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Why do you accept the bible as inerrant historical fact?

AmbiguousGuy

Well-Known Member
Then you still have to explain away the many fulfilled prophecies of Baha'u'llah (which have been detailed and listed in several books).

Meaning no offense, but failing that, your statement is reduced to mere hot air.

There are no such fulfilled prophecies, at least to my knowledge. But you're willing to list your very best two or three -- those which you see as having been fulfilled in a remarkable way.

In other words, show me a prophecy made by Baha'u'llah which could not have been made by most anyone.
 

ruffen

Active Member
No fullfilled prophecy will ever be evidence of anything. If I say that this-or-that will happen and then it actually happens, I might just have been lucky, or people might have forgotten all the mistaken prophecies I've made.
 

AmbiguousGuy

Well-Known Member
No fullfilled prophecy will ever be evidence of anything. If I say that this-or-that will happen and then it actually happens, I might just have been lucky, or people might have forgotten all the mistaken prophecies I've made.

Yeah, prophecy appears to be a mind game, like numerology. Anyone can convince themselves of anything.

But I don't think any worthwhile God would want His creations to be gullible. He wouldn't use prophecy to prove Himself.

Just my view of it. Not trying to offend anyone (although I'm sure I have).
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
By the way, I like a lot of what your religion offers.

That's reassuring. :)

But that said, we see God as One and indivisible regardless of how humans have separated and/or recombined Him and His aspects over the millenia. . . .

Peace, :)

Bruce
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
There are no such fulfilled prophecies, at least to my knowledge.

Ignoring your rather abitrary restrictions, here's the list:

Baha'u'llah could--and did!--make many totally accurate prophecies in numerous, unrelated fields in which He could not possibly have had any earthly knowledge or expertise. Gary Matthews has written two books discussing this.

Here's Matthews' overall list of prophecies by Baha'u'llah that he then goes on to discuss in great depth:
What are the developments that have, in the words of Baha'u'llah, 'come to pass on this earth' after being announced and prophesied . . .?
Those of which I am aware, and which I discuss in the following pages, include:

1. The fall from power of the French Emperor Napoleon III and the consequent loss of his empire.
2. The defeat of Germany in two bloody wars, resulting in the 'lamentations of Berlin.'
3. The success and stability of Queen Victoria's reign.
4. The dismissal of 'Ali Pasha as prime minister of Turkey.
5. The overthrow of Sultan 'Abdu'l-Aziz of Turkey.
6. The breakup of the Ottoman Empire, leading to the extinction of the 'outward spendour' of its capital, Constantinople.
7. The downfall of Nasiri'd-Din Shah, the Persian monarch.
8. The advent of constitutional government in Persia.
9. A massive (albeit temporary) decline in the fortunes of monarchy throughout the world.
10. A worldwide erosion of ecclesiastical authority.
11. The collapse of the Muslim Caliphate.
12. The spread of communism, the "Movement of the Left,' and its rise to world power.
13. The catastrophic decline of that same movement, triggered by the collapse of its egalitarian economy.
14. The rise of Israel as a Jewish homeland.
15. The persecution of Jews on the European continent (the Nazi holocaust).
16. America's violent racial struggles.
17. Baha'u'llah's release from the prison of 'Akka and the pitching of His tent on Mount Carmel.
18. The seizure and desecration of Baha'u'llah's House in Baghdad.
19. The failure of all attempts to create schism within the Baha'i Faith.
20. The explosive acceleration of scientific and technological progress.
21. The development of nuclear weapons.
22. The achievement of transmutation of elements, the age-old alchemist's dream.
23. Dire peril for all humanity as a result of that achievement.
24. The discovery that complex elements evolve in nature from simpler ones.
25. The recognition of planets as a necessary by-product of star formation.
26. Space travel.
27. The fruitless search for a 'missing link' between man and ape.
28. The non-existence of a mechanical ether (the supposed light-carrying substance posited by classical physics), and its redefinition as an abstract reality.
29. The breakdown of mechanical models (literal images) as a basis for understanding the physical world.
Gary Matthews, The Challenge of Baha'u'llah, pp. 39-41.
[end quote]
Note: His other book covering this topic is He Cometh With Clouds.

('Abdu'l-Baha stated, similarly, that some forms of cancer are communicable--a fact now verified.)

Peace,

Bruce
 

AmbiguousGuy

Well-Known Member
Ignoring your rather abitrary restrictions, here's the list:
My only restriction is that it has to actually be a successful prediction.

Baha'u'llah could--and did!--make many totally accurate prophecies in numerous, unrelated fields in which He could not possibly have had any earthly knowledge or expertise.
That's a fine opinion. I don't share it. Neither do the Christians, the Muslims, the Hindus, the atheists, etc....

Only the Baha'is agree with you. Doesn't that make you wonder?

Gary Matthews has written two books discussing this.
OK. Lots of people write such books. I think they are confused.

Here's Matthews' overall list of prophecies by Baha'u'llah that he then goes on to discuss in great depth:
Not interested. But as I said before, if you'd like to present a few, I'll take a look and show you why I don't see them as remarkable.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
1531884_788069977947374_924096334_n.jpg

how does the age of the earth make evolution true?
 

outhouse

Atheistically
how does the age of the earth make evolution true?


They are talking about age and how life originated to its current state.

That is something no ancient man understood, or wrote about.


What we are left with IS creation mythology. ONLY certain people cannot accept facts regarding the reality of life on this planet.


One thing is certain, we are not moving backwards on this. Creation mythology is slowly going extinct due to the vast amount of knowledge we have at hand.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
They are talking about age and how life originated to its current state.


funny, i thought they still dont know how life originated on earth. So where are all the research papers on abiogenesis....i'd like to see that
 

CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member
Well I may not accept the Bible as inerrant. I have a question to ask.

Why accept any accepted text such as what is taught in any history book as inerrant historical fact?
 

Amechania

Daimona of the Helpless
Well I may not accept the Bible as inerrant. I have a question to ask.

Why accept any accepted text such as what is taught in any history book as inerrant historical fact?

Nothing is inerrant but some things can be verified. First person sources, artifacts, etc. If the history book says so-and-so ruled at such a time, and see, here's the coin to prove it, it's more difficult to refute. The problem with much of the historicity of the Bible is that it is difficult to confirm by any source other than itself, and so would not be considered history by the least rigorous of definitions. Is there historical accuracy in the Bible? Probably some. Is alot of it invented? No doubt.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
funny, i thought they still dont know how life originated on earth. So where are all the research papers on abiogenesis....i'd like to see that

Lets look at what we do know.

Life came about from simple single cell and evolved from there, starting roughly 3.5 billion year ago.

This is as fact as gravity.


Anything else is mythology.
 

nazz

Doubting Thomas
Well I may not accept the Bible as inerrant. I have a question to ask.

Why accept any accepted text such as what is taught in any history book as inerrant historical fact?

One should definitely not do so if one cares anything about truth. But there is history with evidence behind it.
 

steeltoes

Junior member
For Jesus to be real The Bible has to be historically reliable.

For those that it really matters to, The Bible is historically reliable.
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I've asked this in other forums and never got a satisfactory answer. And please don't just quote II Timothy 3:16. That's problematic for several reasons but it's circular reasoning anyway. Or if you do you use it I would ask why you believe that to be true.

I believe the historicity of the Bible, despite constant attacks, has proven to be reliable and true. Skeptics question virtually everything written in the Scriptures, from the account in Genesis to the historicity of Jesus Christ. Time and again, archeological discoveries have confounded the critics and vindicated the Bible as historically correct. To cite one example of many, prominent scholars once claimed that Assyrian King Sargon II, whose name appears in the Bible at Isaiah 20:1, never existed. In 1843 on a tributary of the Tigris River, Sargon’s palace was found. Sargon II is now one of the best-known kings of Assyria.
Add to this the internal consistency and harmony of a book 1,500 years in the making, the obvious candor of it's writers, and the Bible's remarkable and successful fight to survive, not to mention it's countless prophecies, in effect history written before it happens, and I am convinced the Bible is what it says it is, the word of God.
 
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