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Did Jesus really have to die for our sins?

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
God is all powerful, why make a man just to die to save everyone when he could just do it by thinking it happening?

Yes, I know I will get a lot of comments saying "Jesus is no man! He is God!" Well, technically isn't he a demigod? Half man half God? And even if you don't consider him to be, it just made people suffer from sadness, especially Mary the mother of Jesus.
 

Alex_G

Enlightner of the Senses
The idea of human sacrifice never sits well with me. I think empathy elicited can be real, but by no means is that 'good' a legitimate justification for the forced closure of some1ns life.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
God is all powerful, why make a man just to die to save everyone when he could just do it by thinking it happening?

Yes, I know I will get a lot of comments saying "Jesus is no man! He is God!" Well, technically isn't he a demigod? Half man half God? And even if you don't consider him to be, it just made people suffer from sadness, especially Mary the mother of Jesus.

Apparently the answer is yes, Jesus had to die for our sins. Logic disagrees, but scripture agrees. One has to decide if logic or scripture is above the other. To my surprise, most people would actually pick logic over scripture.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
justification for Adams wrongdoing required it. What God did was give mankind a new father who was exactly like Adam, human and perfect, so that mankind can choose to either keep their imperfect father Adam by following Adams example, or choose to follow the example of Jesus and become children of Jesus, a perfect sinless man thus putting themselves in line for being viewed as perfect and sinless so that death can be done away with.

1Cor 15:21 For since death is through a man, resurrection of the dead is also through a man. 22 For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive

If Adam remained sinless, he would not have died and nor would his children. Because Jesus did remain sinless, those who want to be his children can have life. This is how God legally establishes redemption for Adams children.
 

geoff29

New Member
Is it possible that by having a metaphorical "son" undergo the most extremely agonizing suffering death, we have been shown that no person is exempt from sorrow in this life, and God's "son" serves as proof? It's not that Jesus Christ is any more son than the rest of us, it's only that he more than many was not given an "easy" solution, when, apparently, he may have been.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
if jesus died an old man and of natural causes, was he really god?
why does a god have to be murdered/sacrificed in order for god to be god?
but wait a second...how can god die...?
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Whether the Carpenter was God ...or not....
Scapegoating doesn't work.

He did not die for our sins.

He died because He was accused of insurrection.
Someone pointed a finger and said....
'....king of the Jews....'

Rome was not in the business of controlling religious faiths.
There was only Caesar.
Allowing anyone to call you a king.....would be a 'problem'.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
if jesus died an old man and of natural causes, was he really god?
why does a god have to be murdered/sacrificed in order for god to be god?
but wait a second...how can god die...?

He was in a human body though
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Whether the Carpenter was God ...or not....
Scapegoating doesn't work.

He did not die for our sins.

He died because He was accused of insurrection.
Someone pointed a finger and said....
'....king of the Jews....'

Rome was not in the business of controlling religious faiths.
There was only Caesar.
Allowing anyone to call you a king.....would be a 'problem'.

But if he knew they were coming, why not just escape?
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
But if he knew they were coming, why not just escape?

There was no escape.

If He simply disappeared...then what?
Most people having heard and seen, would then see Him 'run away'.
And that would do what for the many things He said and did?
 

mr black

Active Member
justification for Adams wrongdoing required it. What God did was give mankind a new father who was exactly like Adam, human and perfect, so that mankind can choose to either keep their imperfect father Adam by following Adams example, or choose to follow the example of Jesus and become children of Jesus, a perfect sinless man thus putting themselves in line for being viewed as perfect and sinless so that death can be done away with.

1Cor 15:21 For since death is through a man, resurrection of the dead is also through a man. 22 For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive

If Adam remained sinless, he would not have died and nor would his children. Because Jesus did remain sinless, those who want to be his children can have life. This is how God legally establishes redemption for Adams children.
Strange that, I thought anger was a sin.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
There was no escape.

If He simply disappeared...then what?
Most people having heard and seen, would then see Him 'run away'.
And that would do what for the many things He said and did?

He could take his followers with him.
 

Trey of Diamonds

Well-Known Member
God is all powerful, why make a man just to die to save everyone when he could just do it by thinking it happening?

Maybe that's what he did. Maybe he created the metaphor of Jesus and planted it in our minds so that Jesus didn't really have to die. After all, if he could plant all those dinosaur bones I'm sure he could handle a metaphor or two.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
He was in a human body though

yes he was wasn't he...
but when we talk of death, what are we talking about?

for the sake of argument, lets just say jesus died for our sins...
our absolution of sins will guarantee a spiritual eternal life
then how was jesus sacrifice bear any consequence for the eternal soul as he could have died of natural causes to get the same result...

seems strange to me that he had to be sacrificed on the cross, or is it a way for the christian religion to reconcile that jesus was a false messiah and somehow this sacrifice, even though god detested human sacrifices, was more meaningful than just dying of natural causes.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Maybe that's what he did. Maybe he created the metaphor of Jesus and planted it in our minds so that Jesus didn't really have to die. After all, if he could plant all those dinosaur bones I'm sure he could handle a metaphor or two.

If Jesus were a metaphor, there would have been no apostles, thus no Christianity.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
yes he was wasn't he...
but when we talk of death, what are we talking about?

for the sake of argument, lets just say jesus died for our sins...
our absolution of sins will guarantee a spiritual eternal life
then how was jesus sacrifice bear any consequence for the eternal soul as he could have died of natural causes to get the same result...

seems strange to me that he had to be sacrificed on the cross, or is it a way for the christian religion to reconcile that jesus was a false messiah and somehow this sacrifice, even though god detested human sacrifices, was more meaningful than just dying of natural causes.

Another good point.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
That doesn't help....won't change the effect.
And of course...it was never a situation of.... fight or flight.
interesting notion when you're talking about god

You did read the gospels....and noticed....neither happened.

why is absolution validated with a sacrifice, if jesus' death of natural causes would have had the same consequence?
 
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