Christians, Is Peter the rock?

[ForeverFaithful]

So reading up some stuff and Matt 19:18-18
"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Now is Peter what Christ is building his Church on, and how does the concept of binding and loosing come into play in modern Christianity

As a Protestant I'm awaiting the responses

 

[james2ko]

So reading up some stuff and Matt 19:18-18
"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Now is Peter what Christ is building his Church on, and how does the concept of binding and loosing come into play in modern Christianity

As a Protestant I'm awaiting the responses

I'll do my best to answer the first question. In Mat 16:18, there are two different Greek words used for "rock". One identifies Peter [petros], the other refers to Christ [Petra]. A careful reading will reveal Christ was referring to Himself as the Rock [Petra] or Chief cornerstone of which the church would be built.

Jesus said, “And I say unto thee, that thou art Peter {Greek: petros, a piece of a rock], and upon this ROCK [Greek: PETRA, or large ROCK-cornerstone) I will build My Church, and the gates of hades {the grave-death) shall not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18).​

Most people assume Christ is building His Church on Peter. But this is not the case. Christ is the great "Rock" upon whom the Church is built (Deut. 32:3-4, 15, 18; I Cor. 10:4; Eph. 2:20; I Pet. 2:6), not Peter (Eph. 1:22; 5:23; Col. 1:18).

 

[Bob Dixon]

I'll do my best to answer the first question. In Mat 16:18, there are two different Greek words used for "rock". One identifies Peter [petros], the other refers to Christ [Petra]. A careful reading will reveal Christ was referring to Himself as the Rock [Petra] or Chief cornerstone of which the church would be built.

Jesus said, “And I say unto thee, that thou art Peter {Greek: petros, a piece of a rock], and upon this ROCK [Greek: PETRA, or large ROCK-cornerstone) I will build My Church, and the gates of hades {the grave-death) shall not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18).​

Most people assume Christ is building His Church on Peter. But this is not the case. Christ is the great "Rock" upon whom the Church is built (Deut. 32:3-4, 15, 18; I Cor. 10:4; Eph. 2:20; I Pet. 2:6), not Peter (Eph. 1:22; 5:23; Col. 1:18).

I'm actually inclined to agree with you, but do you have any, like, scholarly sources that back you up and stuff?

 

[james2ko]

I'm actually inclined to agree with you, but do you have any, like, scholarly sources that back you up and stuff?

Scholars have their place. But in this instance are not necessary. All that is needed is a bible, a concordance, bible dictionary and some critical thinking. Check all the verses especially 1 Co 10:4 where Paul identifies Christ by using the same Greek word for "Rock" Christ used to identify Himself in Mat 16:18.

 

[Bob Dixon]

Scholars have their place. But in this instance are not necessary. All that is needed is a bible, a concordance, bible dictionary and some critical thinking. Check all the verses especially 1 Co 10:4 where Paul identifies Christ by using the same Greek word for "Rock" Christ used to identify Himself in Mat 16:18.

Nuh-uh! The Bible stands by itself, but it's scripture, so interpreting it properly requires at least a few people who actually know what they're doing.
I don't mean that scholars are perfect or something but... I mean, if you want to know medicine, you go to the doctor, right? Is the doctor perfect? No, but...

 

[james2ko]

Nuh-uh! The Bible stands by itself, but it's scripture, so interpreting it properly requires at least a few people who actually know what they're doing. I don't mean that scholars are perfect or something but... I mean, if you want to know medicine, you go to the doctor, right? Is the doctor perfect? No, but...

As you said, scholars are not perfect and your interpretation can be just as good as there's with prayer and diligent study. I use them sparingly for historical, background, geographical information and even less or none at all to establish doctrine. There's nothing like reading the bible for yourself and using the information God provided along with your mind to establish conclusions. After all, isn't that what scholars do? Have a little more faith in your own abilities. You are probably more capable than you think.

BTW, I take the same approach for my health. I use doctors sparingly and do my own research on alternative healing methods. For instance, I spent 5 days in an award winning hospital. Four specialists and 30k later, they finally figured out what it was but couldnt tell me what caused it or how to cure it. Two weeks later with a little research and prayer, I was cured using natural healing methods which left the top-notch doctors scratching their heads. The moral of the story? Take man's opinion with a grain of salt no matter how much education and knowledge they claim to have.

 

[ForeverFaithful]

I'll do my best to answer the first question. In Mat 16:18, there are two different Greek words used for "rock". One identifies Peter [petros], the other refers to Christ [Petra]. A careful reading will reveal Christ was referring to Himself as the Rock [Petra] or Chief cornerstone of which the church would be built.

Jesus said, “And I say unto thee, that thou art Peter {Greek: petros, a piece of a rock], and upon this ROCK [Greek: PETRA, or large ROCK-cornerstone) I will build My Church, and the gates of hades {the grave-death) shall not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18).​

Most people assume Christ is building His Church on Peter. But this is not the case. Christ is the great "Rock" upon whom the Church is built (Deut. 32:3-4, 15, 18; I Cor. 10:4; Eph. 2:20; I Pet. 2:6), not Peter (Eph. 1:22; 5:23; Col. 1:18).

So who then can bind and loosen the commandments? And isn't this contrary to the Gospel of Matthew when Matthew claims that the Commandments will stand until Heaven and Earth pass away?

 

[Tom Terrific]

I'll do my best to answer the first question. In Mat 16:18, there are two different Greek words used for "rock". One identifies Peter [petros], the other refers to Christ [Petra]. A careful reading will reveal Christ was referring to Himself as the Rock [Petra] or Chief cornerstone of which the church would be built.

Jesus said, “And I say unto thee, that thou art Peter {Greek: petros, a piece of a rock], and upon this ROCK [Greek: PETRA, or large ROCK-cornerstone) I will build My Church, and the gates of hades {the grave-death) shall not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18).​

Most people assume Christ is building His Church on Peter. But this is not the case. Christ is the great "Rock" upon whom the Church is built (Deut. 32:3-4, 15, 18; I Cor. 10:4; Eph. 2:20; I Pet. 2:6), not Peter (Eph. 1:22; 5:23; Col. 1:18).

The noun is declined differently in Greek, but not in Aramaic. My information is that in Aramaic the form of the noun in both places is identical. I believe scholars generally think that Matthew was originally written in Aramaic. If so, then this is an argument based on an accident of translation, unless one takes the position that the translation from Aramaic into Greek was also inspired.

Note: I'm not suggesting that Jesus didn't mean exactly what you say he meant -- I think the Hebrew prophets used puns as teaching tools, and I think this would qualify as one -- but arguing from the changing declension of the noun may be weaker than you think.

 

[InChrist]

So reading up some stuff and Matt 19:18-18
"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Now is Peter what Christ is building his Church on, and how does the concept of binding and loosing come into play in modern Christianity

As a Protestant I'm awaiting the responses

Below is a link to an excellent study on this passage, including the meaning of binding and loosing:
Peter’s Confession And Christ’s Church (Matthew 16:13-20)

http://bible.org/seriespage/peter’s-confession-and-christ’s-church-matthew-1613-20

 

[james2ko]

So who then can bind and loosen the commandments?

Cornerstones [petra] (Christ) must be in place before the foundation (apostles) can be poured on it (Luk 6:48). They are both part of the foundation but the cornerstone [petra] plays a more important role. This is confirmed in Eph 2:20. With that said, Christ, the only law [commandment] giver (Jas 4:12), can certainly bestow His authority to make decisions and judgments on doctrine based on, and within the scope of, His law. In Mat 16:18, He conveyed His authority to Peter, and later, to the rest of His disciples (Mat 18:18).

And isn't this contrary to the Gospel of Matthew when Matthew claims that the Commandments will stand until Heaven and Earth pass away

I don't see the contradiction

 

[james2ko]

The noun is declined differently in Greek, but not in Aramaic. My information is that in Aramaic the form of the noun in both places is identical. I believe scholars generally think that Matthew was originally written in Aramaic. If so, then this is an argument based on an accident of translation, unless one takes the position that the translation from Aramaic into Greek was also inspired.

Note: I'm not suggesting that Jesus didn't mean exactly what you say he meant -- I think the Hebrew prophets used puns as teaching tools, and I think this would qualify as one -- but arguing from the changing declension of the noun may be weaker than you think.

In this case, knowledge of Greek and Aramaic pronouns, although helpful, is unnecessary. The bible, more often than not, interprets itself:

1Co 10:4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock [Petra] was Christ.

Mat 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock [Petra] I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.​

Paul clearly refers to Christ as "that Rock" [Petra]. This is the same Greek word used by Christ to describe Himself as "this Rock"[Petra] in Mat 16:18.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

In this case, knowledge of Greek and Aramaic pronouns, although helpful, is unnecessary. The bible, more often than not, interprets itself:

1Co 10:4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock [Petra] was Christ.

Mat 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock [Petra] I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.​

Paul clearly refers to Christ as "that Rock" [Petra]. This is the same Greek word used by Christ to describe Himself as "this Rock"[Petra] in Mat 16:18.

Good point ^above^that Paul [1Cor.11v3;10v4] showed the rock was Jesus.

Also, decades later [1st Peter 2vs4-8] Peter himself believed that he did not think he was the rock, but Peter wrote Jesus was the long-foretold foundation cornerstone who was chosen by God himself.

If Peter was the rock why didn't the other apostles conclude the same thing?
The other apostles were present when Jesus made his statement.
If Jesus had given Peter primary importance in front of those present apostles, then why would they later argue over which one seemed to be greatest ?
- Mark 9vs33-35; Luke 22vs24-26.

 

[Astounded]

Mat 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this Christ I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

Then the sentence makes no sense......

You confuse authority with teaching authority. All of the apostles have equal authority. Peter is given the teaching authority for the church by Jesus.

The Father hands off His teaching authority to the Son The Word). The Son hands off His teaching authority to Peter. Peter hands off to his successor/s.

 

[james2ko]

Mat 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this Christ I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

Then the sentence makes no sense......

That is the result of altering the text by replacing an intended metaphor with an actual name.

 

[ChristineES]

I believe that all the Christian denominations can be connected by Jesus, making one single "Church" out of all Christians, no matter what the denomination is. I believe that Peter or Cephas (Simon) was the cornerstone of this Church. We are all built upon that cornerstone, while Jesus is the foundation.

 

[Katzpur]

So reading up some stuff and Matt 19:18-18
"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Now is Peter what Christ is building his Church on, and how does the concept of binding and loosing come into play in modern Christianity

As a Protestant I'm awaiting the responses

I don't believe that Jesus Christ built His Church on someone else. That wouldn't make sense to me. Keep in mind the context of what you just quoted. Jesus had asked the question, "...But whom say ye that I am?" Peter responded: "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." And Jesus said, "Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." I believe the rock on which Christ built his church is the rock of revelation -- the only means by which we can come to recognize truth. As Jesus pointed out, Peter hadn't come to the conclusion that He was "the Christ, the Son of the living God" through arguments of mortal men (i.e. flesh and blood). The way he (but apparently none of the others at that particular time) knew for sure who Jesus was was by revelation from Heaven. The only way the Church He would establish could exist in its pure, uncorrupted state over the centures ahead would be for direct communication from Heaven to Earth to continue. Jesus knew that Peter was someone to whom God could speak and who would recognize what he heard God tell him as being the truth.

 

[Katzpur]

So who then can bind and loosen the commandments?

Only someone who has the authority Christ said He was going to give Peter.

 

[ForeverFaithful]

Only someone who has the authority Christ said He was going to give Peter.

Does that mean the Apostles and their successors? Does that mean my (Anglican) Bishop can bind and loose whatever he wants when ever?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Does that mean the Apostles and their successors? Does that mean my (Anglican) Bishop can bind and loose whatever he wants when ever?

Mt [16v19] what are the keys?

Jesus made reference to the subject of keys when he brought out that the religious leaders, who were supposed to be versed in the law,
took away the key of knowledge..... [Luke 11 vs52,53]

Mt [23v13] mentions the Pharisees shut up [locked] the kingdom of heaven.
As a key can lock up, they were keeping locked up entry into the kingdom.
Peter was now going to unlock what the religious leaders had shut up.
[Acts 2vs1-41]
As a result of the knowledge poured out at Pentecost,
'first' Peter would use a key to unlock knowledge to the: Jews.
Peter said to 'repent and be baptized' which was followed by about 3,000 Jews [now Jewish converts] now had the entry way to heaven unlocked to them.

The second key was to unlock knowledge about the entrance to the kingdom to the: Samaritans.
[Acts 8vs13-17]

Thirdly, Peter introduced to the 'gentiles' the way for kingdom entry to Cornelius. The knowledge door was now completely unlocked,
and now the door of opportunity was open for all Jews, Samaritans, and gentiles to be members of the Christian congregation.
[Acts 10vs1-48; 15vs7-9]

Jesus, as the one true head of the congregation, did not mean Peter would direct over Jesus, or direct heaven, but rather Peter was to use his keys as heaven's instrument in unlocking certain determined things which he did.

[ 1st Cor 11v3; Eph 4 vs15,16; 5v23; Col. 2 vs8-19]

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I believe that all the Christian denominations can be connected by Jesus, making one single "Church" out of all Christians, no matter what the denomination is. I believe that Peter or Cephas (Simon) was the cornerstone of this Church. We are all built upon that cornerstone, while Jesus is the foundation.

Matt [21v42] calls Jesus the 'head of the corner' [cornerstone]
Mark [12v10] calls Jesus the 'head of the corner' [cornerstone]
Luke [20v17] calls Jesus the 'head of the corner' [cornerstone]
Head would be as in meaning: Chief. Jesus as Chief foundation cornerstone.

Ephesians [2v20] Christ himself being the chief cornerstone.
1st Peter [2v6] Jesus is the chief cornerstone.
Jesus as chief or foundation cornerstone.