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Negatives could be proved

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Some people have a blind faith that negatives cannot be proved.

I think negatives could be proved as could the positives.

Like one could take somebody into a room to prove that there is nobody in the room.

With a tester one could prove that no live current of electricity is in a wire.

Do you agree that negatives could be proved?
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
Negatives can be proved via lack of evidence.


If the watch-dog detects an intruder, the dog will bark.
The dog did not bark
Therefore, no intruder was detected by the watch-dog.

However, that does not prove that an intruder does not exist. Only that the watch dog does not detect the intruder. There could be extenuating circumstances as to why the watch dog could not detect that particular intruder.
 

Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
However, that does not prove that an intruder does not exist. Only that the watch dog does not detect the intruder. There could be extenuating circumstances as to why the watch dog could not detect that particular intruder.
...which is why positive proof is better than negative proof.
 

otokage007

Well-Known Member
Of course negatives can be proven. When facing a problem, there's always a minimum of two hipothesis:

Hipothesis 1: X = 1
Hipothesis 2: X isn't.

What can not be proven, is the non-existence. There's no possible experimentation to prove that. God doesn't exist, Mermaids don't exist, extraterrestrials don't exist <- All these hipothesis can not be proven because are not sucsceptible to experimentation.

That's why, in science, we say that when there's no evidence suggesting the existence of something, that thing doesn't exist.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Of course negatives can be proven. When facing a problem, there's always a minimum of two hipothesis:

Hipothesis 1: X = 1
Hipothesis 2: X isn't.

What can not be proven, is the non-existence.
:facepalm:


That's why, in science, we say that when there's no evidence suggesting the existence of something, that thing doesn't exist.
Science says no such thing, primarily because to do so would be embarrassingly stupid.
 

otokage007

Well-Known Member
Jay is right.

lol. Exactly on which part? When he says you can design an experiment with just an hipothesis which is clearly something a person that never worked on the research field would say. Or when he says when science states non-existence is because it has proved it?

Actually this is the answer to the first part: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Null_hypothesis. What you try to prove with an experiment is a null hypothesis, which is often a negative. If data reject null hypothesis through an stadistic study, your alternative hipothesis is true. Whether you like it or not, you will always have two hypothesis for each experiment: the thing you want to prove, and its alternative.

And for the second part, it is really simple: mermaids do not exist. Why? Because there's no evidence towards their existence, therefore they do not exist, untill the contrary is proven. That's how science works.
 
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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
lol. Exactly on which part?
Quote:
Originally Posted by otokage007
That's why, in science, we say that when there's no evidence suggesting the existence of something, that thing doesn't exist.

Jay:
Science says no such thing, primarily because to do so would be embarrassingly stupid. __________________
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
Revoltingest is right about Jay being right.

Science makes no such claim about something not existing. Only positive claims about what does exist can actually be made. Lack of evidence does not mean evidence against. There can be no claim against the existence of something. It can only be said that there hasn't been any verified evidence found in support of it so far and be left at that.
 

otokage007

Well-Known Member
Science makes no such claim about something not existing. Only positive claims about what does exist can actually be made. Lack of evidence does not mean evidence against. There can be no claim against the existence of something. It can only be said that there hasn't been any verified evidence found in support of it so far and be left at that.

Well of course. That's exactly what I tried to say. Lack of evidence make hipothesis remain hipothesis. If existence is not proven, then that thing doesn't exist untill the contrary is proven. Mermaids do not exist, any scientist will tell you that, when asked why, they will answer: well because there's no evidence suggesting they do.

And as I said myself on my first post: non existence can not be proven.
 
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