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What does 'Jesus' ie Yehoshua being called the word of God mean?

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Revelation 19:13 and John 1:1 call Yehoshua the "word". What does being called The Word mean please?

He is arrayed with a garment covered with blood, and his name is called, The Word of God.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


also at Luke 8:11, John 10:35, John 17:17, Acts 6:7, Romans 9:6, Hebrews 4:12, 1 John 2:7, 1 John 5:7

The Logos.

But the same word is also used for "saying" at Titus 3:8 and for the speech of the disciples at Colossians 4:6 and for Paul's contemptible speech at 2 Corinthians 10:10
 

steeltoes

Junior member
Philo may have influenced the writer of John, he wrote some essays about the word and logos. I will try to find them online.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.

In other words, it was a new, visible manifestation of the presence of God dwelling among men.

The result of this “tabernacling” was that men were able to behold the Glory in the form of a man–the God Man. This was a fulfillment of Isaiah 9:2, which spoke of the coming light: The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwelt in the land of the shadow of death, upon them has the light shined.


OK. Thank you. How is God, Light and Glory translated "Word"?

Why is Logos used to describe the Glory of God and Light?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Now I have read the script and I can see it has answered the question sufficiently. I do not think it was the writer's mistake to apply logos to the other circumstances. That is my question. Why? What does it mean?

I will tell you what I think it means. Belief is thought is words. It is righteous, God honoring and important to know what The Word is actually saying. True?

The world is at odds about what it is saying. Nothing good will happen when the world is at odds with The Word. Good meaning God's will be done. There is good in the world. But shhh is the purpose of God fulfilled only by knowing what is actually being said? The world is not knowing what is actually being said because the the members of the world are disagreeing with what is being said.
 

Rise

Well-Known Member
Reality is whatever God wills, and what He wills He speaks into existence, that's why God's Word is always truth. He says (a way of projecting and making known His will) something and it is so. Through His word all things are created and sustained.
Jesus is the Word made flesh. God's will in the flesh. I believe God is His will in the same way that He is love, it's not just a part of Him but it is Him. So we are seeing God made flesh with Jesus, that is why when we've seen Jesus we've seen the Father.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The son is the agent of revelation. I knew that. It is my religion (of one btw) My religion is called I believe Yehoshua.

Revelation might have been called manifestation, reality, righteousness, proof, appearance, expression, materialization, sign, demonstration ect. But no, it is WORD. Why?
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Respectfully, too many assumptions have given you a complete misunderstanding of Ezekiel, although I think you are a very logical thinker.

intojoy said:
The glory doesn't 'Leave' them but the land itself. If they were driven away while the glory remained at the temple it would be a different story, but the glory goes out, too. The people are driven out all over and so the glory leaves with them, as David and Abraham knew would happen someday and prepared for it. "I will praise thee, O LORD, among the people: and I will sing praises unto thee among the nations." (Psalm 108:3)

You see, whenever the Jews are exiled, the LORD always goes with them wherever they go. They can cross any river, march around any city, defeat any giant. If they go all over the world, then so does the LORD's presence. That is why the Iranians and Iraqis were such idiots to drive them out. We in the USA have the lion's share of Jews, so we are getting the most benefit.

The prophet makes sure to point out the people are not abandoned, merely exiled, and it will be of benefit to the entire world. One day they will return, says the prophecy though it is not clear whether it must be a physical return. Its a vision, not a map.

The four faces are 4 cardinal directions, meaning 'Everywhere'. The point is that, just as Abraham was promised, the vision is saying that all nations are going to be blessed because of him. Notice also that at the beginning of chapter 10 purifying coals are spread over the city, which make anything holy when they touch it. The people 'leave' until the purification is complete, but even leaving and returning is not necessarily literal. The city property may not matter at all except as a symbol. It may matter, but I don't know. What really matters is that there is not a 'Transferal' of glory from Jews to Christians. There is a spreading of glory, which Christians hope to share in.
 
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Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
That was not the heading for the topic, but it was the topic. It is related, because Jesus being called 'Word of God' has to do with the above.
 

Xchristian

Active Member
Initially, jesus himself unfortunately is unaware of this logos allegation, let's see:

Revelation 19:13 and John 1:1 call Yehoshua the "word". What does being called The Word mean please?

He is arrayed with a garment covered with blood, and his name is called, The Word of God.

jesus was never named the 'word' ... only others after his punishment have chosen that.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

so much debate going over this prologue which feels like a hymn that the gJohn authors chose to change in order to fit jesus.

also at Luke 8:11, John 10:35, John 17:17, Acts 6:7, Romans 9:6, Hebrews 4:12, 1 John 2:7, 1 John 5:7

let's start with this: 1j5:7 is not part of the book, but a later addition.
all the rest is a search for the word 'word' .. nothing to do with jesus.

one notable verse:

[Rom 9:6][ It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.]

this made me giggle, I am sorry.

The Logos.

But the same word is also used for "saying" at Titus 3:8 and for the speech of the disciples at Colossians 4:6 and for Paul's contemptible speech at 2 Corinthians 10:10[/quote]
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Thank you IntoJoy for that. Jewish people have a long history of being invaded, sometimes captured and removed from their country. The Bible is replete with examples. Every time that happens they become ambassadors. The first example is Joseph who teaches Pharaoh. The Pharoah gives Joseph a lot of land for his people to live in, because he appreciates Joseph and thinks him wise. Another example is the general of Aram, Naaman, whose Jewish slave girls teach him about the LORD, so he comes to visit the prophet Elijah. Another example is Naomi the adopted mother of Ruth the Moabite. Naomi's husband had to leave Israel because of famine, and the same thing happened. Naomi taught her stepdaughters, and one of them, Ruth, loved her so much that she left her own country to follow Naomi into the unknown.

Here is how an American can understand why John says the 'Word came and dwelt among us.':

The name 'Jesus' or 'Joshua' has a meaning that is explained explicitly in Numbers 13:16. Moses changes the name of his general from, Howshea` , to Yĕhowshuwa`. This first name is Hosea in our Bibles whose name in a concordance means 'Salvation' or 'Preservation'. To this Moses added 'Jah', making a new name and therefore new meaning. Matthew says Jesus name is also 'Emmanuel' a Hebrew word he says meaning 'God with us' which can be though of as 'Justice among us', since in Hebrew the word 'God' also means 'Judge' and 'Strength'. Therefore Jesus is Salvation of Yah, or Justice Has Come, heavily paraphrasing it.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The Lord is salvation. The Lord is also The Word. What word is salvation?

What am I missing?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
What I mean is if you think you have answered the question, it did not get through.

The Lord is not called Salvation. The Lord is not called Grace. The Lord is not called Way. The Lord is not called The Law. The Lord is not called Leader. The Lord is not called Creator. The Lord's name is not Father. The Lord does not call himself Owner. He is known as The Word. It is significant. How so?
 

Xchristian

Active Member
The name 'Jesus' or 'Joshua' has a meaning that is explained explicitly in Numbers 13:16. Moses changes the name of his general from, Howshea` , to Yĕhowshuwa`. This first name is Hosea in our Bibles whose name in a concordance means 'Salvation' or 'Preservation'. To this Moses added 'Jah', making a new name and therefore new meaning. Matthew says Jesus name is also 'Emmanuel' a Hebrew word he says meaning 'God with us' which can be though of as 'Justice among us', since in Hebrew the word 'God' also means 'Judge' and 'Strength'. Therefore Jesus is Salvation of Yah, or Justice Has Come, heavily paraphrasing it.

Does that refer to the criminal who was hanged or the other one Jesus bar Abba?
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Deuteronomy 30:14 says "But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it." This is the word dwelling among the Israelites, tabernacled among them. The word is tabernacled among them, and at the same time there is a physical tent or temple symbolizing it. This word which was near to the Israelite was far away from the Gentiles. We were thought far away, but now Paul says we have been brought near.(Eph 2:13) I think he is alluding to this nearness of the word to the Israelite. (Find a more appropriate verse in the Pentateuch if you can.) He says Christians are considered wild branches grafted onto the original stock as the Jews, because 'Some' of the branches were broken off -- he does not say 'All'.(Romans 11:17) and he says not to boast over those branches, because they can be put back on while we are easily removed.

So now we have God, the ultimate light too bright to be seen by man, tabernacled among men as the word, living and active, and now near to the Gentiles not just the Jews through Jesus. Carrying on the idea, John in chapter one calls Jesus not the 'Word' but the 'Light'. The word was with God and the word was God from the beginning. The light was the light of creation of Jesus ministry, repeated by Jesus in John 3:16-20. Jesus ministry is a new creation, so he is called the alpha and omega (beginning and end) of that creation. I'm digressing, but I'm trying to answer the question.

savagewind said:
The Lord is not called Salvation. The Lord is not called Grace. The Lord is not called Way. The Lord is not called The Law. The Lord is not called Leader. The Lord is not called Creator. The Lord's name is not Father. The Lord does not call himself Owner. He is known as The Word. It is significant. How so?
The Lord is a word that cannot be spoken. No one can tell you its meaning nor its true sound, just as God dwells in inapproachable light. Such a name is only appropriate for a being who cannot be described. He can be revealed in you and me in part, and hopefully the more people that are involved the more he's revealed. A cornerstone of Jesus ministry is that God is revealed directly to people and through people, so salvation requires people for the LORD to work through. The closest description is that the Word dwells among his people.
 
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savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
for you to listen to the voice of Jehovah your God, to keep His commands, and His statutes, which are written in the book of this law, for you to turn back to Jehovah your God, with all the heart, and with all the soul. For this commandment which I command you this day, it is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that you should say, "Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it to us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it?" Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, "Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?" But the message is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may accomplish it. See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction in that I am commanding you to-day to love Jehovah your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commands, and His statutes, and His judgments; and you have lived and multiplied, and Jehovah your God has blessed You in the land where ever you come in to it possess it. But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess.

John 10:27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
John 10:3 The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
John 10:4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice.
John 10:5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice."

To listen to the voice of a stranger is the same as to bow down to other gods and worship them. Why voice and not word? I think it is because the stranger has most of the same words but the words are counterfeit words, thus they can be discerned by anyone loving Yahweh with the whole heart.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Brickjectivity: why does the word have to be jesus? because you would like it to be so?
I did not say that. I believe John 1 uses Jesus as the light and God as the word. Its all symbolic anyway, kind of mish-mash when you're reading John 1.
 
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savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The stranger's words are mixed words. Some words are God's words. Some words are man's words. Because of this and because the rule is true a little leaven ferments the whole, the words being listened to will never lead to life they will lead to destruction as

warned in Deuteronomy 30:15-18.

See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. in that I command you this day to love Yahweh your God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his ordinances, that you may live and multiply, and that Yahweh your God may bless you in the land where you go in to possess it. But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but shall be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess.
 

Xchristian

Active Member
for you to listen to the voice of Jehovah your God, to keep His commands, and His statutes, which are written in the book of this law, for you to turn back to Jehovah your God, with all the heart, and with all the soul. For this commandment which I command you this day, it is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that you should say, "Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it to us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it?" Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, "Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?" But the message is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may accomplish it. See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction in that I am commanding you to-day to love Jehovah your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commands, and His statutes, and His judgments; and you have lived and multiplied, and Jehovah your God has blessed You in the land where ever you come in to it possess it. But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess.

John 10:27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
John 10:3 The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
John 10:4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice.
John 10:5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice."

To listen to the voice of a stranger is the same as to bow down to other gods and worship them. Why voice and not word? I think it is because the stranger has most of the same words but the words are counterfeit words, thus they can be discerned by anyone loving Yahweh with the whole heart.


what is his message?
repent because the hell is just around the corner? I don't really believe in it.

please give me HIS message, not the Pauline message.
 
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