The Disbelievers

[FearGod]

I wonder how verses 6:24-29 describing the disbelievers

Verse 6:24 says they invent the lies and believe it to be the truth.
Verse 6:25 says that they won't believe any sign showed to them and they regard religion as the myth of the ancient people.
Verse 6:26 says that they mislead themselves and the others.
Verse 6:27 says that they'll regret and wish if they were among the believers.
Verses 6:28 says that even if given more chance then they'll be back to their usual deeds
Verse 6:29 says that they used to deny the afterlife

See how they will lie about themselves. And lost from them will be what they used to invent. (6:24)

And among them are those who listen to you, but We have placed over their hearts coverings, lest they understand it, and in their ears deafness. And if they should see every sign, they will not believe in it. Even when they come to you arguing with you, those who disbelieve say, "This is not but legends of the former peoples." (6:25)

​

And they prevent [others] from him and are [themselves] remote from him. And they do not destroy except themselves, but they perceive [it] not. (6:26)

If you could but see when they are made to stand before the Fire and will say, "Oh, would that we could be returned [to life on earth] and not deny the signs of our Lord and be among the believers." (6:27)

But what they concealed before has [now] appeared to them. And even if they were returned, they would return to that which they were forbidden; and indeed, they are liars. (6:28)

And they say, "There is none but our worldly life, and we will not be resurrected." (6:29)
​

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I wonder how verses 6:24-29 describing the disbelievers

Verse 6:24 says they invent the lies and believe it to be the truth.
Verse 6:25 says that they won't believe any sign showed to them and they regard religion as the myth of the ancient people.
Verse 6:26 says that they mislead themselves and the others.
Verse 6:27 says that they'll regret and wish if they were among the believers.
Verses 6:28 says that even if given more chance then they'll be back to their usual deeds
Verse 6:29 says that they used to deny the afterlife

See how they will lie about themselves. And lost from them will be what they used to invent. (6:24)

And among them are those who listen to you, but We have placed over their hearts coverings, lest they understand it, and in their ears deafness. And if they should see every sign, they will not believe in it. Even when they come to you arguing with you, those who disbelieve say, "This is not but legends of the former peoples." (6:25)

​

And they prevent [others] from him and are [themselves] remote from him. And they do not destroy except themselves, but they perceive [it] not. (6:26)

If you could but see when they are made to stand before the Fire and will say, "Oh, would that we could be returned [to life on earth] and not deny the signs of our Lord and be among the believers." (6:27)

But what they concealed before has [now] appeared to them. And even if they were returned, they would return to that which they were forbidden; and indeed, they are liars. (6:28)

And they say, "There is none but our worldly life, and we will not be resurrected." (6:29)
​

To sum up my objections as succinctly as possible:

So?

 

[Alceste]

Amazing, so the fanatical religionists of yesteryear were exactly as inclined to dehumanize and repress people of reason as the fanatical religionists of today. What a surprise.

 

[Penumbra]

Tribalism, dehumanizing people, etc. This idea that if people are different than you, they must all share a common set of negative traits. You call some people disbelievers but with respect to other religions, you're a disbeliever.

These things get old.

 

[LuisDantas]

Indeed, the question that fits is:

So?

What are we supposed to make of that text, other than that the Quran states that people are only respectable when they agree with it, and should probably be kept away from innocent children who might think that such hateful vitriol should be taken seriously by someone?

 

[Sumit]

I wonder how verses 6:24-29 describing the disbelievers

Verse 6:24 says they invent the lies and believe it to be the truth.
Verse 6:25 says that they won't believe any sign showed to them and they regard religion as the myth of the ancient people.
Verse 6:26 says that they mislead themselves and the others.
Verse 6:27 says that they'll regret and wish if they were among the believers.
Verses 6:28 says that even if given more chance then they'll be back to their usual deeds
Verse 6:29 says that they used to deny the afterlife

See how they will lie about themselves. And lost from them will be what they used to invent. (6:24)

And among them are those who listen to you, but We have placed over their hearts coverings, lest they understand it, and in their ears deafness. And if they should see every sign, they will not believe in it. Even when they come to you arguing with you, those who disbelieve say, "This is not but legends of the former peoples." (6:25)

​

And they prevent [others] from him and are [themselves] remote from him. And they do not destroy except themselves, but they perceive [it] not. (6:26)

If you could but see when they are made to stand before the Fire and will say, "Oh, would that we could be returned [to life on earth] and not deny the signs of our Lord and be among the believers." (6:27)

But what they concealed before has [now] appeared to them. And even if they were returned, they would return to that which they were forbidden; and indeed, they are liars. (6:28)

And they say, "There is none but our worldly life, and we will not be resurrected." (6:29)
​

If a person do not believe in Islam, Allah is responsible for that. He sealed the heart of disbelievers hence keeping them away from path of Islam.

Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. (Quran 2.6)

Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment. (Quran2.7)

So acc to these verses who deserves hell, Allah or disbelievers???

 

[FearGod]

If a person do not believe in Islam, Allah is responsible for that. He sealed the heart of disbelievers hence keeping them away from path of Islam.

Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. (Quran 2.6)

Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment. (Quran2.7)

So acc to these verses who deserves hell, Allah or disbelievers???

What about if God gives the guidance for the Satan as well?
Of course God have already put X on the Satan,so he may put X as well on some humans and let them go astray.

 

[Sumit]

What about if God gives the guidance for the Satan as well?

Any Verse from Quran, the final book of Allah??

 

[Amechania]

If a person do not believe in Islam, Allah is responsible for that. He sealed the heart of disbelievers hence keeping them away from path of Islam.

Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe. (Quran 2.6)

Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment. (Quran2.7)

So acc to these verses who deserves hell, Allah or disbelievers???

it really ought to be interpreted as an admonition not to force Islam on infidels since it would be pointless, but something tells me that interpretation has always been the minority opinion.

 

[Breathe]

<snip>

So, if a person did not believe in Islam, and becomes Muslim, was he a disbeliever? Can a disbeliever 'change', or is a person who is a disbeliever never change -- so anyone who becomes a Muslim was never a disbeliever?

 

[Debater Slayer]

I wonder how verses 6:24-29 describing the disbelievers

Verse 6:24 says they invent the lies and believe it to be the truth.
Verse 6:25 says that they won't believe any sign showed to them and they regard religion as the myth of the ancient people.
Verse 6:26 says that they mislead themselves and the others.
Verse 6:27 says that they'll regret and wish if they were among the believers.
Verses 6:28 says that even if given more chance then they'll be back to their usual deeds
Verse 6:29 says that they used to deny the afterlife

See how they will lie about themselves. And lost from them will be what they used to invent. (6:24)

And among them are those who listen to you, but We have placed over their hearts coverings, lest they understand it, and in their ears deafness. And if they should see every sign, they will not believe in it. Even when they come to you arguing with you, those who disbelieve say, "This is not but legends of the former peoples." (6:25)

​

And they prevent [others] from him and are [themselves] remote from him. And they do not destroy except themselves, but they perceive [it] not. (6:26)

If you could but see when they are made to stand before the Fire and will say, "Oh, would that we could be returned [to life on earth] and not deny the signs of our Lord and be among the believers." (6:27)

But what they concealed before has [now] appeared to them. And even if they were returned, they would return to that which they were forbidden; and indeed, they are liars. (6:28)

And they say, "There is none but our worldly life, and we will not be resurrected." (6:29)
​

I'm not a liar, I'm not a deceiver, and I don't try to mislead anyone because of my worldview; in fact, I even wish the people who demonize me for my views well and do my best not to feel any animosity toward them.

My worldview is different from yours, just as yours is different from many others', and I don't think that difference in and of itself should be a reason to demonize other people. If more people understood that, I think the world would be much better off than it is now.

 

[FearGod]

So, if a person did not believe in Islam, and becomes Muslim, was he a disbeliever? Can a disbeliever 'change', or is a person who is a disbeliever never change -- so anyone who becomes a Muslim was never a disbeliever?

Do you work against God,such as pushing people to reject him and try to bring false evidences to support your view?

Do you think that your life will end with death or you are in doubt that there maybe a life after this life ?

Do you think religion is a fact or just a myth of the past ?

Do you try to fight against god's sign in the quran or you just try to understand them ?

 

[LuisDantas]

Do you work against God,such as pushing people to reject him and try to bring false evidences to support your view?

It is nearly unheard of people who do just that.

Are you sure they even exist? What you are describing is not Atheism.

Do you think that your life will end with death or you are in doubt that there maybe a life after this life ?

Many people do. Is that at all a bad thing?

Do you think religion is a fact or just a myth of the past ?

Religion is a fact, although its proper nature and role are very much a matter open to discussion.

Do you try to fight against god's sign in the quran or you just try to understand them ?

What if both options turn out to be the same?

 

[Breathe]

Do you work against God,such as pushing people to reject him and try to bring false evidences to support your view?

Do you think that your life will end with death or you are in doubt that there maybe a life after this life ?

Do you think religion is a fact or just a myth of the past ?

Do you try to fight against god's sign in the quran or you just try to understand them ?

Are those the criteria to being a disbeliever?

To answer:

Do you work against God,such as pushing people to reject him and try to bring false evidences to support your view?

No, I would never do this.

Do you think that your life will end with death or you are in doubt that there maybe a life after this life ?

No; I believe 100% in the Afterlife and God.

Do you think religion is a fact or just a myth of the past ?

It's complicated, but I think religion is to connect us with God, so I suppose I believe religion is true.

Do you try to fight against god's sign in the quran or you just try to understand them ?

Understand as best as I can, and learn; always learn.

 

[FearGod]

It is nearly unheard of people who do just that.

Are you sure they even exist? What you are describing is not Atheism.

[youtube]R9uhE4CT2xM[/youtube]
Richard Dawkins: Creationists know nothing - YouTube

Many people do. Is that at all a bad thing?

Who said it is a bad thing ? i believe there will be a 2nd life because i don't believe that i came here by chance.

Religion is a fact, although its proper nature and role are very much a matter open to discussion.

But many say it is a myth

What if both options turn out to be the same?

How so ?

 

[Alceste]

Do you work against God,such as pushing people to reject him and try to bring false evidences to support your view?

Do you think that your life will end with death or you are in doubt that there maybe a life after this life ?

Do you think religion is a fact or just a myth of the past ?

Do you try to fight against god's sign in the quran or you just try to understand them ?

I absolutely only support my views with evidence that is true. I.e. thoroughly supported by direct observation and sound, deductive reasoning.

Can you say the same?

 

[FearGod]

Are those the criteria to being a disbeliever?

To answer:

No, I would never do this.


No; I believe 100% in the Afterlife and God.


It's complicated, but I think religion is to connect us with God, so I suppose I believe religion is true.


Understand as best as I can, and learn; always learn.

You are absolutely not among those mentioned in the quran and i know that you aren't.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Do you work against God,such as pushing people to reject him and try to bring false evidences to support your view?

I'm not sure what you mean by "work against God." I think a lot of the ideas and teachings in certain religions are harmful, but I don't believe that those ideas came from a god.

I often try to make sure that my positions and opinions are supported by sound evidence, so no, I don't "bring false evidences" to mislead others into accepting my views or adopting them.

Do you think that your life will end with death or you are in doubt that there maybe a life after this life ?

I think there will most likely be nothing after death because I don't see sufficient evidence that there's another life.

Do you think religion is a fact or just a myth of the past ?

It depends on the religion we're talking about as well as its core teachings.

I think some claims in more than one belief system are almost certainly myths, but I find value in some others.

Do you try to fight against god's sign in the quran or you just try to understand them ?

What do you mean by "fighting against" them?

Also, understanding any given concept or idea doesn't mean one has to accept it or find it convincing. I understand a lot of ideas that I believe to be completely incorrect and possibly even harmful.

 

[LuisDantas]

[youtube]R9uhE4CT2xM[/youtube]
Richard Dawkins: Creationists know nothing - YouTube

Where is the false evidence? And how is that "working agains God"?

Do you think atheism could even exist if God did not accept it as valid?

(...) But many say it is a myth

Religion proper isn't a myth. There is too much myth in much of it, though.

How so ?

Understanding a religion in no way implies failing to oppose it.

 

[FearGod]

Where is the false evidence? And how is that "working agains God"?

Do you think atheism could even exist if God did not accept it as valid?

The fake evidence is using the TOE as to reject God's existence.

One sign in the quran says that God wiped out the previous creation and create the new creation from the seeds of the previous ones.

Here is several translations (6:133)

And thy Sustainer alone is self-sufficient, limitless in His grace. If He so wills, He may put an end to you and thereafter cause whom He wills to succeed you - even as He has brought you into being out of other people's seed.

Thy Lord is the Absolute, the Lord of Mercy. If He will, He can remove you and can cause what He will to follow after you, even as He raised you from the seed of other folk.

Your Lord is Free of all wants; (He is) the Lord of Mercy. If He wants, He can wipe you out, and have another people _ whomever He wants _ succeed you, just as He raised you from the genes of a different nation.

And your Lord is the Free of need, the possessor of mercy. If He wills, he can do away with you and give succession after you to whomever He wills, just as He produced you from the descendants of another people.

Your Lord is the self-sufficient One, the merciful. If He wills, He can take you away and replace you by anyone He pleases, just as He raised you from the offspring of other people.

Religion proper isn't a myth. There is too much myth in much of it, though.

i am talking about the quran.

Understanding a religion in no way implies failing to oppose it.

There are some clear signs that the disbelievers will fight against even though it is clear signs.