another botched execution.

[Smart_Guy]

As a percentage, there aren't that many prison escapes, and many of those are the result of prison staff making mistakes, and simply being understaffed. Prison guards don't earn that much money, it's a high-risk job, and they have a high staff turnover rate. Those things would be relatively easily solved by increasing staff numbers and salaries. Do that, and I bet you'll see fewer prisoners escaping.

That aside, the chance of a prisoner escaping should not be a factor in deciding whether to put one of them to death. It's a different problem entirely.

Should the results of poor staffing be killing prisoners? No.

But it's there, happened, still happening and will keep happening, regardless to any analysis or excuses we could come with. We face facts and should act according to facts.

Prisoners escaping, whither it is a different problem, it still risks (actually already caused) more innocent dying while execution could have effectively stopped the chain of murder way long ago. Tragedies like the ones in the links I gave above could have stopped effectively. We need to consider other people and their priorities.

In the end completely removing death sentence as an option will result in what we don't want to happen, not that it isn't really already happening.

As I said before, killing people is wrong, across the board, regardless of what said person may or may not have done

But you also said before that self defense is an exception. What made you say that before and forget it now means that there could be other exceptions you're not aware of. That is why I say death sentence is not an absolute necessity, but should be there as an option as circumstances call for:

Whatever motivations there are, you're just as dead either way, and that is my point. It's not ok to kill someone, whichever reasons you have for doing so, especially if there are other options available. (self-defence aside)

In normal cases I do agree with you tho.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Killing people is unacceptable. If you ever hope to stop people killing people, you must do exactly that.

Stop killing people.

If only it were that easy.

As a society, we put down dogs who bite people in order to protect ourselves from dangerous dogs. When a man lowers himself to the level of a dangerous animal, he must be put down.

 

[Pegg]

Just because the authorities HAVE that right, does not mean it is the right thing to do. In the 1930s (to pick an over used example), German authorities had the right in Germany to displace and kill millions of Jews, and thousands of others they didn't like or didn't want to deal with.

no,

The nazis didn't have the right to do what they did... they were murders and they were eventually held accountable and tried by the authorities...many of them were put to death by hanging.

NEVER will I undermine victim rights. Never have I suggested it, nor implied it. Neither have I said to release a prisoner instead. Maybe they do need to spend their remaining lives in prison.

It is difficult to know what is the right thing to do, but what I do know is that killing another person is wrong. Full stop. End of story. No excuses.

If it could be guaranteed that a killer does spend his life in prison, that would be the only acceptable alternative to death.... because you can't put a killer back out onto into the communit. Unfortunately, they dont stay in jail long enough and some murderers dont go to jail at all.

 

[methylatedghosts]

But it's there, happened, still happening and will keep happening, regardless to any analysis or excuses we could come with. We face facts and should act according to facts.

Prisoners escaping, whither it is a different problem, it still risks (actually already caused) more innocent dying while execution could have effectively stopped the chain of murder way long ago. Tragedies like the ones in the links I gave above could have stopped effectively. We need to consider other people and their priorities.

People escape prison regardless of the death sentence being lawful. They do it in my country too. Having execution as an option doesn't change that.

In the end completely removing death sentence as an option will result in what we don't want to happen, not that it isn't really already happening.

As I said, it hasn't changed it for us, and we've been without the death sentence for decades.

But you also said before that self defense is an exception. What made you say that before and forget it now means that there could be other exceptions you're not aware of. That is why I say death sentence is not an absolute necessity, but should be there as an option as circumstances call for:



In normal cases I do agree with you tho.

My apologies. I'll explain:
Killing another person is not ok. Deliberately doing so, especially. In the car of self defence, killing your assailant should be your last option, and if it happens is not punishable. But that still doesn't make it ok. Forgivable, yes.

 

[methylatedghosts]

If only it were that easy.

As a society, we put down dogs who bite people in order to protect ourselves from dangerous dogs. When a man lowers himself to the level of a dangerous animal, he must be put down.

But it is that simple.

To stop killing people, you simply stop killing people.

 

[Smart_Guy]

@methylatedghosts

Hey there man. Just wanted to let you know that I'm completely fine with your views. Having different opinions does not hurt friendliness and respect

 

[methylatedghosts]

no,

The nazis didn't have the right to do what they did... they were murders and they were eventually held accountable and tried by the authorities...many of them were put to death by hanging.

Oh, but they did. They took the right to control the lives of Jews. They took the right to destroy their lives. They took the rights of the Jewish people, and held onto them. They owned the right to do what they did.

If you want to stop slavery, you stop enslaving people, and give them back the right to live freely. If you want to stop sexism against women, you stop being sexist and give them their rights back. If you want to stop killing people, you stop killing people and return to them their rights to exist.

If it could be guaranteed that a killer does spend his life in prison, that would be the only acceptable alternative to death.... because you can't put a killer back out onto into the communit. Unfortunately, they dont stay in jail long enough and some murderers dont go to jail at all.

Those are not problems solved by the death sentence. Sometimes people who haven't murdered someone escape and then do murder someone.

 

[methylatedghosts]

@methylatedghosts

Hey there man. Just wanted to let you know that I'm completely fine with your views. Having different opinions does not hurt friendliness and respect

My friend

I am not fine with just a single one of your many many views, but I am more than fine with you ^_^

This is something many people feel strong about, from either aside of the fence, you and I included. Dialogue allows us to understand one another, and ourselves, more deeply. And that is always a positive thing

 

[Koldo]

Would you volunteer to be the one to inject the man in the chair?

I'm sure it's easy to support executions when there's someone else to do the act for you.

Would you kill a man...?

Yes, and yes.
I would need to be certain that he did commit the crime though.

 

[Koldo]

But it is that simple.

To stop killing people, you simply stop killing people.

Honestly, it doesn't work. Not killing people ( on death penalty ) doesn't stop in any way whatsoever people from killing others.

 

[methylatedghosts]

Honestly, it doesn't work. Not killing people ( on death penalty ) doesn't stop in any way whatsoever people from killing others.

And killing people via death penalty even less so.

It's a start, though

 

[Koldo]

And killing people via death penalty even less so.

It's a start, though

A start for what...?
Reducing homicide rates?

It doesn't make much of a difference whether death penalty is applied or not when it comes down to that.
It all comes down to whether one belives it is a proper way to deal with certain crimes, more than anything else.
I, for one, have no problem with killing murderers if they are granted proper means to prove their innocence.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I wonder how many attitudes will change when it's proven the first innocent person went through one of these chop and hack style executions?

 

[Koldo]

I wonder how many attitudes will change when it's proven the first innocent person went through one of these chop and hack style executions?

Do you know how many executions on the USA were later considered wrongfully commited?
I am looking for an actual data report on that.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Do you know how many executions on the USA were later considered wrongfully commited?
I am looking for an actual data report on that.

I do not. I know it happens, and even just one is far too great of a risk.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Okay guys, I'm gonna unwatch (unsubscribe from) this thread for management purposes. If you quote me I might not notice it. If you need anything from me, please PM.

My regards.

 

[Koldo]

I do not. I know it happens, and even just one is far too great of a risk.

That's for each person to decide.

 

[methylatedghosts]

A start for what...?
Reducing homicide rates?

It doesn't make much of a difference whether death penalty is applied or not when it comes down to that.
It all comes down to whether one belives it is a proper way to deal with certain crimes, more than anything else.
I, for one, have no problem with killing murderers if they are granted proper means to prove their innocence.

It's a start in reducing the number of people being killed by others. Having the death penalties perpetuates the idea that killing others can be justified. And when you have that idea, it becomes easier to justify other killings, and so that idea remains present in society. If you hold the belief that killing is never justified, that it is never ok to end the life of another person, then you must lead that belief in action. And that's my belief - that killing another person is never ok.

 

[Koldo]

It's a start in reducing the number of people being killed by others. Having the death penalties perpetuates the idea that killing others can be justified. And when you have that idea, it becomes easier to justify other killings, and so that idea remains present in society. If you hold the belief that killing is never justified, that it is never ok to end the life of another person, then you must lead that belief in action. And that's my belief - that killing another person is never ok.

Sure. But there is no argument to be had there, since I simply don't share your sentiments I can just completely dismiss this rationale.

 

[Pegg]

If you want to stop killing people, you stop killing people and return to them their rights to exist.

I dont think anyone has the 'right' to exist. Life is a gift given to each of us... and those who dont respect that gift are the ones who tread all over it and treat it as worthless. They certainly dont have the 'right' to live with that attitude.

We belong to God, he created us, he gives us life but he is not obligated to give us life... so no, life is not a right. And God says he will take away the life of the one who kills life. So a murder most certainly does not have the right to live.

Those are not problems solved by the death sentence. Sometimes people who haven't murdered someone escape and then do murder someone.

Do you believe in Satan the devil? He is about to receive a death sentence. If God is going to destroy that wicked spirit for all the murder he has done, then what makes a human murderer any less worthy of death?