Do We Really Need This Kind of Bigotry?

[LuisDantas]

You're the one who said it.

Don't misrepresent what I said, please. That is not something I take lightly to.

You're also the one who is all over the place on whether Jewishness is an ethnicity or not.

Nope, you just fail to understand me. I'm sorry that you do, but it is still you failing to understand me.

But Jewishness certainly seems to be defined quite similarly to an ethnicity or "race", if you will.

I fail to see why. I certainly disagree.

So if a Jewish person is opposed to "intermarriage", then it is akin to racism, if not outright racism.

That may happen, of course. But not automatically.

I'm just following this to its logical conclusion.

Not by any logic I can follow, you are not.

You can play games all you want.

So can you. But please do not.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Don't misrepresent what I said, please. That is not something I take lightly to.




Nope, you just fail to understand me. I'm sorry that you do, but it is still you failing to understand me.




I fail to see why. I certainly disagree.




That may happen, of course. But not automatically.




So can you. But please do not.

Well, it's quite obvious we're not going to get anywhere with this. You have fun with your contradictions and I'll stick with the obvious.

 

[LuisDantas]

I will hope you learn to overcome your bigotry then, St. Frank.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I will hope you learn to overcome your bigotry then, St. Frank.

Are you for real? Stop projecting. It's not cute.

 

[LuisDantas]

Yes, I am for real. I mean every word. And it is not meant to be cute, but rather clear.

 

[Poeticus]

Beyond that, it is such an aberrant event that most Muslims seem to actually forget of it as a possibility when asked about freedom of marriage in Islam.

I have several times been told that Muslims are free to marry as they please, sometimes with the qualifier "as long as it is to another Muslim or Person of the Book", meaning a Jewish or Christian person.

But further research eventually shows that it is true for Muslim men, but not for women. Muslimahs are expected to either renounce the faith before marrying non-Muslim men.

Same-sex Muslim marriages, of course, are literally unheard of.

A very horrid and discouraging reality. But on the bright side, there are Muslims that have a track record for being very open. And these are the Ismailis. Ismaili Muslims are very progressive in their socio-cultural outlook. Both men and women usually have a right to marry who they please. In the Indic context, for example, if an Ismaili Muslimah falls in love with a Hindu or a Parsi or a Sikh or an Indian Buddhist, she is not threatened nor oppressed with the sentiment that she mush renounce her Ismaili identity. In fact, Indians love weddings so much that in an interfaith Ismaili & non-Ismaili wedding there will be a Muslim procession and a Hindu or Parsi or Sikh one to go along with it. In the eyes of Sunni and Shia rigorists, this is of course an abominable act.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes, I am for real. I mean every word. And it is not meant to be cute, but rather clear.

I wasn't joking with your psychological projections. Nothing I said was bigoted and, in fact, my point in this thread was call out bigotry. Funny how you're trying to turn it around on me, while you're excusing the bigotry. Now, I'm going to stop before I say some things that will get me into trouble.

 

[oldbadger]

I am firmly opposed to intermarriage, and I still think those protesters were acting in a terribly disgusting manner.

I acknowledge your disapproval of aggressive and bullying demonstrations of any kind, especially ones intended to spoil a special day such as a wedding.

For what its worth to you (?) I can't support your firm opposition to intermarriage.

In Britain there is a very well known Rabbi who approves of homosexual intermarriage.... simply believes in love (a clue:... and good cooking ) God bless him. That's the way the world needs to go.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I acknowledge your disapproval of aggressive and bullying demonstrations of any kind, especially ones intended to spoil a special day such as a wedding.

For what its worth to you (?) I can't support your firm opposition to intermarriage.

In Britain there is a very well known Rabbi who approves of homosexual intermarriage.... simply believes in love (a clue:... and good cooking ) God bless him. That's the way the world needs to go.

:clap

That's as it should be. Oldbadger, you're such a horrible bigot.

 

[oldbadger]

:clap

That's as it should be. Oldbadger, you're such a horrible bigot.

I read the debate.......

Mrs B don't think I'm a bigot. She thinks I'm big... and hot!

 

[Smart_Guy]

I think it is an Israeli vs Arab thing, not a Jewish vs Muslim. The protestors seem to be repeating "Arab" this and that. Unless they do not know the difference between ethnicity, nationality and religion!

But anyways, why are they doing this? I don't mind marrying an Israeli girl!

 

[Mycroft]

I think it is an Israeli vs Arab thing, not a Jewish vs Muslim. The protestors seem to be repeating "Arab" this and that. Unless they do not know the difference between ethnicity, nationality and religion!

But anyways, why are they doing this? I don't mind marrying an Israeli girl!

I think they probably do, and just don't like Arabs.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

To equate opposition to intermarriage with bigotry is ignorant to such an extreme as to suggest an agenda driven ignorance.

Wikipedia defines bigotry as "a state of mind where a person views other groups with fear, distrust, prejudice or hatred solely on the basis of ethnicity, race, religion, national origin, gender, disability, sexual orientation, socioeconomic status, or other group characteristics."​

None of this need apply in the case of opposition to Jews marrying non-Jews, and it is an outrageous slander to insist that it applies in Levite's case.

Unlike Christianity, with its focus on individual grace and salvation, Judaism is communal (or, if you will, tribal). It is a covenantal religion permeated with a sense of Peoplehood and, because of its history, often obsessed with concerns about assimilation. Anything perceived as erosive is resisted. It has absolutely nothing to do with generalizations about the quality of the other and everything to do with the fact of otherness.

Some here owe Levite an apology for the baseless and ignorant ugliness directed against him.

 

[Mycroft]

To equate opposition to intermarriage with bigotry is ignorant to such an extreme as to suggest an agenda driven ignorance.

Wikipedia defines bigotry as "a state of mind where a person views other groups with fear, distrust, prejudice or hatred solely on the basis of ethnicity, race, religion, national origin, gender, disability, sexual orientation, socioeconomic status, or other group characteristics."​

None of this need apply in the case of opposition to Jews marrying non-Jews, and it is an outrageous slander to insist that it applies in Levite's case.

It rather depends upon the context of the opposition, doesn't it?

 

[Revoltingest]

Let's look at the bright side of this. Sure, sure, some Jews are bigots, fanatics, & violent.
(Nobody's perfect.) But even in a proclaimed Jewish state, the authorities & most of the
people allowed & even defended a couple whose relationship is an anathema to so many.
And so what if Levite has some personal peccadilloes. Don't we all? Even I do! It's true!

 

[Alceste]

Let's look at the bright side of this. Sure, sure, some Jews are bigots, fanatics, & violent.
(Nobody's perfect.) But even in a proclaimed Jewish state, the authorities & most of the
people allowed & even defended a couple whose relationship is an anathema to so many.
And so what if Levite has some personal peccadilloes. Don't we all? Even I do! It's true!

Actually, it is illegal in Israel for Jews to marry Non-Jews, and an investigation into this specific anti-miscegination organization by Haaretz found ties to the government in the form of direct funding to the tune of $175,000 per year.

So I am not so sure this is a lunatic fringe we're talking about, rejected by the majority in Israel.

Source: I clicked all the links.

 

[Smart_Guy]

I think they probably do, and just don't like Arabs.

Oh

I don't dislike anyone just because of who they are.

 

[metis]

Why do Jewish people dislike Muslims?

This is simply not true and is a stereotype.

 

[metis]

The "bottom line" to me is that this couple had the choice to do what they wanted to do, and I fully agree with their right to do as such, and I know Levite would agree. And those who opposed the marriage had the right to their opinions on the matter as well. But what I was very much bothered by was the fact that these demonstrators were being rude and trying to force their opinion on others.

 

[Draupadi]

This is simply not true and is a stereotype.

No it is because of the Israeli-Palestinian war. And the way some silly Muslims propagate the conspiracy theories that most Jews are always against the Muslims because they somehow think the latter's religion is the best so wants to nip it in the bud, or because they somehow know beforehand that the Muslims will dominate the world in the future. I have seen fairly moderate Muslims around me support the genocide of Jews by Hitler! Not to mention some anti-Semitic hadiths which say that even stones will help Muslims locate Jews hiding behind them, when they will be on a mission to kill them before the Judgement Day. Whether these hadiths are genuine or not is not the concern of most people since they are widely available.

As for Levite's comment it is rather a matter of preference but no less prejudiced. Whether be it to maintain the exclusivity of race and/or religion or any other reason prejudice is prejudice. But I agree with what Revoltingest say that many of us are not free from it, including myself. But I will admit that I am prejudiced.