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No Gods Before Me

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
There is a passage in the bible that states:

Exodus 20:3-5 (KJV)
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Now I am posing this question to all theists. Does this implicitly state that no other Gods but the Abrahamic God, exist? Or that other Gods exist, but one will not worship and bow down before them? I read it as the latter, maybe because I have polytheistic leanings. I am asking this because upon discussion with a friend, she said she does not believe in other Gods because in the Bible it says not to have any other gods before hers. That prompted my response that acknowledging that another god exists is no blasphemous or against that statement, as long as she is not worshipping hte other deity.

Anyways, thoughts?

EDIT: Mods, if this needs to be moved into scriptural debate please do so, I was unsure quite where to post this.
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
It seems, by even mentioning other gods, there is an acknowledgment of other ones. The way it reads, it does sound like an instruction to worship that particular god "first and foremost" as it were. Not to set any of the other gods above or ahead of them. Sounds very prideful and "all about me" really.
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
When faced by implicit statements, it is a good idea for the reader to look elsewhere in the book to see whether the implicit statement is supported or not, I would suggest looking up in the other verses in the bible and check whether it is possible that the verses you quoted imply that there are other gods.
 

Akivah

Well-Known Member
a friend [sic] said she does not believe in other Gods because in the Bible it says not to have any other gods before hers.

The bible itself references gods that other people believe in. Such as the Egyptian gods that were impotent before the Exodus and the gods that failed to ignite a sacrifice by a bunch of priests. Even today, we can see that other people have beliefs in other gods such as in Buddhism, Christianity, or Satanism. Recognizing that other people have beliefs in different gods, shouldn't affect a person's belief in their god(s). I mean, how did your friend fare in her ancient history classes. Does she refuse to believe that many people once worshiped Zeus?
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
The bible itself references gods that other people believe in. Such as the Egyptian gods that were impotent before the Exodus and the gods that failed to ignite a sacrifice by a bunch of priests. Even today, we can see that other people have beliefs in other gods such as in Buddhism, Christianity, or Satanism. Recognizing that other people have beliefs in different gods, shouldn't affect a person's belief in their god(s). I mean, how did your friend fare in her ancient history classes. Does she refuse to believe that many people once worshiped Zeus?

The way she explains it, is she refuses to believe or see them as actual Gods that exist, and this seems to be common among monotheists.

What I am asking is, why? It never states that that is the case, or that that is even necessary. It just says that one cannot bow before those gods. Even when I was Catholic, I did not view other gods with disbelief, I merely did not pray to them.

Where does this, only the Abrahamic God Exists complex, come from in maintstream Christianity?
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
There is a passage in the bible that states:

Exodus 20:3-5 (KJV)
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Now I am posing this question to all theists. Does this implicitly state that no other Gods but the Abrahamic God, exist? Or that other Gods exist, but one will not worship and bow down before them? I read it as the latter, maybe because I have polytheistic leanings. I am asking this because upon discussion with a friend, she said she does not believe in other Gods because in the Bible it says not to have any other gods before hers. That prompted my response that acknowledging that another god exists is no blasphemous or against that statement, as long as she is not worshipping hte other deity.

Anyways, thoughts?

EDIT: Mods, if this needs to be moved into scriptural debate please do so, I was unsure quite where to post this.

Generally our Rabbis and our scholars have understood it to mean that no other gods exist, there is only God; but even if you believe that other gods might exist, you still should not worship any gods but God.

Of course, this commandment was given to the Jews-- it was never given to or intended for non-Jews.

Traditionally, we believe that monotheism is correct universally, and to be preferred even for non-Jews in their religions, but we also have held that non-Jews have far more leeway concerning theological error than Jews do, and if they worship many gods but otherwise live just and righteous lives, they will still be given entrance into the World To Come.
 

nazz

Doubting Thomas
There is a passage in the bible that states:

Exodus 20:3-5 (KJV)
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Now I am posing this question to all theists. Does this implicitly state that no other Gods but the Abrahamic God, exist? Or that other Gods exist, but one will not worship and bow down before them? I read it as the latter, maybe because I have polytheistic leanings. I am asking this because upon discussion with a friend, she said she does not believe in other Gods because in the Bible it says not to have any other gods before hers. That prompted my response that acknowledging that another god exists is no blasphemous or against that statement, as long as she is not worshipping hte other deity.

Anyways, thoughts?

EDIT: Mods, if this needs to be moved into scriptural debate please do so, I was unsure quite where to post this.
I think when it was written it probably meant the latter. However it can be interpreted as the former in light of later passages written in the Bible. Part of the Jewish journey from polytheism to henotheism to monotheism. Still either way there is a recognition that people can have mental conceptions of other gods that are real to them.
 
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The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
There is a passage in the bible that states:

Exodus 20:3-5 (KJV)
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Now I am posing this question to all theists. Does this implicitly state that no other Gods but the Abrahamic God, exist? Or that other Gods exist, but one will not worship and bow down before them? I read it as the latter, maybe because I have polytheistic leanings. I am asking this because upon discussion with a friend, she said she does not believe in other Gods because in the Bible it says not to have any other gods before hers. That prompted my response that acknowledging that another god exists is no blasphemous or against that statement, as long as she is not worshipping hte other deity.

Anyways, thoughts?

EDIT: Mods, if this needs to be moved into scriptural debate please do so, I was unsure quite where to post this.
The way I think of it; Yahweh was a war god to the Canaanites. He gotten so powerful from this self destructive species that he put himself above the other gods to mankind and slowly took the others down, suffocating them of worship and making humans forget about them or perhaps even killing them.
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
The way I think of it; Yahweh was a war god to the Canaanites. He gotten so powerful from this self destructive species that he put himself above the other gods to mankind and slowly took the others down, suffocating them of worship and making humans forget about them or perhaps even killing them.
I read once that a deities power is from its worshipers.
If this is true, would it not make sense for deities to limit the number of worshipers of competing deities?
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
I read once that a deities power is from its worshipers.
If this is true, would it not make sense for deities to limit the number of worshipers of competing deities?

That is a concept I have pondered for a time, and I believe it to be pretty accurate. Only in the sense that if there is no one that worships that god, is it a God anymore? But that is another thread topic in itself I think.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
I read once that a deities power is from its worshipers.
If this is true, would it not make sense for deities to limit the number of worshipers of competing deities?
Yeah. I'm pretty much thinking of Yahweh as a stubborn child who wants to get his way and other deities on the Canaanite pantheon weren't aware of Yahweh (the war god) getting more powerful and becoming mankind's favored god.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Yeah. I'm pretty much thinking of Yahweh as a stubborn child who wants to get his way and other deities on the Canaanite pantheon weren't aware of Yahweh (the war god) getting more powerful and becoming mankind's favored god.

Would it be accurate to say that the god honored by the early monotheistic traditions is the same god as the one honored by them now, though? The understanding of this god has changed so substantially, that the case can be made that it isn't the same god. In other words, I'm not really sure which understanding of the one-god could be said to be favored. The one that represents pure love? The one that represents transcendent, abstract being? The one that represents ruthless justice?
 

gsa

Well-Known Member
I think that the academic consensus among historians is that it implied monolatrism at some point in time; by a certain point, however, it was the most exclusive example of monotheism. It is also clear that it probably wasn't an example of equal standing at the time; there's no suggestion that the power of the other gods matches the one depicted in the Torah.

One mistake I think that we make when we read these texts is that we are imposing later commentary on them. That's perfectly fine within a religious tradition, but the rationalists especially (Aquinas, Maimonides, etc.) did not write or compile these texts. It isn't even clear that Paul was a monotheist in the sense that we use that term; he seems to acknowledge the existence of other gods and lords on earth and in the heavens.

What do I make of all of this? There's unevenness and diversity of thought within the texts, but it is pretty clear about what (or who) is the proper subject of worship and obedience and trust. I don't know that the various authors were concerned as much as later commentators were with the question of what beings populated the heavens. They certainly knew one who did, and with whom they had a covenant. That basically rendered a lot of other speculation moot.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Would it be accurate to say that the god honored by the early monotheistic traditions is the same god as the one honored by them now, though? The understanding of this god has changed so substantially, that the case can be made that it isn't the same god. In other words, I'm not really sure which understanding of the one-god could be said to be favored. The one that represents pure love? The one that represents transcendent, abstract being? The one that represents ruthless justice?
A guy that wants followers has to have one of two skills: 1. Be very good at leading. 2. Be very good at lying

The answer to your question comes off to me as explained by the latter. Imagine Yahweh on top of it all now, reigning supreme over the earth. But what's that? Yahweh sees competition even still, and he knows that in order to not lose dominance over humans (by as many followers as possible), he must advertise.

In Yahweh's situation, it's only logical to do the same. He must change his personality to relate to the humans as much as possible, otherwise he'll lose them. Back in the days the Bible describes, God was free to be a tyrant, he wasn't afraid of offending anybody, he knew he could threaten them and make them his slaves. But as time moved on, more gods came up and Yahweh must appear peaceful to the hippies, powerful to the masculine, unlimited to the rich, and funny to the humorous. God needs to live up to as many feats as he can, to get as many followers as he can so he can once again rule this earth as a tyrant.

Human worshippers, gotta catch'em all!
 

HekaMa'atRa

Member
When faced by implicit statements, it is a good idea for the reader to look elsewhere in the book to see whether the implicit statement is supported or not, I would suggest looking up in the other verses in the bible and check whether it is possible that the verses you quoted imply that there are other gods.

To me that doesn't really make matters more clear because the Bible was written by many different authors who all probably ha different views on the topic.

But as a Kemetic who doesn't believe a word in the Bible or that the story of Exodus even happened - As an outsider looking in, I see it that the authors of the Bible did believe in other Gods, felt theirs was the most powerful, and wrote their scripture in a way to convert and control as many converts as possible.
 

Iti oj

Global warming is real and we need to act
Premium Member
So who turned.the.Egyptian priests staff into a snake?
 

gsa

Well-Known Member
So who turned.the.Egyptian priests staff into a snake?

Are you asking under the assumption that it happened historically, or within the self-contained logic, such that it exists anyway, of Exodus?
 
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