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Islamic Cosmology and Muslim ontology?

Nehustan

Well-Known Member
I am trying to become aware of ideas surrounding Islamic cosmology (from Greek kosmos 'order or world' + -logia 'discourse') and Muslim ontology (from Greek ōn, ont- 'being' + -logia 'discourse'). I am well aware that there are explicit (stated clearly and in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt) concepts in the Quran and hadith, but I am more interested in how Muslims see themselves within creation as defined from the body outward; how does man figure in relation to the wider cosmos from a personal and lived experience? Are these concepts transmitted habitually (constantly or as a habit) and implicitly (suggested though not directly expressed)

While I am aware that one could refer to the scripture, which is welcome in answering the question, I am also interested in how one feels. The reason I ask this is I am interested in how much Islamic knowledge is inherent/implicit, and if acquired is it done by the structures of society, be they physical structures or sociological.

Structures that reflect this cosmology and subsequent ontology could be architectural, ritual, socio-political, familial, somatic etc. It's really up to anyone that chooses to answer.

Interested in hearing some varied Muslim views.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Interesting! I'll come back later to comment insha'Allah as i'm preparing myself now to go to Friday Prayer.


Peace. :)
 

Nehustan

Well-Known Member
Interesting! I'll come back later to comment insha'Allah as i'm preparing myself now to go to Friday Prayer.


Peace. :)

Salaam Alaykum Tashan...hope jummah was good. It will be very interesting to learn what you think about my questions...
 

Nehustan

Well-Known Member
Ok...it seems that no one has any concepts of the universe they live within? Let me posit a question. Does the Kaaba and the rituals that revolve/resolve around it, display an inherent symbolism of how the Islamic universe is constructed?

Cube/Square/Cross, Sphere/Circle etc? Anyone?
 

Nehustan

Well-Known Member
Salam Nehustan

Honestly this subject seems quite complicate for me, i don't know what you're really asking about.
Maybe if you tell us what you think we can then understand more were you want this discussion goes ?

I think this post may interest you :) :

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...gical-model-delineation-origin-evolution.html

Wa alakum salaam wa rahmat Allah.

I'm not sure it's complicated. We all live in the world and have an understanding of how we do that. Perhaps it's so often there that we stop to consciously think about it, but personal cosmology (or how we understand our surroundings) and ontology (how we exist in that surround) is a feature for all of us either consciously or sub/unconsciously.

I'm trying to tease some of that out in this thread. Thanks for the link...I'm out and about now but will try and read...
 

Nehustan

Well-Known Member
Salaamz Pastel...oh I didn't realise it was a thread on RF. I did actually read this the other day. It seemed quite interesting but not what I was asking exactly. This seems to be how the brother sees the paradigm of modern physics reflected in the Quran, which is of course Islamic cosmology.

I was thinking of something far simpler. Do you for instance perceive a schema during prayer...do you imagine the kaaba at the centre of a circle with prayer focussing inward or radiating outward???

Have you ever made Hajj or Umrah??? Does the circumbulation of the Kaaba signify anything to you...emotionally, spiritually, intellectually??
 

Pastek

Sunni muslim
Wa alakum salaam wa rahmat Allah.

I'm not sure it's complicated. We all live in the world and have an understanding of how we do that. Perhaps it's so often there that we stop to consciously think about it, but personal cosmology (or how we understand our surroundings) and ontology (how we exist in that surround) is a feature for all of us either consciously or sub/unconsciously.

Ok. It sounded for me like a kind of philosophical thread and i'm not good at that unfortunally :eek:

I was thinking of something far simpler. Do you for instance perceive a schema during prayer...do you imagine the kaaba at the centre of a circle with prayer focussing inward or radiating outward???

No.

Have you ever made Hajj or Umrah??? Does the circumbulation of the Kaaba signify anything to you...emotionally, spiritually, intellectually??

Yes, the Hajj.
Well, it was emotional and like unreal.
Each time i looked at the Kaaba, it was like if it was the first time.
It was kind of stunning, don't know why.
In reallity it's not that big and tall, but it's very special. And it's like there's too much energy or i don't know what there.
It was a great honor to be there, and it was like too good for me.
That's how i feel it when i was there.
Also, i've had the images of the movie "the Messanger", so i was triying to figured out how it was at that time.

Other than that, i tried not to focus too much on the Kaaba but more on God when i was there.
The thing is when you circumbulate you are not alone, people speak out loud (i mean they pray), they push you, you try not to loose your friends/family, you try not to forget how many turns you made, etc ...

So it was difficult to be close to the Kaaba and be concentrated at that time.
 

Nehustan

Well-Known Member
Other than that, i tried not to focus too much on the Kaaba but more on God when i was there.

I see, and I understand that focussing on God is the object of both prayer and pilgrimage. I find that when I pray I have very specific images in my head. Actually not so much like images, more like feelings I guess.

The Kaaba as a focus point, the black stone even more so, people turned toward the kaaba in prayer, spreading out around the world, each turned toward Mecca. I like to think of all that psychic energy focussing at one point, then bouncing back to the edge of the known universe, through the Kursi and up toward the Arsh.

Silly really as God is omniscient and doesn't receive prayers by satellite transmission from the black stone, but still I find that that image somehow comforts me, and places me within a wider Islamic universe; the prayers of the sons and daughters of Adam shooting through the universe for any to hear, should Allah have given them such an ear. Perhaps I'm alone in doing this.
 

Matemkar

Active Member
Like a roaring river circling around a stone, Kaaba is surrounded by a crowd of highly excited people. It is like a sun in the center while the people are like stars traveling in their orbit of the solar system. Centrally positioned, the people move around it in a circular pattern. Kaaba symbolizes the constancy and eternity of Allah. The moving circle represents the continuous activity and transition of His creatures.

CONSTANCY + MOVEMENT + DISCIPLINE = CIRCUMAMBULATING

This is an equation of the whole world. It is an example of a system based on the idea of monotheism which encompasses the orientation of a particle (man). Allah is the center of existence; He is the focus of this ephemeral world. In contrast, you are a moving particle changing your position from what you are to what you ought to be. Yet in all positions and during all times, maintain a constant distance with "Kaaba" or with Allah! The distance depends upon the path that you have chosen in this system.

You do not touch Kaaba nor do your stop there. Everyone encircles Kaaba collectively. The movement is as one unit, one group of people. There is no individual identification, that is, as being a man or woman, nor black or white! It is the transformation of one person into the totality of a "people". All of the "I's" join and become a "We", establishing the "Umma" with the aim of approaching Allah.

Allah's way is the way of the people. In other words, to approach Allah you must first approach people. How is this done? To achieve righteousness you should genuinely become involved in the problems of people, not as a monk who isolates himself in a monastery but by becoming actively involved in the "field". This includes practicing generosity, devotion, and self-denial, suffering in captivity and exile, enduring torture pains and facing various types of danger. This is how you are with the people and where you may approach Allah. The Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) said: "Every religion has its monastic way of life. In Islam, it is jihad/struggle".

During Tawaf (circumambulating) you cannot enter the Kaaba nor stop anywhere around it. You must enter into and disappear from the crowd. You must be drawn into the roaring river of people who are circumambulating. This is how you will become a Hajj. This is the collective invitation to whoever wants to come to this house. What can be seen? Kaaba is steadfast in the center while the white, roaring river goes around it. Everyone is dressed in one color and pattern. There is no distinction nor personal promotion; true totality and universality is demonstrated.

Outside of Kaaba each person has his own ways and rights. "Totality" is only a theoretical concept. "Humanity" is only an idea, a logical and theoretical concept. Away from Kaaba people are identified by their names, nationality or race, but at Kaaba these characteristics are replaced by the concept of totality and universality which serves to identify them. Therefore, it is "people" representing "mankind" who are making Tawaf!

If you remain in the state of self-centeredness, you are not really a part of the Tawaf circle. You will be like a visitor standing at the bank of a river, but not in it. Those who are detached from themselves are alive and moving collectively. Those who are not separated from themselves are stagnant and dead. They are like wandering particles in the air of its systemic orbit. Furthermore, at Kaaba you are taught to prove yourself, to demonstrate your existence and to become eternal. You must reject self-centeredness.

By exercising generosity, kindness to others, and devotion to the community (ummah), you will attain SELF-DISCOVERY and envision the reality. When you give up your life in the way of Allah, in your warm blood you will approach Shahadat' (witnessing) and be called a Shaheed (witness/martyr). Shahadat is being present, alive, palpable and visible. A Shaheed is an everlasting witness and visitor; he exemplifies an "eternal living".

Quran III:69

Think not of those who are slain in the way of Allah as dead; Nay, they are living. With their Lord, they have provision.

Because the way of Allah is the way of people, it should be pursued collectively not individually. But what about prayers which are performed individually? They are done in order to train you to practice devotion, demonstrate maximum generosity, deny self-centeredness, and sacrifice for the sake of others.

The ultimate goal is to become the ideal man/woman. Man is the representative of Allah. His representative and trustee (Adam) will exist as long as Allah desires. A person will live eternally if he dies as a "man" because one (the individual) is perishable but "man" is eternal! A drop of water which is not part of a river or does not flow into a sea is like dew. It lasts overnight only, and will disappear with the early smile of sunshine. Oh man, join the river to flow, to meet the sea and to become eternal! Oh dew, why are you waiting near the bank of the river which reminds you of the harmony of creation? Go ahead and join the people! But before coming together you must be fully conscious of what you are doing and why. You must admit it is for Allah, not for yourself and for the facts, not for the politics! Here every act has an important meaning. This eternal movement is governed by accurate discipline. It reflects the organization of the world.

Salam. I think you might find the whole book interesting: Hajj - Dr. Ali Shariati ma salam :)
 
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Assad91

Shi'ah Ali
I am not sure this answera the op, but in regards to life and the universe, I agree with what I read Al Ghazali (ra) wroye which was roughly "when fire comes into contact with cotton, it is due to Allah that the cotton burms"
 

Nehustan

Well-Known Member
I am not sure this answera the op, but in regards to life and the universe, I agree with what I read Al Ghazali (ra) wroye which was roughly "when fire comes into contact with cotton, it is due to Allah that the cotton burms"

Sorry for the late reply Assad, but I take that to mean that while all in the universe is governed by the will of Allah, he uses means? I'm not sure it answers the OP either, but it's a nice quote; one has to admire the Proof of Islam/Hujjat al-Islam.
 

Nehustan

Well-Known Member
OK, i'm learning alot of stuff here so i'll just keep reading for now. :)

Really Tashan...no reply?? :(

I was actually thinking to put together a Survey on survey monkey to post here to see what people think of varying images...
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Really Tashan...no reply?? :(

I was actually thinking to put together a Survey on survey monkey to post here to see what people think of varying images...

I'm not a pro on this subject and all what i experience and think about sometimes, i really never thought to put it in writing because it was and still immature. I still don't have a clear image, just scattered thoughts. :(
 

Nehustan

Well-Known Member
I'm not a pro on this subject and all what i experience and think about sometimes, i really never thought to put it in writing because it was and still immature. I still don't have a clear image, just scattered thoughts. :(

Scattered thoughts are great; free association!!! :yes:
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I did the survey but i didn't get any result at the end!!! Is that how it supposed to be?
 

Nehustan

Well-Known Member
It is indeed Tashan...it is meant to be compared to other results...to see if there is any similarity between results. I'll post what it might mean when a few more people have taken the survey...but I'll look at your responses now. Thanks :clap
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Scattered thoughts are great; free association!!! :yes:

Ok, since you have encouraged me to speak up for the first time about this subject, so i'll give it a shot. It's really something which i rarly speak about except to my inner self. So, i hope you will be patient with me because i might not know how to articulate it well.

When it comes to how i feel about my surroundings, i was heavily influenced by Allah's words in the Quran in describing the universe, but when it comes to how i personally see myself within this universe i was mostly influenced by my own thoughts and feelings at the moment.

Especially after Fajir prayer, i would walk slowly trying to feel how i can fit within what is surrounding me at the moment like trees, birds, and the light of the early morning. I try to close my eyes and simply imagine myself how i can fit, and i ask myself, am i the invader of this beautiful place? am i the protector? am i the builder? what am i? am i just a foreign object?

I remember once, i was taking a shower and i was looking at my skin, my fingers, and i was wondering, how could i have all of this all together in this unique way? i understand i was created by Allah, but how come i accepted what i'm and what i'm being all these years without really thinking deep of what i'm.

I'm not sure if i'm on the right track but you can guide me to go on the path of where you want to go from here, and where you want me to elaborate and expand.
 
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