Irish Woman Dies When Denied Abortion

[Storm]

Yeah, this never happens with modern medicine.

Woman 'denied a termination' dies in hospital

Her husband, Praveen Halappanavar (34), an engineer at Boston Scientific in Galway, says she asked several times over a three-day period that the pregnancy be terminated. He says that, having been told she was miscarrying, and after one day in severe pain, Ms Halappanavar asked for a medical termination.

This was refused, he says, because the foetal heartbeat was still present and they were told, “this is a Catholic country”.

She spent a further 2½ days “in agony” until the foetal heartbeat stopped.
​

Isn't the movement supposed to be "pro-LIFE?"

 

[Father Heathen]

Makes me want to slap the pope's silly hat right off his head.

 

[lunakilo]

Yeah, this never happens with modern medicine.

Woman 'denied a termination' dies in hospital

Her husband, Praveen Halappanavar (34), an engineer at Boston Scientific in Galway, says she asked several times over a three-day period that the pregnancy be terminated. He says that, having been told she was miscarrying, and after one day in severe pain, Ms Halappanavar asked for a medical termination.

This was refused, he says, because the foetal heartbeat was still present and they were told, “this is a Catholic country”.

She spent a further 2½ days “in agony” until the foetal heartbeat stopped.
​

Isn't the movement supposed to be "pro-LIFE?"

As far as I remember the law in Ireland is that you can only have an abortion is the mothers life is in danger.
I disagree with this law, but it is nevertheless the law.

The doctors apparently didn't think the mothers life was in danger.
They turned out to be wrong. That is bad decision made by the doctors.

It could have happened anywhere where there is a limit on abortion.
In many places the limit is 12 weeks unless there is a medical reason for the abortion.
The woman was over that limit so I can understand why the doctors did not just perform an abortion.
They made a mistake and the woman died.

 

[Storm]

As far as I remember the law in Ireland is that you can only have an abortion is the mothers life is in danger.
I disagree with this law, but it is nevertheless the law.

The doctors apparently didn't think the mothers life was in danger.
They turned out to be wrong. That is bad decision made by the doctors.

It could have happened anywhere where there is a limit on abortion.
In many places the limit is 12 weeks unless there is a medical reason for the abortion.
The woman was over that limit so I can understand why the doctors did not just perform an abortion.
They made a mistake and the woman died.

Did you read the entire article? There absolutely was a medical reason for the abortion, but she was told "there's nothing we can do as long as the fetal heartbeat is present," even though she was already mid-miscarriage. The baby couldn't be saved, but someone decided the mother shouldn't be, either.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

Makes me want to slap the pope's silly hat right off his head.

Wouldn't such a maneuver leave you exposed to his force lightning?

 

[lunakilo]

Did you read the entire article? There absolutely was a medical reason for the abortion, but she was told "there's nothing we can do as long as the fetal heartbeat is present," even though she was already mid-miscarriage. The baby couldn't be saved, but someone decided the mother shouldn't be, either.

Yes, we can both agree that the law is wrong here, but the law says they cannot perform an abortion.
There was still a fetal heartbeat, so there was nothing they could do within the limits of the law.
They had to wait for the fetal heartbeat to stop.

I was not there, so I don't know the details, but the sentence "The doctor, he says, said it should be over in a few hours" indicates to me that the doctors never expected what happened to happen.

My guess is that they expected the baby to die quickly, then they could remove the featus and the mother would make a full recovery.

The article also mentiones septicaemia and E.coli, so it sounds to me like she died of an infection as a result of the operation.
So honestly is sounds to me like this is just a lot of unfortunate events piling up and ending in a womans death.
It happens.

 

[Father Heathen]

Wouldn't such a maneuver leave you exposed to his force lightning?

No, because it is the hat from which he channels his power.

 

[Storm]

So honestly is sounds to me like this is just a lot of unfortunate events piling up and ending in a womans death.
It happens.

It wouldn't have happened if not for draconian anti-choice laws. Sorry, but your stance strikes me remarkably callous.

I'm well aware that the doctors acted as legally required - that's the problem.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I'm well aware that the doctors acted as legally required - that's the problem.

That is precisely correct. Having a law that mandates playing Russian Roulette with a young woman's life hardly justifies the death. On the contrary, the death stands as a damning expose of the law.

 

[Me Myself]

the law allows abortion when the mother´s life is at risk. The doctors don´t seem to have followed the law at all. Hence, the law was pro life, but the Doctors didn´t act accordingly.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

the law allows abortion when the mother´s life is at risk. The doctors don´t seem to have followed the law at all. Hence, the law was pro life, but the Doctors didn´t act accordingly.

The law was pro- deadly ambiguity subject to asinine interpretation, read: whimsy.

 

[Me Myself]

Don´t know much about law.

If it was ambiguous then sure they would need to fix that. The idea should be that the law is pro life. That is what the law is supposed to do, to protect the innocent. In this case, there was possibility to save one innocent and not the other, the law should have protected the innocent that had the chance.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

As far as I remember the law in Ireland is that you can only have an abortion is the mothers life is in danger.
I disagree with this law, but it is nevertheless the law.

The doctors apparently didn't think the mothers life was in danger.
They turned out to be wrong. That is bad decision made by the doctors.

It could have happened anywhere where there is a limit on abortion.
In many places the limit is 12 weeks unless there is a medical reason for the abortion.
The woman was over that limit so I can understand why the doctors did not just perform an abortion.
They made a mistake and the woman died.

It was a bad decision made by the doctors but it's also bad law. Even if the woman's life had not been in danger, there was no need to put her through all that pain and anguish. That is why Roe v. Wade protects choice not only to preserve the life of the mother, but also the health of the mother.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

The article also mentiones septicaemia and E.coli, so it sounds to me like she died of an infection as a result of the operation.
So honestly is sounds to me like this is just a lot of unfortunate events piling up and ending in a womans death.
It happens.

She died of sepsis, i.e. blood poisoning and it's clear from the article her symptoms set in long before the operation, probably due to her body rejecting the (essentially) dead fetus.

 

[Draka]

Yes, we can both agree that the law is wrong here, but the law says they cannot perform an abortion.
There was still a fetal heartbeat, so there was nothing they could do within the limits of the law.
They had to wait for the fetal heartbeat to stop.

I was not there, so I don't know the details, but the sentence "The doctor, he says, said it should be over in a few hours" indicates to me that the doctors never expected what happened to happen.

My guess is that they expected the baby to die quickly, then they could remove the featus and the mother would make a full recovery.

The article also mentiones septicaemia and E.coli, so it sounds to me like she died of an infection as a result of the operation.
So honestly is sounds to me like this is just a lot of unfortunate events piling up and ending in a womans death.
It happens.

Actually, what she was experiencing was an inevitable miscarriage. She was fully dilated and bleeding. The fetus just wasn't expelling on its own. In cases such as this, simply because of the fully dilated opening being open for so long, bacteria can enter through the vagina and into the uterus and cause the infections she had. They cause full system infections and shut downs and death. They were not a result of the operation, but the result of her being dilated for so long and being open to bacteria. It is exactly because of these things that terminations should be done, even if there is still a fetal heartbeat, because the pregnancy is not able to continue anyway and if left to proceed as it did with this unfortunate woman...you end up with these exact consequences.

 

[Me Myself]

Actually, what she was experiencing was an inevitable miscarriage. She was fully dilated and bleeding. The fetus just wasn't expelling on its own. In cases such as this, simply because of the fully dilated opening being open for so long, bacteria can enter through the vagina and into the uterus and cause the infections she had. They cause full system infections and shut downs and death. They were not a result of the operation, but the result of her being dilated for so long and being open to bacteria. It is exactly because of these things that terminations should be done, even if there is still a fetal heartbeat, because the pregnancy is not able to continue anyway and if left to proceed as it did with this unfortunate woman...you end up with these exact consequences.

were the Doctors this ignorant then?

This sounds precisely for what the law had the case that abortion was permissible when threatening the mother´s life.

 

[Draka]

were the Doctors this ignorant then?

This sounds precisely for what the law had the case that abortion was permissible when threatening the mother´s life.

I would say "yes". Hence the ongoing investigations. The strict adherence to not performing a termination as long as there is a fetal heartbeat above and beyond concern for whether or not the mother's life was put into jeopardy is exactly why this case is, and should be, investigated.

 

[Me Myself]

I wonder about this "adherence". I mean, they could follow the law that said that ABORTION (which wouldn´t be called that if the baby was dead already) is allowed if it risks the mother´s health, so I just don´t get what they are talking about the heartbeat.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This was refused, he says, because the foetal heartbeat was still present and they were told, “this is a Catholic country”.

She spent a further 2½ days “in agony” until the foetal heartbeat stopped.
[/INDENT]Isn't the movement supposed to be "pro-LIFE?"

No, it's not. At least the Catholic anti-abortion movement isn't.

The doctors' actions were entirely in keeping with Catholic doctrine: they determined that the fetus was not dead, so they didn't take any actions that would cause the death of the fetus.

It doesn't matter that the fetus was about to die, or that not terminating the pregnancy was risking the life of the mother. If they had terminated the pregnancy, then the fetus would have died from that, not from what would have killed it in short order anyhow.

I think this is a good example of why "anti-choice" is a more accurate term for the anti-abortion movement than "pro-life" is. If a person is consistently against a woman's right to choose but hit-and-miss on her right to life, then it's inaccurate to call him "pro-life".

 

[Draka]

I wonder about this "adherence". I mean, they could follow the law that said that ABORTION (which wouldn´t be called that if the baby was dead already) is allowed if it risks the mother´s health, so I just don´t get what they are talking about the heartbeat.

Obviously, somebody was in denial that the mother's life was really in any jeopardy. It probably boils down to someone being adamantly, and to the point of stupidly, against abortions so much that they denied the woman being in trouble so as not to have to end the pregnancy themselves and just "let God do it". This is what the investigation is for. This is all extremely unfortunate for the lady and her husband and their family, but hopefully, this investigation does actually root out problems and people and this doesn't happen to anyone there again.