Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Hello y'all,
I don't think this question has been asked here before, I just wanted to know if Tao is the same as Consciousness or Brahman in Advaita, or could it (Tao) be interpreted that way?
Thank you
i don't think it matters... either way its the same thing, if anything i think consciousness would subtract from the concept. and technically this question is unawnserable for it would no longer be the taoHello y'all,
I don't think this question has been asked here before, I just wanted to know if Tao is the same as Consciousness or Brahman in Advaita, or could it (Tao) be interpreted that way?
Thank you
The answer above is the most perfect answer, but I figure we can take a little bit of concrete analytical yang with our abstract and mysterious yin, eh?
The Tao COULD be interpreted that way... if you wanted to interpret it incorrectly. To my knowledge (which shows much greater depth in Taoism than it does in Advaita), there are fundamental differences (I may be wrong at any point regarding Advaita, so there's your grain of salt. Take it, dammit!). Specifically, the Tao lacks intention and awareness, and is thus fundamentally not conscious of itself (or anything else). Further, I understand Brahman to be a unified substance, whereas the Tao is neither form nor substance. It lacks separation, yes, but it also lacks unity. It lacks, in fact, itself. Also, it is my understanding that contact with Brahman is an experience of mystical unity. Having experienced mystical unity, it is not the same as (in terms of experienced nature) contact with the Tao, which is better described as an experience of mystical CLARITY, wherein the separation/unity thing is not to be described. To (inaccurately) describe, I understand contact with Brahman to be stillness to the point of transcendence, whereas contact with the Tao is movement to the point of transcendence..
Not so easy.
Brahman is indescribable and so is not a substance. Mystical unity is only a mental step, since Brahman is not separate from anything.
OTOH, if Tao was fundamentally not conscious of itself then one attaining Tao will be no better than a stone. You mean that Mystical clarity emanates from us the discrete pieces and it is not endowed by Tao?
I agree the Tao is aware, alive, however we might put it. Is is conscious. I would just like to caution us that a stone is also the Tao; it is simply much less aware than we are (hopefully).
More precisely, the stone does less thinking than we do, And so ironically it is closer to the Tao in many ways.
A stone is no more the Tao than an electron in your body is you.
Here is a little allegory for you to reflect on, don't be like the character 'Knowledge' and imagine 'you' can attain a sense of knowing the Tao, it is non-dual and hence is forever on the other side of knowledge.
Knowledge had rambled northwards to the region of the Dark Water, where he ascended the height of Imperceptible Slope, when it happened that he met with Dumb Inaction. Knowledge addressed him, saying, 'I wish to ask you some questions:-- By what process of thought and anxious consideration do we get to know the Tâo? Where should we dwell and what should we do to find our rest in the Tâo? From what point should we start and what path should we pursue to make the Tâo our own?' He asked these three questions, but Dumb Inaction gave him no reply. Not only did he not answer, but he did not know how to answer.
Knowledge, disappointed by the fruitlessness of his questioning, returned to the south of the Bright Water, and ascended the height of the End of Doubt, where he saw Heedless Blurter, to whom he put the same questions, and who replied, 'Ah! I know, and will tell you.' But while he was about to speak, he forgot what he wanted to say.
Knowledge, again receiving no answer to his questions, returned to the palace of the the Yellow emperor, where he saw Hwang-Tî (Yellow emperor), and put the questions to him. Hwang-Tî said, 'To exercise no thought and no anxious consideration is the first step towards knowing the Tâo; to dwell nowhere and do nothing is the first step towards resting in the Tâo; to start from nowhere and pursue no path is the first step towards being one with the Tâo.'
Knowledge then proudly addressed Hwang-Tî, saying, 'I and you know this, but those two did not know it; which of us is right?' Hwang-Tî replied, 'Dumb Inaction is truly right, Heedless Blurter has an appearance of being so, but you and I are nowhere near to being so". As it is said, "Those who know do not speak of it, those who speak of it do not know it", and "Hence the sage conveys his instructions without the use of speech." - Chuang Tzu
So long as there a you Vichar, that is coming closer to the Tao, experiencing the Tao, thinking about the Tao, offering opinions about the Tao, etc., then the Tao remains obscured.
This is most esoteric and to paraphrase a mystical saying of note, the Tao can only be revealed by the Tao to the Tao through the medium of the Tao, all else is error and vanity.
Iow, the 'I' must cease arising to obscure the Tao, but don't imagine this means the extinction, rather transcendence beyond the ken of mortal mind.
This is why the stone is closer to the Tao. It does not think about "I". It does not worry about being closer to the Tao. But a stone is conscious. It's just a matter of degree. One can (eventually) sense this directly.
Esoteric things appear to be quite mysterious, but then again from another viewpoint they are laughly obvious. A little like riddles (but those are all mental, of course). The old man did a great job with the Tao Te Ching (or the guy that wrote down what he said), but it's practical advice. It's not unapproachable, and it's not meant to be "too deep to understand". If we go to that extreme, nothing that is spirit can be expressed with words or thoughts. We only refer to things with words. They help us understand what it is we're trying to discard--we are naturally bouyant otherwise and our consciousness will naturally emerge as dead weight is thrown overboard.
There are a few different concepts in taoism for what tao means. Consciousness is not one of them. Literally, it means "way". So, the way things are, the way to get where you want to go, the way things came to be etc.
Friend Alceste, if you understand the Way does not refer to universal consciousness, then so be it, and if another understands the Way does refer to universal consciousness, then also, so be it!
That Way is non-dual and hence is not affected by personal opinions as to what the Tao represents!
The Great Way is not difficult
for those who have no preferences.
When love and hate are both absent
everything becomes clear and undisguised.
Make the smallest distinction, however,
and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart.
If you wish to see the truth
then hold no opinions for or against anything.
To set up what you like against what you dislike
is the disease of the mind.
When the deep meaning of things is not understood
the mind's essential peace is disturbed to no avail.
The Way is perfect like vast space
where nothing is lacking and nothing is in excess.
Indeed, it is due to our choosing to accept or reject
that we do not see the true nature of things.
Be serene in the oneness of things
and such erroneous views will disappear by themselves. - Chien-chih Seng-ts'an
Kind of shoots your bolded sentence in the foot there with the bit about "erroneous views" at the end, doesn't he.