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Satanism and Sex

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
Hmm, based on my research and this thread there actually does seem to be doctrine/dogma -- what about Lavey's writing or the writing on the ONA site? One of the most given reasons so far in this discussion against non-consensual sex is that Lavey wrote against it.

LaVey and the ONA speak for all LHP followers? That is strange as some of us are theistic or spiritual and most are against human sacrifice. The ONA speaks for fascist Satanism usually, tied to terrorism. Whether this is actually true or not, the ONA love the attention. Pseudo-satanism is not LHP. As for LaVeyan Satanism, it definitely does not speak for everyone. Rape is bad because it is bad, not cause LaVey said so. Unlike RHP groups, we can naturally be moral without orders and threats from deties.
 

Hexavibrongal

Soulmaster
LaVey and the ONA speak for all LHP followers?

I wasn't necessarily claiming that all LHP religions follow doctrine, but so far a lot of people are citing doctrine including the OP, and most LHP religions I've researched so far have at least a few basic documents that outline a few beliefs. Maybe there are some LHPers who read, follow, and believe nothing and rely solely on introspective meditation, but so far I haven't found anyone like that.

Rape is bad because it is bad

How do you know that? As stated, it kinda sounds like dogma! ;)
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
I wasn't necessarily claiming that all LHP religions follow doctrine, but so far a lot of people are citing doctrine including the OP, and most LHP religions I've researched so far have at least a few basic documents that outline a few beliefs. Maybe there are some LHPers who read, follow, and believe nothing and rely solely on introspective meditation, but so far I haven't found anyone like that.

People write books based on their beliefs. We read these books and the beliefs evolve and change into what works for us. It is not so much teaching as sharing ideas.

How do you know that? As stated, it kinda sounds like dogma! ;)

I think it is an absolute moral truth. SUPPOSEDLY rape is bad because god said so. However, god said so because rape is bad.
 

blackout

Violet.
I wasn't necessarily claiming that all LHP religions follow doctrine, but so far a lot of people are citing doctrine including the OP, and most LHP religions I've researched so far have at least a few basic documents that outline a few beliefs. Maybe there are some LHPers who read, follow, and believe nothing and rely solely on introspective meditation, but so far I haven't found anyone like that.

*raises hand*
 

blackout

Violet.
That's exactly how I would describe my approach to the Bible. :)

When I approached the Bible that way
I was told by other christians that I wasn't christian at all.

I realize now, that my Self Realized Christ'I'anity
was a Left hand Path/Gnostic type interpretation/understanding
of the Red letter (Jesus teachings only) Bible.

The rest of the Bible I no longer had any use for or interest in.
I followed no doctrine that told me "I couldn't do that".

But by modern doctrinal standards
no christian I knew would classify me as such.

So I handed back their doctrinal label
as it was of no longer of any use to me.

This all took place after I participated in doctrinal christianity for a time.
That almost killed me.

I don't like doctrine, and won't do it anymore.
I don't care WHOSE it is.
And if anyone says I'm not up to the par of some label or another
they can have it.

I Am Who I Am, by in'tuition.
If certain vocabularies, labels and ideas are useful to me,
I use them.
If they're not? :shrug:
The truth is, they don't really mean that much to me
in and of themselves.

Labels only hold illusory power anyway.
(and I say that, because that is how I see it.)
 
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ScottySatan

Well-Known Member
But what do you study and how do you know what to study if there's no doctrine?

People here are being nice enough to give you some information for free. You're overinterpreting the pieces of information you get to an absurd extreme. These conclusions you're drawing are your own invention.
 

Hexavibrongal

Soulmaster
People here are being nice enough to give you some information for free. You're overinterpreting the pieces of information you get to an absurd extreme. These conclusions you're drawing are your own invention.

I think the question i was asking is totally valid and relevant.
 
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Hexavibrongal

Soulmaster
I'm really not trying to be difficult, I'm just trying to understand where the concepts of morality in LHP really come from, and so far the answers have been too vague for me to feel like I have a satisfactory understanding of the source of LHP ethics except for ideas that come from doctrine.

It was a comment on your behaviour in general,

Okay, but I think it's fair to ask that when you quote me, that you at least take the time to find a quote that is most relevant to what you're saying. I don't think there's anything wrong with the question that you quoted within the context of the discussion that it was posed.
 
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-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
That depends on what kind of Christian you're talking about. I consider the Bible to be an error-prone historical document with a lot of bad information that is not true RHP philosophy. I really only trust the quotations in the Gospels.



As I've learned in the other thread that I started, the Order of Nine Angels would probably not have these kind of restrictions. The fact that it's against the law would only be relevant until one has enough power that they're above the law and can change it as they see fit.

The idea of being "consensual" also is not a black and white issue. What about telling big lies to someone to get them to consent to sex? What about drugging or casting spells or brain washing to cause someone's consent? Does "consent" mean that cheating on your partner without them knowing is prohibited?

You bring up a good point in this conversation about consensual sex being the only kind permitted. Don't spells which are designed to get someone to sleep with you infinge upon consensuality?
 

jasonwill2

Well-Known Member
So you guys do swinger parties right?

I've never heard of Satanists doing that but if everyone agreed on it I don't see what would be wrong with it.

You bring up a good point in this conversation about consensual sex being the only kind permitted. Don't spells which are designed to get someone to sleep with you infinge upon consensuality?

No more than people trying to win a girl's affections, or trying to court her. It's no different in functionality than wearing sexy clothing or hitting on someone. Likewise if a ritual fails it doesn't force them to have sex with you in the same that hitting on someone doesn't force them. It only works with someone that is sexually inclined towards with you to begin with, as all magic works with nature and not against it.
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
You bring up a good point in this conversation about consensual sex being the only kind permitted. Don't spells which are designed to get someone to sleep with you infinge upon consensuality?

Personally, I have never thought that chasing a piece of tail was important enough to do a ritual for. Nothing can be done to violate someones choice of free will anyway, but you can remove things that were impeding progress on your end. Of course she may still not like you, even if you aren't doing anything wrong. :) This does get me into another line of thought though...

If she actually wants to have sex with you... even if you caused it to happen... is it still consensual? :) Is this different that saying just the right thing and getting her panties to drop? Hmm, I am not so sure. :) I just know how to talk to women, and don't need the ritual. But, I can somewhat force the situation based on how I present myself... you see? Consensual really just means 'willingly' -- paying no mind to how she got there. :)
 
1- You are in a DIR

2- Judge by the fruits. If it has good fruits, it is good.

Okay, I'll bite, what is DIR?

Can we really judge what is good, or good fruit, without God's help? Seems everyone has their own view of what's good, which often conflict with what others judge as good.
 
LaVey and the ONA speak for all LHP followers? That is strange as some of us are theistic or spiritual and most are against human sacrifice. The ONA speaks for fascist Satanism usually, tied to terrorism. Whether this is actually true or not, the ONA love the attention. Pseudo-satanism is not LHP. As for LaVeyan Satanism, it definitely does not speak for everyone. Rape is bad because it is bad, not cause LaVey said so. Unlike RHP groups, we can naturally be moral without orders and threats from deties.

"Most" are against human sacrifice? Most?
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
Okay, I'll bite, what is DIR?

Can we really judge what is good, or good fruit, without God's help? Seems everyone has their own view of what's good, which often conflict with what others judge as good.

DIR means "Discuss Individual Religion". Each DIR has a specific religious umbrella, in which you have to either agree with the tenets of said religion being discussed, or only ask polite and relevant questions inquiring about the religion, in order to post.

EDIT: The DIR you are in is the LHP/Satanism sub-DIR.
 
DIR means "Discuss Individual Religion". Each DIR has a specific religious umbrella, in which you have to either agree with the tenets of said religion being discussed, or only ask polite and relevant questions inquiring about the religion, in order to post.

EDIT: The DIR you are in is the LHP/Satanism sub-DIR.

I see. I somehow accidentally ventured into that area somehow.
 
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