How did Jesus break the Sabbath by healing?

[roger1440]

Where is it written one can not heal on the Sabbath? I can’t find it anyway in Jewish scripture.

 

[CMike]

To save a life you can violate the sabbath.

 

[Pegg]

it was an oral law... hence its not written in the Hebrew scriptures.

Its called the Talmud. Its divided into two main sections: The Mishnah and theGemara. One sabbath law states this:
“If a building fell down upon a man and there is doubt whether he is there or not, or whether he is alive or dead, or whether he is a gentile or an Israelite, they may clear away the ruin from above him. If they find him alive they may clear it away still more from above him; but if [he is] dead, they leave him.”—Tractate Yoma 8:7, The Mishnah, translated by Herbert Danby.

 

[roger1440]

it was an oral law... hence its not written in the Hebrew scriptures.

Its called the Mishnah. One sabbath law states this:
“If a building fell down upon a man and there is doubt whether he is there or not, or whether he is alive or dead, or whether he is a gentile or an Israelite, they may clear away the ruin from above him. If they find him alive they may clear it away still more from above him; but if [he is] dead, they leave him.”—Tractate Yoma 8:7, The Mishnah, translated by Herbert Danby.

The Mishnah wasn't written yet.

 

[Pegg]

The Mishnah wasn't written yet.

the mishnah was written after the 70ce destruction...prior to this it was taught 'orally' which is why its called the Oral law.

 

[roger1440]

it was an oral law... hence its not written in the Hebrew scriptures.

Its called the Talmud. Its divided into two main sections: The Mishnah and theGemara. One sabbath law states this:
“If a building fell down upon a man and there is doubt whether he is there or not, or whether he is alive or dead, or whether he is a gentile or an Israelite, they may clear away the ruin from above him. If they find him alive they may clear it away still more from above him; but if [he is] dead, they leave him.”—Tractate Yoma 8:7, The Mishnah, translated by Herbert Danby.

I don’t see what you quoted is relevant. A dead guy with a building on top of him is beyond help anyway. His problems are over.

 

[psychoslice]

When I was a Seventh Day Adventist who kept the Sabbath, you were allow to work if your a doctor, nurse, ambulance driver, or fireman, or basically any job that was important for when life was involved. It wasn't violating the Sabbath it was something that just needed to be done. I think the story of Jesus is to show that we shouldn't make an idol of the Sabbath, if we do we then have it all wrong, the Sabbath is when we are One in God. If you are not One in God then you are trying to get through your life by the sweat of the brow, when we enter the Sabbath we are at peace, what we do on the outside is much easier than before, we are no longer groping in the darkness.

 

[Pegg]

I don’t see what you quoted is relevant. A dead guy with a building on top of him is beyond help anyway. His problems are over.

its just one example of the sorts of laws you find in the Mishnah.

These were originally taught orally, and its these laws that Jesus was accused of breaking.

 

[Pegg]

When I was a Seventh Day Adventist who kept the Sabbath, you were allow to work if your a doctor, nurse, ambulance driver, or fireman, or basically any job that was important for when life was involved. It wasn't violating the Sabbath it was something that just needed to be done. I think the story of Jesus is to show that we shouldn't make an idol of the Sabbath, if we do we then have it all wrong, the Sabbath is when we are One in God. If you are not One in God then you are trying to get through your life by the sweat of the brow, when we enter the Sabbath we are at peace, what we do on the outside is much easier than before, we are no longer groping in the darkness.

thats very insightful. It reminds me of the words of Jesus at Mark 2:23*Now it happened that he was proceeding through the grainfields on the sabbath, and his disciples started to make their way plucking the heads of grain. 24*So the Pharisees went saying to him: “Look here! Why are they doing on the sabbath what is not lawful?” ...27*So he went on to say to them: “The sabbath came into existence for the sake of man, and not man for the sake of the sabbath; 28*hence the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath.”

 

[psychoslice]

thats very insightful. It reminds me of the words of Jesus at Mark 2:23*Now it happened that he was proceeding through the grainfields on the sabbath, and his disciples started to make their way plucking the heads of grain. 24*So the Pharisees went saying to him: “Look here! Why are they doing on the sabbath what is not lawful?” ...27*So he went on to say to them: “The sabbath came into existence for the sake of man, and not man for the sake of the sabbath; 28*hence the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath.”

Yes I thought of that verse but couldn't remember it, thanks.

 

[roger1440]

If you listen 23 minutes into this video you will see where I'm going with this. There was no law at that time. This guy is good but he rambles on alot.

[youtube]ucaoM-Wmj0c[/youtube]
The Jewish Jesus and the Sabbath - YouTube

 

[Pegg]

If you listen 23 minutes into this video you will see where I'm going with this. There was no law at that time. This guy is good but he rambles on alot.

[youtube]ucaoM-Wmj0c[/youtube]
The Jewish Jesus and the Sabbath - YouTube

The writings of Josephus go into detail the difference between the two rival sects of the Saducees and Pharisees of the first century. He explains how the Pharisees sought to impose many traditional observances on the people (aka Oral laws), whereas the Sadducees considered only what was found in the Law of Moses to be obligatory.

To say there was no law in Jesus time is fairly inaccurate if that is what he's saying.... i havent watched the video yet.

 

[CMike]

The christian bible has numerous inaccuracies about jews.

There is a hatred in the christian bible against jews.

According ot jewish law you can violate the sabbath to save a life.

In the chabad (very orthodox) synagogue I got to, there are numerous doctors. They have their cell phones on, and occassionally respond to calls.

This is similar to the nonsense of how Pontius Pilate killed jesus because of the jews, when he was a bloodthirsty ruler over the jews.

The christian bible was written for people who really know extremely little about judaism. Unfortunately, they buy into the inaccuracies.

 

[CMike]

If you listen 23 minutes into this video you will see where I'm going with this. There was no law at that time. This guy is good but he rambles on alot.

Yeah...there was jewish law that time.

The law was given to Moses on Mt Sinai.

 

[CMike]

Here is a little more about it.

Saving Lives on Shabbat - Shabbat

When treating on Shabbat a patient who is critically ill, or when dealing with an individual whose life is in danger – known in Hebrew as pikuach nefesh – one is commanded to "violate" the Shabbat. This applies even if there's a doubt whether it is – or could evolve into – a life threatening situation.


Even if retroactively it becomes clear that the act was unnecessary, or didn't accomplish its goal, it is not considered a desecration of the Shabbat, and the individual who acted receives reward for attempting to save a life
.
In all these matters, if one is in doubt about the correct mode of behavior, it is better to err on the side of violating the Shabbat, rather than potentially putting a life in danger.

When a sage attends to pikuach nefesh it serves as a lesson as to the immense privilege it is to save a lifeOne who is faced with a situation that might be construed as a matter of pikuach nefesh, and goes to consults with a rabbi about the situation is considered a murderer1—because due to his excessive "piety," and the resultant delay in implementing the proper measures, he might be endangering a life. And the rabbi who is asked is disgraceful—because he should have taught his community the proper manner of action when dealing with pikuach nefesh, i.e., to take action without delay.2

When it is necessary for the sake of pikuach nefesh to disregard the Shabbat laws, it does not matter who violates the Shabbat; the one who's able to perform the task most quickly should do so, and whoever does so is praiseworthy.

If there are several people who can attend to the endangered individual, it is preferable that the Shabbat "desecration" be done by the greatest Torah-scholar and the most pious person present. When a sage attends to pikuach nefesh it serves as a lesson as to the immense privilege it is to save a life.3

Needless to say, one may not seek to be "ultra-religious" by asking a gentile to desecrate the Shabbat for the sake of pikuach nefesh.4

Some more details:

• Any procedure which is necessary to perform for the patient, but it is clear that it does not at all need to be performed on Shabbat, should be delayed until after Shabbat.5
• If a person is ill before Shabbat and he will need care on Shabbat that will include acts forbidden on Shabbat, one should prepare whatever possible before Shabbat to minimize or eliminate the need to desecrate the Shabbat.6
• In order to desecrate the Shabbat, one must be convinced that there is at least a certain measure of doubt that the case involves pikuach nefesh.7 In situations where during the week people do not react with a sense of immediate urgency, one may not desecrate Shabbat.8
• One may only disregard the Shabbat laws when there is an existing situation that might involve pikuach nefesh; e.g., an elderly patient fell and needs to be rushed to the hospital.
• The laws of Shabbat may also be violated in anticipation of a potential life-threatening situation, provided that it is highly reasonable to assume that indeed it is an immediate concern.9 Example: If the machines in an intensive care unit are not functioning, they must be fixed on Shabbat even if at the moment there is no knowledge of a patient requiring life-support.
• That said, far-fetched hypotheses such as "I need to travel on Shabbat to university to pursue my medical studies, since one day I'll save lives with my medical expertise," or, "I need to go shopping for a sweater on Shabbat because it's supposed to be cold and I might catch pneumonia and die..." do not qualify as pikuach nefesh. 10
• Elective operations, or other elective procedures warranting a stay in a hospital, should not be scheduled for the second half of the week (i.e., Tuesday night and on).11
• Community-wide risks and concerns are determined using broader parameters of pikuach nefesh. Consequently, Jewish ambulance volunteers might be permitted to carry their radios on Shabbat. Likewise, security patrols in Israel might not required to wait until they hear about a terrorist attack in order to operate metal detectors in public places (an expert rabbi should be consulted in cases such as these).

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

This Jewish PATHWAYS article is relevant.

 

[4consideration]

Where is it written one can not heal on the Sabbath? I can’t find it anyway in Jewish scripture.

I'm responding more to the thread title than to the OP.

It has not been my understanding (what I was taught) that Jesus broke the Sabbath. It is my understanding that he was accused of breaking the Sabbath, and that this story was a lesson about the purpose of the law being serving the well-being of the people -- and that the law does not require, nor should it be interpreted as so, that the letter of the law should ever be held above what is right and good to do in a particular real life situation.

To me it is not a story that disregards the law, but one that indicates if one is fully knowledgeable about the purpose of the law, one can understand the correct application of it -- and the greater good may be better served at times by not applying the letter of the law to a particular situation.

 

[CMike]

I'm responding more to the thread title than to the OP.

It has not been my understanding (what I was taught) that Jesus broke the Sabbath. It is my understanding that he was accused of breaking the Sabbath, and that this story was a lesson about the purpose of the law being serving the well-being of the people -- and that the law does not require, nor should it be interpreted as so, that the letter of the law should ever be held above what is right and good to do in a particular real life situation.

To me it is not a story that disregards the law, but one that indicates if one is fully knowledgeable about the purpose of the law, one can understand the correct application of it -- and the greater good may be better served at times by not applying the letter of the law to a particular situation.

The story is made up.

Judaism has no such restriction.

 

[4consideration]

The story is made up.

Judaism has no such restriction.

You have 100% certainty that Jesus was not accused of breaking the Sabbath?

 

[Brickjectivity]

In my review of the video from minutes 10 to 23 the speaker exhaustively goes through all of the historical documentation searching for any Jewish laws against healing on the Sabbath, and he concludes that he can find none. Instead he finds provisions to protect the carrying of medicines on the Sabbath, so that no one can accuse the carrier of wrong doing. He goes through any lists of prohibitions he can find from Josephus to the Damascus document to the Mishna to various tractates in the Talmud.

If you want to skim, check out minutes 10, 14 and 17.