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are public schools failing boys

Curious George

Veteran Member
More boys are disciplined more harshly in schools.

More boys drop out of high school

Boys perform lower in testing in the primary grades

So, are our schools failing the young boys, or are boys just less capable?
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
More boys are disciplined more harshly in schools.

More boys drop out of high school

Boys perform lower in testing in the primary grades

So, are our schools failing the young boys, or are boys just less capable?

The schools are absolutely failing boys. Young boys are being told two very different and incompatible messages. To succeed you must be assertive, a leader, question unfair authority, stand out, be yourself, etc. But boys suddenly face a wall of the direct opposite to be successful in American public schools. Students are trained to think and act learning by rote, repeat what was said to them, and to follow the leader.

Boys really get the short end of the stick when the education system is modeling what they want in direct opposition to the culture around them and the messages they hear day in and day out. It's maddening.
 

moodys

Member
More boys are disciplined more harshly in schools.

More boys drop out of high school

Boys perform lower in testing in the primary grades

So, are our schools failing the young boys, or are boys just less capable?
Whilst those might (or might not) be indeed true, there is little in the way of disproving the fact that more boys live up to their potential than the girls unfortunately. We are yet to embody a society where the two genders are expected to achieve the same things in life, in particular here in the US. This is evident not just from the lower rungs of society (or lower social classes) such as builders, military personnel, restaurant managers, shop owners etc. But extends through the middle classes such as the lawyers, accountants, doctors, diplomats, sports managers right to the top of society such as hedgefund managers, managing directors, CEO's and indeed the US presidency. Considering there are more females than males in the United States, I do not view this as anything less than a pressing concern.

Being a white male is not as much a privilege as it used to be because of rapid progression for ethnic minority rights, but being a male certainly is.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
It's very difficult to tell, but it is probably much more likely that society is failing boys than the schools are. In many cases a boy will drop out to take a job to help support his family, and while girls do this as well, in some areas it is still the expectation that the man go out and work while the woman takes care of the domestic chores. There is also the fact that even a higher education is becoming more and more worthless, and in many areas jobs such as auto mechanics, carpenters, plumbers, and electricians are still largely considered manly jobs, and for some they just want to drop out of school and start making money. And of course their is the family home life, crime, poverty, drugs, and so many other factors that have alot of gender bias in them.
But what is clear though, boy or girl, our schools are failing all of our children. All the public education system in it's current form is good for is producing herds of brainless drones who can stand at an assembly line all day. High school barely even prepares people to be able to count change back to a customer, which is a very basic skill that is gender neutral that either sex can hardly do upon graduating high school. And the appearance of internet/text accronyms is collegiate level papers is another very strong indication we need not worry about our boys or girls in school, we need to worry about the children.

 

Alceste

Vagabond
* struggles not to comment on the fact that it only took 4 posts for someone to produce a mockery of feminism *

As a private music teacher, I do notice that boys and girls seem to be inspired in different ways. There is as much variation between individuals as there is between genders, but if I can generalize a little, the boys have a more pent-up physical energy and it's much harder to get them to settle and focus on the task at hand. That doesn't mean they're not interested though. They're actually very keen. The approach I have is to let the student decide what they want to learn, and then I figure out a way to teach it (in some form) to them. Boys respond really well to that approach. One little guy even came in with an adorable list to his third lesson of all the songs he wanted me to teach him. Another guy did the same thing last week, using his mother's iPhone to play me all the songs that he wanted to learn, making sure I wrote them all down.

It's much harder for me to figure out what girls want to learn. A lot of them just shrug, and they'll have a go at whatever. In fact, I can't remember a single time a girl has come in and told me she wanted to learn a particular song. When I ask, most of them can come up with something, but they're just as happy to do something else. It sounds terrible, but the best tool I have for motivating girls is a big bunch of shiny stickers. They'll do practically anything I say to get one of those stickers. Lol.

So, given the differences I've just described, it's easy to see that the school system, geared as it is toward the passive absorption of pre-defined information not of the student's choosing, is something that girls are bound to have an easier time with. They'll absorb anything you put in front of them, while boys will only absorb that which sparks their own interest. Also, the "reward" system of grading is probably more motivating for girls because of the sticker phenomenon.

It's awful generalizing like that, but there it is. That's what I've observed.

To get a better balance there need to be greater opportunities for independent learning. Students should be able to pick a subject that fascinates them and be coached through the process of exploring it on their own, with emphasis on critical thinking and personal empowerment when it comes to self-education.

Also, since boys have more physical energy, there needs to be more opportunities for them to let that energy out. More and longer PE classes and even more physical activity in classes that aren't PE. It's just weird and wrong to demand that a little boy sit on a chair all day long and listen to someone talk.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
It's very difficult to tell, but it is probably much more likely that society is failing boys than the schools are. In many cases a boy will drop out to take a job to help support his family, and while girls do this as well, in some areas it is still the expectation that the man go out and work while the woman takes care of the domestic chores. There is also the fact that even a higher education is becoming more and more worthless, and in many areas jobs such as auto mechanics, carpenters, plumbers, and electricians are still largely considered manly jobs, and for some they just want to drop out of school and start making money. And of course their is the family home life, crime, poverty, drugs, and so many other factors that have alot of gender bias in them.
But what is clear though, boy or girl, our schools are failing all of our children. All the public education system in it's current form is good for is producing herds of brainless drones who can stand at an assembly line all day. High school barely even prepares people to be able to count change back to a customer, which is a very basic skill that is gender neutral that either sex can hardly do upon graduating high school. And the appearance of internet/text accronyms is collegiate level papers is another very strong indication we need not worry about our boys or girls in school, we need to worry about the children.


I agree the problem is complex and has multiple layers, however to ignore the vastly different numbers with regard to gender and say we just need school reform is not the best way to handle the situation. I agree we need to fix schools, one facet of that is to address the way in which schools are failing boys.
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
Also, since boys have more physical energy, there needs to be more opportunities for them to let that energy out. More and longer PE classes and even more physical activity in classes that aren't PE. It's just weird and wrong to demand that a little boy sit on a chair all day long and listen to someone talk.

I was the opposite, I have to admit :) In lessons I was very attentive and usually got the highest or second highest mark in the class. I loved sitting on my backside and listening to a lesson on the poetry of Dylan Thomas, or the rise of the Nazis, or Stanislavski in Drama, or learning to read French. I was naturally well-behaved and quiet during lessons.

And PE, ohhh....That was the subject I hated most. I detest football and all team sports. I tried everything to get away from PE at school, even to the extent of pretending I'd lost my PE kit and had a broken foot!! I did like individual sports (ie the gym) and athletics but I certainly wasn't dying to run out of the classroom and get muddy. I much preferred reading and learning.

But I agree that probably the majority of boys back in my school days were more energetic and found it difficult to concentrate in class, although there were a few like myself. For the "few" like myself, public school was a success (I came out with straight A's) however I think that many boys not of my temperament are less suited to the way classes are currently run.
 
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LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
So, how would a school look and operate that did not fail boys?

It would work with the families themselves, and be a lot more prepared and more powerful than the current ones are.

Oh, and it would be quite fierce at enforcing zero-tolerance policies for drugs. For the kids _and_ their relatives.
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
Having been in public and mostly private schooling throughout all of my life I will say private schools are by far the worst place to send a kid. Perhaps they may be because they were only Catholic and Christian schools but regardless no school fails the child.

One of my sister's is a senior teacher and all I can say from being around her is that the parents ALWAYS fail the child. Idiocy starts at the one who begot the child. Looking at the world today we can see where this stems from.
Even Luciano Pavarotti addressed this saying that in this generation the parents have become the greatest failure to their children. Schooling is the place where this is more evident
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
It would work with the families themselves, and be a lot more prepared and more powerful than the current ones are.

Oh, and it would be quite fierce at enforcing zero-tolerance policies for drugs. For the kids _and_ their relatives.

How so more prepared and powerful?
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
Anyone also care to address the hormonal differences between boys and girls.and how such biology might play into the school setting?
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
Anyone also care to address the hormonal differences between boys and girls.and how such biology might play into the school setting?

What is wrong about addressing the actual issues instead of hormones? Have you ever been in a classroom before? Have you seen what male kids or teens do?
 

Alceste

Vagabond
I was the opposite, I have to admit :) In lessons I was very attentive and usually got the highest or second highest mark in the class. I loved sitting on my backside and listening to a lesson on the poetry of Dylan Thomas, or the rise of the Nazis, or Stanislavski in Drama, or learning to read French. I was naturally well-behaved and quiet during lessons.

And PE, ohhh....That was the subject I hated most. I detest football and all team sports. I tried everything to get away from PE at school, even to the extent of pretending I'd lost my PE kit and had a broken foot!! I did like individual sports (ie the gym) and athletics but I certainly wasn't dying to run out of the classroom and get muddy. I much preferred reading and learning.

But I agree that probably the majority of boys back in my school days were more energetic and found it difficult to concentrate in class, although there were a few like myself. For the "few" like myself, public school was a success (I came out with straight A's) however I think that many boys not of my temperament are less suited to the way classes are currently run.

Well, maintaining the parts that are working for low energy, more easily led kids while expanding the parts that work for high energy, self-motivated learners would mean there's something for everyone, regardless of gender. :)
 
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