A question about Jesus and his miracles

[sojourner]

God can use whatever means he chooses to save mankind.

He sent Moses to save Israel from the egyptions.

He sent a flood to save Noah and his family from a wicked world.

And he sent Jesus to save mankind from sin and death.


Makes perfect sense.

Read it again. It's God who saves the Israelites from Egypt. God saved Noah from the flood. According Paul, Jesus saves us from death. No other prophet is "savior."

 

[Awoon]

Jesus doesnt say that about himself.

He says;

John 7;15*Therefore the Jews fell to wondering, saying: “How does this man have a knowledge of letters, when he has not studied at the schools?” 16*Jesus, in turn, answered them and said: “What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me.

And with regard to fasting, Jesus did not promote the practice to his disciples, and they were following his example....so he obviously wasnt regularly fasting either:
Mark 2:18 Now John’s disciples and the Pharisees practiced fasting. So they came and said to him: “Why is it the disciples of John and the disciples of the Pharisees practice fasting, but your disciples do not practice fasting?”

Luke 5:33 They said to him: “The disciples of John fast frequently and offer supplications, and so do those of the Pharisees, but yours eat and drink.”



Fasting did not give Jesus and his disicples special powers. It was Holy spirit from God which did that....notice what the scripture says:

Luke 4:16*And he came to Naz′a·reth, where he had been reared; and, according to his custom on the sabbath day, he entered into the synagogue, and he stood up to read. 17*So the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed him, and he opened the scroll and found the place where it was written: 18*“Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor, he sent me forth to preach a release to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away with a release, 19*to preach Jehovah’s acceptable year.” 20*With that he rolled up the scroll, handed it back to the attendant and sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were intently fixed upon him. 21*Then he started to say to them: “Today this scripture that YOU just heard is fulfilled.”

It was holy spirit that enabled Jesus, and the apostles, to perform miracles. Fasting had nothing to do with it.

How many holy spirits are there? Jesus and disciples had one before he died then got another one on Pentecost?

 

[steeltoes]

"Scholars rarely if ever debate the basic facts of Jesus' death. The basic datum that Jesus died by crucifixion in Jerusalem during the rule of Pontius Pilate is generally accepted by all. but the details of his death are subject to a wide range of interpretations. These differing interpretations begin in the gospels themselves. But these interpretations do not get at the heart of the historical questions. Today scholars agree that the death of Jesus clearly took place as an act of Roman oppression. Indeed, crucifixion was an especially cruel form of capital punishment used by the Romans for the most heinous of criminals. It was the preferred form of punishment for political prisoners, and the very act of leaving the individual hanging there in full view of all to die a slow, painful and ignomonius death was seen as a warning message to the populace not to engage in any suspicious acts against Rome. Clearly Jesus was crucified as a political rabble-rouser, with the sign on the cross...identifying him...as a pretender to the throne." (Dennis Smith, Chalice Introduction to the New Testament, St. Louis, Chalice Press, 2004, Dennis Smith; pp. 133, 134)
Both Brandon Scott and John Dominic Crossan also agree that Jesus was crucified, although I can't put my hands on exact quotations right now.

Matthew 27:1 When morning came, all the chief priests and the elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death.


Pontius Pilate was not aware of Jesus' guilt, the crowd called for his death, so he handed him over and washed his hands of the matter.

So much for Roman oppression.


However, I am not commenting on history, I am merely commenting on what the story says.

 

[Pegg]

How many holy spirits are there? Jesus and disciples had one before he died then got another one on Pentecost?

holy spirit is not a person... its a power.

God gives his power to whomever he chooses to give it.

We can't buy it, we can't trade it, we can't summons it. If God gives it to someone, it might only be for a short time until the purpose of it is complete, but the receiver only got it because God gave it.



'

 

[Awoon]

holy spirit is not a person... its a power.

God gives his power to whomever he chooses to give it.

We can't buy it, we can't trade it, we can't summons it. If God gives it to someone, it might only be for a short time until the purpose of it is complete, but the receiver only got it because God gave it.



'

Doesn't answer my question.

 

[Pegg]

Doesn't answer my question.

your question was, 'how many holy spirits are there'


there is only one... its from God. He is the source of holy spirit because its his power.

 

[Me Myself]

Jesus doesnt say that about himself.

He says;

John 7;15*Therefore the Jews fell to wondering, saying: “How does this man have a knowledge of letters, when he has not studied at the schools?” 16*Jesus, in turn, answered them and said: “What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me.

And with regard to fasting, Jesus did not promote the practice to his disciples, and they were following his example....so he obviously wasnt regularly fasting either:
Mark 2:18 Now John’s disciples and the Pharisees practiced fasting. So they came and said to him: “Why is it the disciples of John and the disciples of the Pharisees practice fasting, but your disciples do not practice fasting?”

Luke 5:33 They said to him: “The disciples of John fast frequently and offer supplications, and so do those of the Pharisees, but yours eat and drink.”



Fasting did not give Jesus and his disicples special powers. It was Holy spirit from God which did that....notice what the scripture says:

Luke 4:16*And he came to Naz′a·reth, where he had been reared; and, according to his custom on the sabbath day, he entered into the synagogue, and he stood up to read. 17*So the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed him, and he opened the scroll and found the place where it was written: 18*“Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor, he sent me forth to preach a release to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away with a release, 19*to preach Jehovah’s acceptable year.” 20*With that he rolled up the scroll, handed it back to the attendant and sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were intently fixed upon him. 21*Then he started to say to them: “Today this scripture that YOU just heard is fulfilled.”

It was holy spirit that enabled Jesus, and the apostles, to perform miracles. Fasting had nothing to do with it.

Fasting is just one way to connect to the holy spirit. There are many.

By uniting oneself with holy spirit, or light, or understanding, or e will of god, you can do miracles.

 

[Awoon]

your question was, 'how many holy spirits are there'


there is only one... its from God. He is the source of holy spirit because its his power.

Why did his disciples need another holy spirit on Pentecost if the had one before to perform miracles?

 

[Pegg]

Why did his disciples need another holy spirit on Pentecost if the had one before to perform miracles?

holy spirit is power from God.... .it is not everlasting.

A person who recieves holy spirit does not always have holy spirit.

God gives his spirit for set tasksr when he wants someone to accomplish something. It doesnt mean that person always has holy spirit. Perhaps that person will do something wrong in the future and God will not keep giving him holy spirit.

 

[Awoon]

holy spirit is power from God.... .it is not everlasting.

A person who recieves holy spirit does not always have holy spirit.

God gives his spirit for set tasksr when he wants someone to accomplish something. It doesnt mean that person always has holy spirit. Perhaps that person will do something wrong in the future and God will not keep giving him holy spirit.

Never heard that before. So the promise has conditions or you just making it up?

 

[Pegg]

Fasting is just one way to connect to the holy spirit. There are many.

By uniting oneself with holy spirit, or light, or understanding, or e will of god, you can do miracles.

how exactly does fasting connect a person with holy spirit?

 

[Me Myself]

how exactly does fasting connect a person with holy spirit?

Some things trascend words.

When a person is more able to get in touch with its divine self, such person understands holiness in all in a deeper way. If s/he is ready, s/he may manifest miracles from such union.

Jesus was clearly a very high master, so he was ready for such.

 

[Pegg]

Never heard that before. So the promise has conditions or you just making it up?

of course there are conditions to receiving holy spirit. God will give it to some, but he certainly doesnt give it to all.

The spirit is a 'gift' to the righteous ones.

1Cor 2:14*But a physical man does not receive the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know [them], because they are examined spiritually.

 

[Pegg]

Some things trascend words.

When a person is more able to get in touch with its divine self, such person understands holiness in all in a deeper way. If s/he is ready, s/he may manifest miracles from such union.

Jesus was clearly a very high master, so he was ready for such.

yes, but i dont think that comes from fasting.

 

[Me Myself]

yes, but i dont think that comes from fasting.

Sometimes it does sometimes it doesnt.

Again, different things help different people to realize and get in touch with their own divine nature and potential.

 

[psychoslice]

Some things trascend words.

When a person is more able to get in touch with its divine self, such person understands holiness in all in a deeper way. If s/he is ready, s/he may manifest miracles from such union.

Jesus was clearly a very high master, so he was ready for such.

This is interesting, do you mean fasting of the mind, and not actually fasting with food or whatever ?.

 

[Me Myself]

This is interesting, do you mean fasting of the mind, and not actually fasting with food or whatever ?.

I actually meant fasting of food, but your interpretation sounds a lot cooler

I would say meditation is fasting of the mind and IMHO it goes way longer way than fasting of food.

 

[psychoslice]

I actually meant fasting of food, but your interpretation sounds a lot cooler

I would say meditation is fasting of the mind and IMHO it goes way longer way than fasting of food.

Yes beautiful, that is how I see it also.

 

[lorileescarlettseven]

Maybe the Satan himself had given Jesus this power in exchange to create a new accomplice to God after a breakdown in his plan of making people believe in idols,but now wanted to make a rival to god.
I am sure that the Satan knew a lot about the the world's secrets,magics and black arts and gave jesus a power (or a word) to revive the corpse and all.

 

[sojourner]

Matthew 27:1 When morning came, all the chief priests and the elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death.


Pontius Pilate was not aware of Jesus' guilt, the crowd called for his death, so he handed him over and washed his hands of the matter.

So much for Roman oppression.


However, I am not commenting on history, I am merely commenting on what the story says.

Bingo! You can't go strictly by "what the story says" if you're commenting on history. We're commenting on history.