Study: Everyone hates environmentalists and feminists

[Riverwolf]

Feminism inspires hatred because it's a movement based on hatred. It's no different than asking why people are so reluctant to support racial superiority.

Uh, no it isn't. It's an equality movement, not a superiority movement. Those people who seek to impose a matriarchy are not feminists by definition.

Feminism is equitable to the equal rights movement, not racial superiority movements. The ERM didn't let black supremacists define their ideals, and I won't let female supremacists define mine.

 

[Mathematician]

One can support gender equality without being a feminist. The term feminism intrinsically relates a movement for the succession of women. In our post-modern, flaky society where young men earn less than young women and receive inferior treatment in both schools and courtrooms, fighting for the rights of men is just as important. The phrase feminism conveys a false message that women are downtrodden as a result of some mythical patriarchy.

Feminism is no more about gender equality than black liberation is about racial equality. In theory the two concepts are not antagonistic, but the practice is much different.

 

[Poeticus]

One can support gender equality without being a feminist. The term feminism intrinsically relates a movement for the succession of women. In our post-modern, flaky society where young men earn less than young women and receive inferior treatment in both schools and courtrooms, fighting for the rights of men is just as important. The phrase feminism conveys a false message that women are downtrodden as a result of some mythical patriarchy.

Feminism is no more about gender equality than black liberation is about racial equality. In theory the two concepts are not antagonistic, but the practice is much different.

Found something interesting:

Men paid more than women, "stonkingly, grievously unfair".
Women paid more than men, "shaft of sunlight in the gloom".

I don't see gender equality there in terms of seeking "equal-pay".

However:

I, personally, get turned on by women that make more money than me. But, financial competition, to me, is superficial. I prefer natural attraction, not bank-attraction.

 

[Penumbra]

People tend to hate things that make them feel uncomfortable.

I have an interesting co-worker. When I joined the company, he said I ate weird at lunch, but he couldn't put his finger on it, and that he would figure it out. He asked me if I eat weird and I just shrugged and said I don't think so. The answer was just that I didn't include any meat at lunch, and my meals were generally home-made with just a few healthy ingredients, but I didn't mention that because it's just my lunch. He brought it up a few times and I just kept shrugging it off- I didn't want to be like the vegetarian at the lunch table that people start asking questions to and then I have to defend vegetarianism which sounds like attacking their food. I just wanted to eat lunch. He would offer me a cookie or something from time to time and I would usually say no thanks.

Then he finally said he figured it out, that I don't eat meat, and I said yes that's true. So for a few months he would occasionally bug me about it, ask me questions, etc. I would try to answer them shortly, like saying I just don't want to eat factory farm animals. There are times when it's worth debating or explaining things, but a lunch table at work just isn't the right place, usually. So I just tried to shortly answer his questions and get him off my food. Then one day he surprised me and just came out and said, "I don't like the fact that you eat like that. It makes me feel bad about my food every day and I get angry at you because it feels like it's judgmental. Plus you always turn it down when I offer you something." So I just said, "Well I don't know what to tell you."

We're friends now to a certain extent because we've worked together for years but he has a temper about all sorts of things. I found it odd how straightforward he was about his feelings, that he was angry at me just for eating lunch because simply by doing what I was doing in front of him, it felt to him like I was making a judgment about his meal.

So I imagine if he read an article about the realities of factory farms or something which is explicitly making a judgment, he'd probably be very angry with it.

 

[Riverwolf]

One can support gender equality without being a feminist. The term feminism intrinsically relates a movement for the succession of women.

Not by the feminists I've followed.

In our post-modern, flaky society where young men earn less than young women and receive inferior treatment in both schools and courtrooms,

I don't know what schools you've been to, but girls and boys were treated equally terribly by each other and themselves in mine.

fighting for the rights of men is just as important. The phrase feminism conveys a false message that women are downtrodden as a result of some mythical patriarchy.

Feminism is no more about gender equality than black liberation is about racial equality. In theory the two concepts are not antagonistic, but the practice is much different.

Then we're just arguing terminology where such an argument gets nothing done.

Far as I'm concerned, feminism IS gender equality; they're synonyms. Supporters of gender equality can be called feminists, and anyone who says that women should be put on pedestals are not feminists. But for the sake of those who reject the term "feminist/feminism", when I actually delve into the issues I focus on, I don't use those terms, knowing that they'll just distract from the real problem.

Oh, and BTW, in politics, women are fine (Iceland's PM is a woman, and a lesbian to boot). In the workplace, women are generally fine, though there's always room for improvement. But there's more to society than that. In my subculture, sexual harassment is a real problem, as bad as it was 50 or 60 years ago in normal culture and as bad as it currently is in Japan. The depiction of women is basically this: if they're not sex-symbols, or domination goals/prizes for male protagonists, they mostly don't exist. There are too few exceptions, and the most important exception (IMO: Samus Aran) was all but ruined a few years ago, reduced to a hopeless, frightened little girl in an adult woman's body, who needs the constant guidance of a male authority figure.

That's why I'm a feminist: I seek to change that.

 

[Valjean]

The most frequently mentioned traits describing “typical feminists” included “man-hating” and “unhygienic;” for “typical environmentalists,” they included “tree-hugger” and “hippie.”

WTF? Speaking as both a Hippie and a Tree Hugger -- and likely a feminist, as well (how are we defining "feminism?") -- why would these be pejorative terms?

A Hippie is one who tries to live the Christian values the interviewees probably claim to adhere to. A Tree Hugger tries to preserve God's creation and the ecosystem that supports us. What's not to like?

[youtube]u52Oz-54VYw[/youtube]
Phil Ochs -- Love me, I'm a liberal - YouTube

 

[Riverwolf]

(how are we defining "feminism?")

There's two:

1. A feminist is one who supports gender-equality
2. A feminist is one who seeks to elevate women above men.

I've made quite clear which one I use, but whether you call yourself a feminist depends on which one you use.

 

[Valjean]

1. A feminist is one who supports gender-equality
2. A feminist is one who seeks to elevate women above men.

Ah, I'd be a feminist, too, then.

 

[Aquitaine]

But for the sake of those who reject the term "feminist/feminism", when I actually delve into the issues I focus on, I don't use those terms, knowing that they'll just distract from the real problem.

Same 'ere. Personally, I would say I do believe in Equality and have Egalitarian values, yet I make a conscious effort not to label myself as a "Feminist". Primarily because I tend to prefer not associating myself with a large group/movement, but also because I don't want extremists of said group speaking and acting on my behalf.

In short, I don't want to identify as a "Feminist" only to have people thus assume I'm a "Feminazi" or something.

 

[DallasApple]

F everyone!

 

[Riverwolf]

Same 'ere. Personally, I would say I do believe in Equality and have Egalitarian values, yet I make a conscious effort not to label myself as a "Feminist". Primarily because I tend to prefer not associating myself with a large group/movement, but also because I don't want extremists of said group speaking and acting on my behalf.

In short, I don't want to identify as a "Feminist" only to have people thus assume I'm a "Feminazi" or something.

However, I would identify myself as a feminist if I was asked, because for myself, I do.

 

[Me Myself]

There's two:

1. A feminist is one who supports gender-equality
2. A feminist is one who seeks to elevate women above men.

I've made quite clear which one I use, but whether you call yourself a feminist depends on which one you use.

Actually, the originating one was simply "those who support the rugs for women" without a specified goal.

 

[Aquitaine]

However, I would identify myself as a feminist if I was asked, because for myself, I do.

Fair enough.

Besides, I can't call myself a Feminist anyways, since let's face it: I have never been to any rallys or read any literature from prominent Feminists etc. So I guess I'd consider myself sort of an "Ally" of Feminism, if that makes sense.

I just prefer to say "I hold/have/believe in Egalitarian principles". ^_^

 

[Me Myself]

People tend to hate things that make them feel uncomfortable.

I have an interesting co-worker. When I joined the company, he said I ate weird at lunch, but he couldn't put his finger on it, and that he would figure it out. He asked me if I eat weird and I just shrugged and said I don't think so. The answer was just that I didn't include any meat at lunch, and my meals were generally home-made with just a few healthy ingredients, but I didn't mention that because it's just my lunch. He brought it up a few times and I just kept shrugging it off- I didn't want to be like the vegetarian at the lunch table that people start asking questions to and then I have to defend vegetarianism which sounds like attacking their food. I just wanted to eat lunch. He would offer me a cookie or something from time to time and I would usually say no thanks.

Then he finally said he figured it out, that I don't eat meat, and I said yes that's true. So for a few months he would occasionally bug me about it, ask me questions, etc. I would try to answer them shortly, like saying I just don't want to eat factory farm animals. There are times when it's worth debating or explaining things, but a lunch table at work just isn't the right place, usually. So I just tried to shortly answer his questions and get him off my food. Then one day he surprised me and just came out and said, "I don't like the fact that you eat like that. It makes me feel bad about my food every day and I get angry at you because it feels like it's judgmental. Plus you always turn it down when I offer you something." So I just said, "Well I don't know what to tell you."

We're friends now to a certain extent because we've worked together for years but he has a temper about all sorts of things. I found it odd how straightforward he was about his feelings, that he was angry at me just for eating lunch because simply by doing what I was doing in front of him, it felt to him like I was making a judgment about his meal.

So I imagine if he read an article about the realities of factory farms or something which is explicitly making a judgment, he'd probably be very angry with it.

I ve find people tend to feel like this, but as long as I avoid talking about the subject they just, while on defensive, well... Find a way to talk about something else or smooth the conversation somehow.

If the conversation seems to be getting more involved than very superficial questions on their part I say "If you want to know I will tell you, but be mindful you are the one wanting to have the conversation and that if you make a question to me , I will answer truthfully"

Yes, people do feel judged easily with is sort of things. Sometimes I say "I ate meat most of my life and ñi dont feel I ever was an awful person, relax"

Then again, I do think eating non vegetarian is wrong in most cases. That is why I made the change.

 

[Me Myself]

Fair enough.

Besides, I can't call myself a Feminist anyways, since let's face it: I have never been to any rallys or read any literature from prominent Feminists etc. So I guess I'd consider myself sort of an "Ally" of Feminism, if that makes sense.

I just prefer to say "I hold/have/believe in Egalitarian principles". ^_^

Say as you feel comfortable. By dictionary definition you areboth a feminist and a masculist if you are an egualitarian.

Ultimately, racism is more severe than sexism in a lot of parts of the world and there is no word for "not racist against black people" or "not racist against yellow people" etc, so the fact that words exist for "not sexist against wo/men" is very silly to begin with.

 

[Riverwolf]

Actually, the originating one was simply "those who support the rugs for women" without a specified goal.

What does that even mean?

 

[Riverwolf]

Fair enough.

Besides, I can't call myself a Feminist anyways, since let's face it: I have never been to any rallys or read any literature from prominent Feminists etc. So I guess I'd consider myself sort of an "Ally" of Feminism, if that makes sense.

I just prefer to say "I hold/have/believe in Egalitarian principles". ^_^

Meh. I still call myself feminist because I agree with feminist principles.

But to each their own; it's just a label.

 

[Aquitaine]

Meh. I still call myself feminist because I agree with feminist principles.

But to each their own; it's just a label.

Aye: it's just a label. If anything, I think sometimes the movement receives a lot of criticism purely because of the "Fem" in it. Funny how people can argue over just a label like that, ey? xD

 

[Mathematician]

Not by the feminists I've followed.

I don't know what schools you've been to, but girls and boys were treated equally terribly by each other and themselves in mine.

Then we're just arguing terminology where such an argument gets nothing done.

Far as I'm concerned, feminism IS gender equality; they're synonyms. Supporters of gender equality can be called feminists, and anyone who says that women should be put on pedestals are not feminists. But for the sake of those who reject the term "feminist/feminism", when I actually delve into the issues I focus on, I don't use those terms, knowing that they'll just distract from the real problem.

Oh, and BTW, in politics, women are fine (Iceland's PM is a woman, and a lesbian to boot). In the workplace, women are generally fine, though there's always room for improvement. But there's more to society than that. In my subculture, sexual harassment is a real problem, as bad as it was 50 or 60 years ago in normal culture and as bad as it currently is in Japan. The depiction of women is basically this: if they're not sex-symbols, or domination goals/prizes for male protagonists, they mostly don't exist. There are too few exceptions, and the most important exception (IMO: Samus Aran) was all but ruined a few years ago, reduced to a hopeless, frightened little girl in an adult woman's body, who needs the constant guidance of a male authority figure.

That's why I'm a feminist: I seek to change that.

Men are sexualized just as much as women. I would even go so far as to say the idealized male form (muscles) is considerably harder to attain than the idealized female form.

We're also years away from recognizing that women commit sexual harassment on the same level as men.

 

[Me Myself]

What does that even mean?

Replace the tpo "rug" for rights and it may seem more readable?

Edit: by tpo. i meant tpo but The pertinency of the mistake prevented me from directly editing that aaway

Edit2: typo xD