

Your own intellect is all the proof you need.
Since you are not willing to use it, your challenge is without form or substance.
You claim to be so certain that there is no God, yet by your very actions you prove there is.

The Bible says that those that are carnal in their thinking are unable to understand spiritual things.
Since you are unwilling to apply your intellect for the purpose of understanding the things that you see in front of you, you would rather point and laugh at those whom you know are unable to provide physical proof of the existence of something that is beyond your ability to comprehend.
This makes you carnal in your thinking and unqualified to even present such a challenge.

 

[Nakosis]

The thread's title is self-explanatory. Theists are invited to offer their arguments.

Note: Unsubstantiated claims will be terminated with extreme prejudice ...

Kind of a silly challenge because, after all, what evidence do you expect to be brought up of when the universe was created to support such a claim.

However we do know that intelligence exist in the universe. And I think the problem is this idea of a cut-off for the creation of the universe. The universe is still being created. Each moment is created. Intelligence can be the cause of things.

Asking people to demonstrate it, really. They going to create a new universe for you?

However, intelligence exists in the universe. Intelligence causes things. Did intelligence cause our universe? It's possible.

Perhaps not provable but if man ever get to the point he can create universes we can show it's doable.

 

[oldbadger]

Did oldbadger read the thread's opening salvo?

Well..... yes. As in 'Theists are invited....' But I didn't think that you'd mind me answering anyway. I'll clear off if you want...

Great. At least you won't be offering up scriptures to support whatever argument you may or may not ever get around to presenting. That'll be refreshing.

Argument? I don't have an argument! I have only feelings, concepts and perceptions. I can discuss, chat, share viewpoints, etc, but why would I want to prove or demonstrate Deism? This ain't a hard sell, it's a way of looking at everything.

Feel free to comment on and/or explain this definition of deism:
"Deism is knowledge of God based on the application of our reason on the designs/laws found throughout Nature. The designs presuppose a Designer." ~ from "Deism Defined"

That's rubbish. We don't actually have much knowledge of the vast extent of all things, most probably extending out and far beyond multiverses...... 'knowledge of God'...... and what idiot thought he could 'Define' the indefinite?
I have perceptions and concepts within..... a very individual condition which can't and shouldn't be chucked at folks.

Is there an emoticon for "I apparently cannot demonstrate that intellect was driving the creation of the universe?"

Look, stop muttering about the bloody universe....... it's not even multiverses, or clusters of multiverses, or even galaxies of multiverses.' Big G is just......... bigger than I can grasp, so it's better if I just say that I have no clue about the initiation of all. BUT...... I have a name for the initiation of, and content of, all. I call that Big G.

 

[Skwim]

The Bible is the claim, not the evidence. So sorry.

So, what kind of presented evidence wouldn't be claimed evidence? Have you ever claimed evidence you never presented?

Claim is inherent in any presented evidence!
Sheeeesh!

 

[Quintessence]

Note: Unsubstantiated claims will be terminated with extreme prejudice ...

Why? What is there to be gained from such an endeavor? If something doesn't meet your personal litmus test, so what?

 

[Robert.Evans]

The thread's title is self-explanatory. Theists are invited to offer their arguments.

Note: Unsubstantiated claims will be terminated with extreme prejudice ..

I wonder why this question came up... haha

Please demonstrate that the creation of our universe was driven through luck...... and then ask which is the more likely.

 

[NulliuSINverba]

Look, stop muttering about the bloody universe....... it's not even multiverses, or clusters of multiverses, or even galaxies of multiverses.' Big G is just......... bigger than I can grasp, so it's better if I just say that I have no clue about the initiation of all. BUT...... I have a name for the initiation of, and content of, all. I call that Big G.

As the discussion is (as you've conceded) beyond your grasp, I'll try to take everything you say with a grain of salt while thanking you for the marginally relevant cosmic waffling.

...

Meanwhile, remind yourself that this thread was directed to those who claim to believe that intellect was the driving force behind creation.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

As the discussion is (as you've conceded) beyond your grasp, I'll try to take everything you say with a grain of salt while thanking you for the marginally relevant cosmic waffling.

^ Adolescent hubris.

 

[NulliuSINverba]

I wonder why this question came up... haha

Please demonstrate that the creation of our universe was driven through luck...... and then ask which is the more likely.

That'd be off-topic, my little creationist buckaroo. If you'd like to start your own thread called "Demonstrate That The Universe Was Created By Luck" you are free to do so. While you are here, you will either endeavor to answer the question or you will pipe down and depart. OK?

However, given that you're unable to make any sort of a meaningful distinction between "luck & magic" and your own unsubstantiated belief that some sort of supernatural being decided to create the universe out of nothing instead of not creating the universe out of nothing, I'm not sure what you could possibly bring to either discussion (aside from your tried-'n-true paper bag shtick).

...

Anyway, what you're offering is a false dichotomy. How in the world can you possibly know that the only two options are "God Done It" (by which you probably mean "My God Done It") and "It Was Mere Chance?"

Clearly, you're only claiming to know.

 

[Levite]

The thread's title is self-explanatory. Theists are invited to offer their arguments.

Note: Unsubstantiated claims will be terminated with extreme prejudice ...

Can you offer any compelling reason that I ought to participate in a discussion about creation with someone who treats the views of others so contemptuously?

The title of your threat seems to assume that theists who believe God created the universe need to prove their claim to you. Can you offer any compelling reason that I ought to be interested in what you believe, or your judgment of what I believe?

 

[NulliuSINverba]

^ Adolescent hubris.

^ Irrelevant editorializing.

 

[NulliuSINverba]

Can you offer any compelling reason that I ought to participate in a discussion about creation with someone who treats the views of others so contemptuously?

"Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have." ~ 1 Peter 3:15

But perhaps you're not a Christian theist?

The title of your threat seems to assume that theists who believe God created the universe need to prove their claim to you. Can you offer any compelling reason that I ought to be interested in what you believe, or your judgment of what I believe?

1.) It's a thread, not a threat.
2.) The burden of proof is not on the skeptic. It's rests squarely on the shoulders of the parties making the claim(s).
3.) No one has a gun to your head. Your participation is strictly a matter of your own free will.

 

[NulliuSINverba]

Why? What is there to be gained from such an endeavor? If something doesn't meet your personal litmus test, so what?

If you don't wish to participate, please don't.

...

However, if theists claim to believe that the universe was created by some sort of supernatural intelligence ... is it unreasonable for anyone else to ask them to explain their claims? Or might it be that when scrutinized, these beliefs boil down to a simple "personal litmus test?"