My Paidagogos (Galatians 3:24)

[Latuwr]

Hi Pegg,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
You asked:
"if there was no Law given to Abraham, what was it about him that made him righteous in Gods eyes."
Simply put, OBEDIENCE! (see Romans 2:13) No where have I stated that no law was given to Abraham. Abraham was given a whole lot of insight (John 8:56) and instruction from YAHWEH ELOHIM; yet, Abraham was not given the Law Covenant as given through Moses.
I think that you said it best to Ken Brown:
"Abraham did not have the mosaic law....but the example he gave to his children was to obey God in whatever God asked. He led by example to the point of willingly offering up his son isaac in sacrifice at Gods request."
And not only that but YAHWEH ELOHIM testifies of Abraham in this manner:
Genesis 18:19
19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of YAHWEH, to do justice and judgment; that YAHWEH may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
Notice that the Children and Household of Abraham are under obligation to fulfill Abraham's instruction (charge) to them so that YAHWEH HIMSELF is not proven to be liar. If the Sabbath Commandment was given to Abraham, then the Sons of Abraham must of necessity observe that commandment so that the Word of YAHWEH would in the end prove to be true. A clear record of Sabbath observance would of necessity be visible amongst the Children right down to Moses and Sinai. No such observance is seen.
I therefore personally believe that Genesis 18:19 is written for the Seed of Abraham, that is, My Messiah Yahushua.
Prior to the giving of the Law of Moses, any son or descendant of Abraham could step forward and claim to be the Seed as long as they themselves like Abraham fully kept any Word of YAHWEH which had been personally given to them and/or to mankind prior to them. After the giving of the Law, this becomes a monumental task and obligation.
My Messiah Yahushua accepted this charge (see Matthew 5:17), and not only My Messiah but also all those who have graciously been delivered to HIM through HIS fulfillment of the Law. In other words, Pegg, all those who belong to My Messiah also now have the same obligation (charge) with respect to our Father, Abraham. All such through Messiah are of the Household of ELOHIM, and all such are also children of ELOHIM through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH (see Galatians 3:29)!
Now, Pegg, where does all this leave you? It leaves you without any hope in the world because you do not claim to be a part of Messiah Yahushua, that is, you do not claim to be a part of the Seed, and you therefore can't share in the Promises given to Abraham and to the Seed. Even so, do you yourself feel any obligation to Abraham at all? Have you yourself somehow accepted his command to his children?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

 

[Ken Brown]

Hi Pegg,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
You asked:
"if there was no Law given to Abraham, what was it about him that made him righteous in Gods eyes."
Simply put, OBEDIENCE! (see Romans 2:13) No where have I stated that no law was given to Abraham. Abraham was given a whole lot of insight (John 8:56) and instruction from YAHWEH ELOHIM; yet, Abraham was not given the Law Covenant as given through Moses.
I think that you said it best to Ken Brown:
"Abraham did not have the mosaic law....but the example he gave to his children was to obey God in whatever God asked. He led by example to the point of willingly offering up his son isaac in sacrifice at Gods request."
And not only that but YAHWEH ELOHIM testifies of Abraham in this manner:
Genesis 18:19
19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of YAHWEH, to do justice and judgment; that YAHWEH may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
Notice that the Children and Household of Abraham are under obligation to fulfill Abraham's instruction (charge) to them so that YAHWEH HIMSELF is not proven to be liar. If the Sabbath Commandment was given to Abraham, then the Sons of Abraham must of necessity observe that commandment so that the Word of YAHWEH would in the end prove to be true. A clear record of Sabbath observance would of necessity be visible amongst the Children right down to Moses and Sinai. No such observance is seen.
I therefore personally believe that Genesis 18:19 is written for the Seed of Abraham, that is, My Messiah Yahushua.
Prior to the giving of the Law of Moses, any son or descendant of Abraham could step forward and claim to be the Seed as long as they themselves like Abraham fully kept any Word of YAHWEH which had been personally given to them and/or to mankind prior to them. After the giving of the Law, this becomes a monumental task and obligation.
My Messiah Yahushua accepted this charge (see Matthew 5:17), and not only My Messiah but also all those who have graciously been delivered to HIM through HIS fulfillment of the Law. In other words, Pegg, all those who belong to My Messiah also now have the same obligation (charge) with respect to our Father, Abraham. All such through Messiah are of the Household of ELOHIM, and all such are also children of ELOHIM through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH (see Galatians 3:29)!
Now, Pegg, where does all this leave you? It leaves you without any hope in the world because you do not claim to be a part of Messiah Yahushua, that is, you do not claim to be a part of the Seed, and you therefore can't share in the Promises given to Abraham and to the Seed. Even so, do you yourself feel any obligation to Abraham at all? Have you yourself somehow accepted his command to his children?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

Hi Latuwr, what about the slave or servant that Abraham sent to lead Rebecca to Isaac and the 10 camels that accompanied the servant? KB

 

[Latuwr]

Hi Ken Brown,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
You asked:
"what about the slave or servant that Abraham sent to lead Rebecca to Isaac and the 10 camels that accompanied the servant?"
I have not considered this shadow before, but I do find it intriguing. Abraham as our Father is a picture of our Heavenly Father, and HIS Slave is the Old Covenant, that is, the Paidagogos, sent to HIS relatives, the House of Israel and the House of Judah in order to find a wife for HIS Heir and Son.
The Ten Camels are especially intriguing to me because Camels are unclean animals. Camels chew the cud, but they do not part the hoof. These Ten are used to bring wealth and gifts to the prospective wife of My Messiah Yahushua who is the Son and Heir of our Heavenly Father. The Ten also transport across desert lands the chosen wife, which is the Church, to her future husband, My Messiah Yahushua.
I am curious, what or whom in your estimation do the Ten Camels represent?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

 

[Ken Brown]

Hi Ken Brown,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
You asked:
"what about the slave or servant that Abraham sent to lead Rebecca to Isaac and the 10 camels that accompanied the servant?"
I have not considered this shadow before, but I do find it intriguing. Abraham as our Father is a picture of our Heavenly Father, and HIS Slave is the Old Covenant, that is, the Paidagogos, sent to HIS relatives, the House of Israel and the House of Judah in order to find a wife for HIS Heir and Son.
The Ten Camels are especially intriguing to me because Camels are unclean animals. Camels chew the cud, but they do not part the hoof. These Ten are used to bring wealth and gifts to the prospective wife of My Messiah Yahushua who is the Son and Heir of our Heavenly Father. The Ten also transport across desert lands the chosen wife, which is the Church, to her future husband, My Messiah Yahushua.
I am curious, what or whom in your estimation do the Ten Camels represent?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

Hi Latuwr, I believe the 10 camels represent the 10 commandments that accompany the Paidagogos. KB

 

[Latuwr]

Hi Ken Brown,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Last night I went to bed watching the St. Louis Cardinal's baseball game with the Pirates, all the while thinking or contemplating the Ten Camels. This morning I awoke wondering about them, and as you know, I was involved in a discussion with Hyssop concerning what they might represent early this morning. Off hand, Hyssop volunteered the possibility that the Ten Camels represented the lost Ten Tribes of Israel. I had also myself considered that possibility, and I know that this also, according to your admission, was a possibility in your consideration. Neither Hyssop or myself felt this morning that the Ten Camels could represent the Ten Commandments because of the uncleanness issue. Neither of us were willing to admit that the Ten Commandments were in any fashion unclean, but I have found that it is best to keep an open mind with respect to these things.
Accordingly, I am open to hearing the reasons why you believe that the Ten Camels represent the Ten Commandments should you be willing to offer your reasoning here.
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

 

[Ken Brown]

Hi Ken Brown,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Last night I went to bed watching the St. Louis Cardinal's baseball game with the Pirates, all the while thinking or contemplating the Ten Camels. This morning I awoke wondering about them, and as you know, I was involved in a discussion with Hyssop concerning what they might represent early this morning. Off hand, Hyssop volunteered the possibility that the Ten Camels represented the lost Ten Tribes of Israel. I had also myself considered that possibility, and I know that this also, according to your admission, was a possibility in your consideration. Neither Hyssop or myself felt this morning that the Ten Camels could represent the Ten Commandments because of the uncleanness issue. Neither of us were willing to admit that the Ten Commandments were in any fashion unclean, but I have found that it is best to keep an open mind with respect to these things.
Accordingly, I am open to hearing the reasons why you believe that the Ten Camels represent the Ten Commandments should you be willing to offer your reasoning here.
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

Hi Latuwr, yes, I did consider the 10 lost tribes, but that really doesn't fit. The servant or slave (Law-Paidagogos) is what leads us to Messiah, and the lost 10 tribes really has no function in delivering us to Him. But the 10 commandments do. First, it is important to realize that the word "camel" means to be under a burden or labor:

H1581
גּמל
gâmâl
gaw-mawl'
Apparently from H1580 (in the sense of labor or burden bearing): - camel.

Secondly, when you look at the Council of Acts 15's decision, James states they were not going to lay any greater "burden" upon the Gentiles than those 4 necessary commands. When you look at the commands, they can place one under a burden or heavy labor, when you only look at them according to "works." An example of that is when Paul stated that when the command came to not covet, it worked or wrought in him all manner of concupiscence (desire, lust), and what he thought was to be clean and life giving, actually brought uncleanness and death. So those who only view the Law according to "works" become unclean, and in that uncleanness we become defiled in our sin, thus sacrificing Yeshua, and this is how the Law brings or leads us to Messiah. Once one starts to view the Law as being "split," both a doing according to works, AND a Spiritual doing through and in the sacrifice of Messiah, then they become clean, but as the camel shows, the 10 commandments can render us unclean if we do not have a split hoof in our view and walk with the Law. Does this make any sense? KB

 

[Pegg]

Now, Pegg, where does all this leave you? It leaves you without any hope in the world because you do not claim to be a part of Messiah Yahushua, that is, you do not claim to be a part of the Seed, and you therefore can't share in the Promises given to Abraham and to the Seed. Even so, do you yourself feel any obligation to Abraham at all? Have you yourself somehow accepted his command to his children?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

As a chrisitan, i've accepted that there is a new covenant as instituted by Christ. And like Abraham, im willing to do whatever God requires of me.... it would seem that he requires that I show love to my fellow man and adhere to the teachings of Jesus more then adhering to the requirements of the mosaic law as Paul shows.

Eph 2:8*By this undeserved kindness, indeed, YOU have been saved through faith; and this not owing to YOU, it is God’s gift. 9*No, it is not owing to works, in order that no man should have ground for boasting. 10*For we are a product of his work and were created in union with Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared in advance for us to walk in them.
11*Therefore keep bearing in mind that formerly YOU were people of the nations as to flesh; “uncircumcision” YOU were called by that which is called “circumcision” made in the flesh with hands— 12*that YOU were at that particular time without Christ, alienated from the state of Israel and strangers to the covenants of the promise, and YOU had no hope and were without God in the world. 13*But now in union with Christ Jesus YOU who were once far off have come to be near by the blood of the Christ.


So you see Latuwr, it is 'faith' that God requires. Faith like that of Abraham and by living according to the example set by Christ, we can fulfill the law without actually striving to adhere to that law. The “law of the Christ” covers all aspects of a Christian’s life and work. We are bound to live by Christs example....and considering he fulfilled the law, if we follow him (obviously not perfectly yet), we too can fulfill the law.

 

[Shermana]

we can fulfill the law without actually striving to adhere to that law

Interesting concept of what "fulfill" means. Too bad Jesus said directly the opposite.

I would be very careful about speaking for what God wants and requires when using a book (Ephesians) that was most likely not even written by Paul, just saying.

 

[Pegg]

Interesting concept of what "fulfill" means. Too bad Jesus said directly the opposite.

I would be very careful about speaking for what God wants and requires when using a book (Ephesians) that was most likely not even written by Paul, just saying.

Jesus said that entire law hinges on love for God and love for neighbour.

Thats what the new covenant accomplishes...its a covenant of the heart
Jeremiah 31:33*“For this is the covenant that I shall conclude with the house of Israel after those days,” is the utterance of Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I shall write it.

If the law hinges on love, then love is what fulfills the law, right?

 

[Shermana]

Jesus said that entire law hinges on love for God and love for neighbour.

Thats what the new covenant accomplishes...its a covenant of the heart
Jeremiah 31:33*“For this is the covenant that I shall conclude with the house of Israel after those days,” is the utterance of Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I shall write it.

If the law hinges on love, then love is what fulfills the law, right?

I've told you before many times, we've had arguments about it where you ultimately even admitted that every single one of the laws somehow is based on as an extension the 10 commandments (And some left you a few stumped as where to place them I recall), Jesus didn't say "As long as you love, you obey the Law", he said "All the law involves love." He was saying that every Law is somehow about love of God or love of Neighbor. Nothing more nothing less. To say anything else is a total blasphemy of what Jesus said. He did not whatsoever say it was no longer necessary to obey the Law as long as you "Love".

What is love of God? Why it's obedience to the commandments! (1 John 5:3) Apparently John didn't get the memo! Or the female disciples when they obeyed the Sabbath after Jesus died. You'd think Jesus would have told them before he died that they didn't have to obey the Sabbath.



This widespread abuse of how Jesus says all the Law "hangs" upon Love of God and Neighbor not only is completely open ended and turns Jesus into a dirty hypocritical liar who contradicts himself, it would make him ripe for stoning. Jesus said that not one iota of the Law will ever be void. He said anyone who breaks or teaches to break the Least of the commandments shall be called the least in the Kingdom, and not in a good "humble" way. You shall be called the least in the kingdom according to Jesus himself, and you as a doer of Lawlessness shall be cast away, as Jesus said all doers of Lawlessness shall be.

Matthew 5:17-18, "Think not that I came to abolish the law, or the prophets: I came not to abolish, but to fulfil. For verily I say to you, Until heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle in no wise shall pass away from the law, until all be fulfilled."

Now I understand you think "All be fulfilled" merely means up until his death on the cross a few days later, but I think it's pretty clear he meant til the end of time and all events, until Heaven and Earth collapse.

1 John 3:4 "Sin is the transgression of the law/lawlessness". It doesn't get much more clear.

Otherwise, you can try to define "love" all you want, but Jesus is clear that "love" is defined by the commandments.

And so does John.

What does covenant of the heart mean anyway?

What Christians received this "Covenant of the Heart" exactly historically? Was it the ones who wrote the Didache?

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/new.html

 

[Latuwr]

Hi Ken Brown,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
There are some things that I like and approve, and there are some things that I dislike and disapprove in your explanation. I absolutely do not like any idea that the Law is unclean according to any of its applications. Of course, exceptions always exist. Consider this scripture:
Ezekiel 20:25
25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;
You know full well that in the past I have questioned why our Messiah Yahushua was forsaken by His EL (see Matthew 27:46). I speculated that in the fulfillment of the Law something went amiss. Is so, then, is the Law at fault? I finally concluded: Not at all. The Law is holy, and righteous, and pure in every respect. So, the fault does not lie in the Law; the fault lies elsewhere, at least, that is my thinking today.
The fault lies in us. We are burdened not by the Law, but we are burdened by our inability to fulfill the Law. Whenever we sin, we are weighed down under an impossible burden which we must overcome should we desire to possess life. Accordingly, the yoke is not the Law itself; rather, the yoke is our commitment to fulfill the law which we unfortunately by ourselves are unable to accomplish according to the flesh.
This is the teaching of the Apostle Paul in Romans 7. Paul openly admits that he himself is a spiritual Camel. I do not mean by that statement that Paul openly says to all of us: I am a Camel; rather, Paul places his Camelic predicament in these terms:
Romans 7:25
25 I thank ELOHIM through Yahushua Messiah, our YAHWEH. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of ELOHIM; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Paul openly admits that according to the chewing the chud, he in in agreement with the Law of ELOHM, and he himself does serve that Law in his mind, but Paul like all of us does have a problem, we have disobedience in our walk. We do not split the hoof. We walk according to the flesh. Do you see the problem for the Camel? The problem of the Camel is in our walk. We cannot walk according to the Law unless our hoof splits. Paul teaches how this is accomplished in Romans 8.
Ken Brown, if Paul himself is a Camel, if we ourselves are Camels, which of the Ten Commandments are we?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr
P.S. Do you remember as kids when we played ping pong together? I initially always slaughtered you, but as you grew older, all of a sudden, you begin to triumph over me. I look forward and rejoice with your triumph in the spiritual.

 

[Ken Brown]

Hi Ken Brown,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
There are some things that I like and approve, and there are some things that I dislike and disapprove in your explanation. I absolutely do not like any idea that the Law is unclean according to any of its applications. Of course, exceptions always exist. Consider this scripture:
Ezekiel 20:25
25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;
You know full well that in the past I have questioned why our Messiah Yahushua was forsaken by His EL (see Matthew 27:46). I speculated that in the fulfillment of the Law something went amiss. Is so, then, is the Law at fault? I finally concluded: Not at all. The Law is holy, and righteous, and pure in every respect. So, the fault does not lie in the Law; the fault lies elsewhere, at least, that is my thinking today.
The fault lies in us. We are burdened not by the Law, but we are burdened by our inability to fulfill the Law. Whenever we sin, we are weighed down under an impossible burden which we must overcome should we desire to possess life. Accordingly, the yoke is not the Law itself; rather, the yoke is our commitment to fulfill the law which we unfortunately by ourselves are unable to accomplish according to the flesh.
This is the teaching of the Apostle Paul in Romans 7. Paul openly admits that he himself is a spiritual Camel. I do not mean by that statement that Paul openly says to all of us: I am a Camel; rather, Paul places his Camelic predicament in these terms:
Romans 7:25
25 I thank ELOHIM through Yahushua Messiah, our YAHWEH. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of ELOHIM; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Paul openly admits that according to the chewing the chud, he in in agreement with the Law of ELOHM, and he himself does serve that Law in his mind, but Paul like all of us does have a problem, we have disobedience in our walk. We do not split the hoof. We walk according to the flesh. Do you see the problem for the Camel? The problem of the Camel is in our walk. We cannot walk according to the Law unless our hoof splits. Paul teaches how this is accomplished in Romans 8.
Ken Brown, if Paul himself is a Camel, if we ourselves are Camels, which of the Ten Commandments are we?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr
P.S. Do you remember as kids when we played ping pong together? I initially always slaughtered you, but as you grew older, all of a sudden, you begin to triumph over me. I look forward and rejoice with your triumph in the spiritual.

Hi Latuwr, before I continue in providing evidence for my POV, could you explain who the other 9 Camels were who accompanied the Paidagogos. Thank you, KB.

 

[Latuwr]

Hi Pegg,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Thank you again for your reply!
You have quoted Ephesians 2:8-13 from the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. Your translation makes mention of union with My Messiah Yahushua in two verses: 10 & 13. I would like to see if you can explain to me exactly how JW'S are unified with My Messiah Yahushua? How does that unity come about? How were you yourself, Pegg, united with My Messiah Yahushua? I also would like to know which hope you do have? Do you have the earthly or heavenly hope?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

 

[Latuwr]

Hi Ken Brown,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Sure! First of all, no where did I state that the Apostle Paul was one of the Ten Camels; rather, I did imply that Paul himself possessed a camel like existence having been yoked to the Law.
I believe that the Ten Camels are the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. I have this belief because the Ten Lost Tribes were yoked to the Law, that is, they were given over to the Law, and, therefore, it happened to them as the Law predicted of them. They were all driven into all the nations because of all their disobedience.
Here is the marvelous thing about that. These Lost Tribes contain all the goods of Abraham. Consider these blessings of Joseph whom I do claim to be my great, great, ------- Grandpa:
Genesis 49:22-26
22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:
23 The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:
24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty EL of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel
25 Even by the EL of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:
26 The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.
Deuteronomy 33:13-17
17 And of Joseph he said, Blessed of YAHWEH be his land, for the precious things of heaven, for the dew, and for the deep that coucheth beneath,
14 And for the precious fruits brought forth by the sun, and for the precious things put forth by the moon,
15 And for the chief things of the ancient mountains, and for the precious things of the lasting hills,
16 And for the precious things of the earth and fulness thereof, and for the good will of him that dwelt in the bush: let the blessing come upon the head of Joseph, and upon the top of the head of him that was separated from his brethren.
I have been separated from my brethren according to the will of My Messiah Yahushau!
Deuteronomy 33:17
17 His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.
Among all the goods of Abraham, Joseph is only one tribe. Wealth beyond measure are carried by the Ten Tribes, the Ten Camels.
Who is your Father, Ken Brown? I turn it back on you: Which camel are you?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

 

[Pegg]

Hi Pegg,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Thank you again for your reply!
You have quoted Ephesians 2:8-13 from the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. Your translation makes mention of union with My Messiah Yahushua in two verses: 10 & 13. I would like to see if you can explain to me exactly how JW'S are unified with My Messiah Yahushua? How does that unity come about? How were you yourself, Pegg, united with My Messiah Yahushua? I also would like to know which hope you do have? Do you have the earthly or heavenly hope?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

Hi Latuwr,

Jehovahs Witnesses are unified with Christ in that we are all actively following Christs example in living a life devoted to the service of God.

We do this through our world-wide preaching work. As an organized body, we preach in over 232 lands, we print and freely distribute millions of bibles and billions of pieces of bible literature world wide each year. This is in obedience to Jesus command to preach the good news of the kingdom.
“Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them.” Matt. 28:19

“This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” Matt. 24:14.

We take Jesus command seriously, and each baptized witnesses is engaged in a ministry to preach the good news.

We also promote the high moral standards that Christ set. He lived by the standards of the mosaic law, so we also strive to live by those standards. We understand that our behaviour & conduct must conform to what is acceptable to Jehovah....otherwise our preaching would be in vain and unacceptable to Jehovah. That is why only those who strive to live by those standards can be baptised as one of Jehovahs Witnesses. And any Jehovahs Witnesses who fail to uphold the standards and begin practicing wrongdoing will be disfellowshiped from the congregation (until they repent and turn back to God)

We also take seriously the command to 'love your neighbour as yourself'. With that command in mind, we refuse all military participation in the respective countries we live in. We will not take up arms against our neighbour. And this means we must also be politically neutral, so we refuse to vote in political elections or get involved in political debates.

We take seriously Jesus advice to 'have love for the whole association of brothers' which is the christian congregations. We remain united in all our teachings. We dont have divisions or sects among us because Jesus said we must remain united and become as 'one'.... just as he is united in oneness with God.


I myself am of the earthly hope. I am not an anointed. The anointed (144,000) will be joining Christ in heaven to rule as Kings and Priests over the earthly society.

 

[Latuwr]

Hi Pegg,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Shabbat Shalom!
Whooa? I am a camel, Pegg. I am yoked to the Law. How do you in any way claim to water me?
Are you familiar with your own history? In your history, did there exist any disagreement concerning the atoning sacrifice of My Messiah Yahushua? Have JW'S always said the same thing concerning the substitutional nature of HIS atoning blood?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

 

[Pegg]

Hi Pegg,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Shabbat Shalom!
Whooa? I am a camel, Pegg. I am yoked to the Law. How do you in any way claim to water me?

I dont claim to water you. Only God can do that.

Are you familiar with your own history? In your history, did there exist any disagreement concerning the atoning sacrifice of My Messiah Yahushua? Have JW'S always said the same thing concerning the substitutional nature of HIS atoning blood?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

Jehovahs witnesses have been teaching the idea of the Ransom since the late 1800's. It has remained a core belief based on the scriptures and without it, there could be no salvation of anyone.

 

[Ken Brown]

Hi Ken Brown,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Sure! First of all, no where did I state that the Apostle Paul was one of the Ten Camels; rather, I did imply that Paul himself possessed a camel like existence having been yoked to the Law.
I believe that the Ten Camels are the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. I have this belief because the Ten Lost Tribes were yoked to the Law, that is, they were given over to the Law, and, therefore, it happened to them as the Law predicted of them. They were all driven into all the nations because of all their disobedience.
Here is the marvelous thing about that. These Lost Tribes contain all the goods of Abraham. Consider these blessings of Joseph whom I do claim to be my great, great, ------- Grandpa:
Genesis 49:22-26
22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:
23 The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:
24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty EL of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel
25 Even by the EL of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:
26 The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.
Deuteronomy 33:13-17
17 And of Joseph he said, Blessed of YAHWEH be his land, for the precious things of heaven, for the dew, and for the deep that coucheth beneath,
14 And for the precious fruits brought forth by the sun, and for the precious things put forth by the moon,
15 And for the chief things of the ancient mountains, and for the precious things of the lasting hills,
16 And for the precious things of the earth and fulness thereof, and for the good will of him that dwelt in the bush: let the blessing come upon the head of Joseph, and upon the top of the head of him that was separated from his brethren.
I have been separated from my brethren according to the will of My Messiah Yahushau!
Deuteronomy 33:17
17 His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.
Among all the goods of Abraham, Joseph is only one tribe. Wealth beyond measure are carried by the Ten Tribes, the Ten Camels.
Who is your Father, Ken Brown? I turn it back on you: Which camel are you?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

Hi Latuwr, pretty convincing arguments you have, but you ask, "Who is your Father," and "Which camel are you?"

The Name of my Father is "The Word," and IF the camels are the tribes of Israel, I consider myself to be from the Tribe of Benjamin, and Benjamin was not one of the Lost 10 Tribes. So I guess, I like Paul, could not be part of the 10 Camels which accompanied the Paidagogos in delivering the Bride to the Groom.

Now, another question for you. Please explain Gen 24:11, as it pertains to this discussion:

Gen 24:11
(11) And he made the camels kneel down outside the city by the well of water at the time of evening, the time when women go out to draw water.

KB

 

[Latuwr]

Hi Ken Brown,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Shabbat Shalom!
If you yourself are of the Tribe of Benjamin, then you are not of the House of Israel; rather, you belong to the House of Judah, and as such, the Acts 15 dispensation for Gentiles does not apply to you. Accordingly, you need to make some adjustments in your current practice, do you not?
Like Paul, you must seek out the Jew first in your preaching of the true Gospel (the water of life).
The House of Israel (disguised as Gentiles amongst the Nations), we are not Jews like yourself, in that we are gradually made aware of the Law, the Paidagogos, as we travel through the desert, and this awareness forces us to bow the knee at the well of the water of life before this water is given to us by the True Church, symbolized by Rebekah.
As it is written:
Isaiah 45:22-23
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am ELOHIM, and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
I bowed the knee to My Messiah Yahushua in bowing to Rebekah, the True Church, who has given to me the Water of Life through the true Gospel which is according to the Word of ELOHIM. How about you, Ken Brown, you claim that the Word is your Father, when and to whom and how did you bow the knee to HIM?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

 

[Latuwr]

Hi Pegg,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Shabbat Shalom!
You wrote:
"Jehovahs witnesses have been teaching the idea of the Ransom since the late 1800's. It has remained a core belief based on the scriptures and without it, there could be no salvation of anyone."
Are you familiar with a man named N.H. Barbour? How about J.H. Paton? How do you know that C.T. Russell was right and they were wrong?
Paul taught this about the true Gospel:
1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Messiah died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
The true Gospel about salvation must go out to the whole world. How can anyone judge whether or not the true Gospel is being taught or preached by any particular group at any given time? JW'S believe that Messiah died in their stead to pay their penalty for their sin. Is this belief according to the Scriptures, Pegg?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr