Experiencing God

[Sonofason]

Now, that was bonkers. Pity, the thread had potential. Sorry to see it devolve into dogmatism.

In post 13, you had said,

...we need to also consider that it's the human brain that creates the feeling something is real. That is, the feeling something is real is not a property of the things in this world, but a creation of the brain. So it would seem possible that the brain could create that feeling at times even when something is not actually "out there", real in the world.

I'm not sure I would go so far as to say that "the human brain creates the feeling something is real." The brain and the nervous system is a complex intricately designed system. It is a dynamic part of an organic machine that has been craftily constructed to interpret and react to environmental influences and stimuli. The brain doesn't just make stuff up. If it does, it is malfunctioning.

It is possible for this system to malfunction, which can result in a misinterpretation of the chemical signals it has received or is receiving.

So when I said, "Wake up!! You're dreaming. You're not really hear typing on your keyboard. None of this is real", I was simply poking some fun at your idea that the brain is responsible for making up this stuff we call our five senses.

The environment is very real. It affects our bodies. And our brains categorize and recognize those affects, and cause us to react to them.

If someone is experiencing a burning sensation, either they are being burned, or their machine has a defect.

If someone is experiencing God, they are either experiencing God, or their machine has a defect.

Since some people experience the sensation of being burned, when they are being burned, and some people experience the sensation of being burned, when they are not being burned because their system is flawed, we can expect the same kind of results when people experience God.

There are some people who believe they are experiencing God, because they are actually experiencing God, and there are other people who believe they are experiencing God, only because their system is flawed. Both kinds of people exist. Some people who think they experience God actually experience God. And some people who think they experience God, are not experiencing God.

However, a person who does not know the concept of being burned, nor the sensation of being burned could not inform others that they are experiencing being burned if they should be experiencing being burned for the first time. While they would certainly know that they were experiencing some kind of pain, they might not yet associate that particular pain with the common experience of being burned. They will certainly recognize that particular pain in the future, if they should ever experience it again, but they would not know at that time, how to relate that pain to others, not until they learned about the experience of pain from others. They would have to give that pain a name or some other symbolic expression to represent that sensation for the purposes of communication to others.

Thus, I would say, that there is a possibility that some people may experience God, and not even know it. While others who have greater understanding and knowledge of God would be more able to label their experience as an experience of God.

I will admit. Sometimes we get it wrong.
It is quite possible to misinterpret the sensations we receive, and I suppose that is what you are getting at. But it is my guess that not everyone misinterprets a pin prick as being burned, and not everyone misinterprets a happy moment for an experience of God. Some people experience God.

 

[Sonofason]

Just as there seem to be certain underlying commonalities between people who identify a certain kind of experience with god and people who don't. There's actually a fairly extensive literature on this kind of experience. It happens to people who come to believe all sorts of things about it.

No doubt. Can you provide some examples for me?

 

[Sonofason]

All experiences of god are just that, an experience, the experience itself isn't god, the experience is contaminated by the mind, so no two experiences are truly the same, or even real.

All experiences of being burned by fire are just that, an experience, the experience itself isn't fire, the experience is contaminated by the mind, so no two experiences are truly the same, or even real.

This statement of mine is no less absurd than yours.

 

[Sonofason]

Two things caused me to believe I needed a Savior.
1) I saw myself in a very realistic light and had to honestly admit I was sinful.
2) I saw the demonic realm and knew I was powerless against such evil and realized I needed someone more powerful to save me and that was only Jesus Christ.

That is very interesting. I must tell you that these two statements you just made are as familiar to me as though I had just stated them myself.

 

[idav]

No doubt. Can you provide some examples for me?

All people need to experience god any more is the god helmet.

Through the Wormhole: The God Experience : Video : Science Channel

 

[psychoslice]

All experiences of being burned by fire are just that, an experience, the experience itself isn't fire, the experience is contaminated by the mind, so no two experiences are truly the same, or even real.

This statement of mine is no less absurd than yours.

Yes your fire analogy is right, the fire that burns is just that, an experience, an experience of pain, but the experience of fire isn't the fire, big difference also if you let yourself think about it.

 

[psychoslice]

There is only one God.

Yea your god lol.

 

[Sonofason]

All people need to experience god any more is the god helmet.

Through the Wormhole: The God Experience : Video : Science Channel

And of course, you have experienced God without this helmet, and with this helmet. Is this correct?

I mean, obviously, you wouldn't be making a claim that you have not verified, would you?

 

[Sonofason]

All people need to experience god any more is the god helmet.

Through the Wormhole: The God Experience : Video : Science Channel

Video showed nothing, by the way.

 

[Sonofason]

Yes your fire analogy is right, the fire that burns is just that, an experience, an experience of pain, but the experience of fire isn't the fire, big difference also if you let yourself think about it.

So what you are saying is that fire doesn't need to have ever existed in order for one to experience being burned by fire. Is that right?

 

[Sonofason]

Yea your god lol.

Well, I'm, willing to share.

 

[idav]

Video showed nothing, by the way.

Darn it I need posted the wrong one. Sorry.
Michael Shermer Out of Body Experiment - YouTube

 

[Sonofason]

Darn it I need posted the wrong one. Sorry.
[youtube]nCVzz96zKA0[/youtube]
Michael Shermer Out of Body Experiment - YouTube

Okay, that was a little better.

But I am not convinced by what I have seen of anything in particular, other than electromagnetic waves can alter brain function. I don't know if these people are drawing from memory, experiencing real spiritual experiences, or what.

Everything we perceive is perceived in the mind. When you toy with the mind, you toy with one's ability to perceive.

If God or the devil desires that you experience him, it must take place in the mind, in the place of perception.

That's scary stuff. Drugs can have similar effects on a person's mind.

 

[viole]

I often think I want to tell of my experiences. What stops me is not that I perceive that it belongs only to me, although it is inevitably my experience and up to me whether or not I share it, but because I don't believe that I can by sharing my experience cause another person to feel what I feel when I experience God. And because I do not desire to be ridiculed for that which is dear to me.

Well, the last sentence is the real right reason, isn't it?

But why is that? Why do you fear to be ridiculed if you really, deep inside, believe that you had a true experience of God?

You guys maintain that Christianity might be true because of people who sacrificed their lives for that belief. Because of all the Christians who risk their heads, today, by staying Christians in very dangerous and hostile places.

And you do not desire to be ridiculed by atheists in a forum and for that reason you keep your experiences hidden? What will God think of you? Is being ridiculed so much worse than being beheaded?

Well, I do not fear to be ridiculed. I hold positions that theists would be fully entitled to ridicule.

So, why aren't I afraid? Is that because of my heroic character or is that because of the higher plausibility of my claims?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Monk Of Reason]

I am amazed that so many believers that have had "spiritual" experiences won't share their experiences with others. It ought not surprise me however, as I too have had "spiritual" experiences that I just will not share with anyone. I gather that the telling of such experiences puts one at risk of throwing one's pearls to the swine.

My experience of God has actually brought me to a point where I no longer require faith to believe in God. I am absolutely certain of his existence and presence in my life.

So I guess that leaves me with a question for those who have had God experiences. What do you think it was that you did which enabled you to experience what you experienced? What did you do to invoke God's attention?

A good example of god speaking to me was at a Church convention and I felt like I was slipping in my faith. I prayed and prayed. Then after a while I had a good cry and went out into the woods surrounding the convention and I just sat there. Suddenly I felt this surreal peace and calm about myself and I felt clear and happy. Clear is a strange word to use but It was the best one to describe it. I suddenly felt "presence" in everything. As if god was all around me.

It brought me to tears again. And I felt like my soul had been cleansed and anything that had been bothering me had suddenly been washed off.



I have felt similar experiences later in life as I got older that had nothing to do with god but profound revelation and epitomes. Both are highly spiritual experiences but now I no longer see the connection with god. I found that every time I had a strong interaction with "god" it was because I was trying to or had it in my mind. When I had the experiences seemingly independent of god it made me wonder and I've done research. Now I know that everything we feel, think or experience is a process in the brain. That humbled me down quite a bit since then.

 

[Gnostic Seeker]

If the OP knows there is God, he is no longer a believer, but a Gnostic (one who knows).

As for how I know God- there is not anywhere I could go to escape Him. He is the unchanging, the ground of all being. To breathe in and breathe out can lead one to know God when the mind becomes free from everyday attachments.

 

[idav]

Okay, that was a little better.

But I am not convinced by what I have seen of anything in particular, other than electromagnetic waves can alter brain function. I don't know if these people are drawing from memory, experiencing real spiritual experiences, or what.

Everything we perceive is perceived in the mind. When you toy with the mind, you toy with one's ability to perceive.

If God or the devil desires that you experience him, it must take place in the mind, in the place of perception.

That's scary stuff. Drugs can have similar effects on a person's mind.

All we know of to trigger the mind to do things is with physics, via magnetic pulse or something we know is real. If anything has the ability to influence us from the outside then it has to be something physical that the brain is sensitive too. Just saying it is a broken receiver just doesn't cut it. There is no evidence our brains work like the dish network.

 

[Nakosis]

All we know of to trigger the mind to do things is with physics, via magnetic pulse or something we know is real. If anything has the ability to influence us from the outside then it has to be something physical that the brain is sensitive too. Just saying it is a broken receiver just doesn't cut it. There is no evidence our brains work like the dish network.

Communication through brainwaves...

http://www.newsweek.com/emailing-your-brainwaves-future-communication-266155

I've also heard they can control games through brainwaves. (Pong? I think)

So soon text will be dead?

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Trouble with anything like this is , it could just all be just literally in your head .

 

[psychoslice]

So what you are saying is that fire doesn't need to have ever existed in order for one to experience being burned by fire. Is that right?

There is only a mind body organism that experiences fire, if you believe you are the mind body organism then yes, you have experienced fire, or should I say the reaction of fire touching the nerves. But we are not the mind body organism, so who feels the fire ?.