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11 Year Old Devout Athiest

linwood

Well-Known Member
Jayhawker has a valid point which is why I`ve always had a knowing smile on my face in this forum when reading posts by people who aren`t yet parents about how they wouldn`t influence their children to believe any certain religion/philosophy.

It can`t be avoided as your child will seek to emulate you regardless of your efforts at a neutral position for them.
This little fact has caused me more than my fair share of trouble over the past few years.
Trouble I went to great lengths to avoid.

Do I consider my child an atheist?

Yes, but only by the most base singular definition.
She holds no belief in a deity.

I want her to at one point study her options and come to a rational, learned position whatever that position may ultimately be.

I want her to one day ask the question "Why are we here?" and truly seek to find that answer until she eventually settles on a position that rings "True" to her.
Again it doesn`t matter to me what that position eventually is as long as it`s a position she has considered at great length in a rational manner.

Then and only then will it really be worth something.
Then and only then will she hold a philosophy that can truly help her get through life in the best manner possible.

Until she does this she really has no solid foundation to stand upon.

Granted, 11 is a little early to be pondering these questions so I think I`ll give her a little more time.

:)
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Granted, 11 is a little early to be pondering these questions so I think I`ll give her a little more time.
I didn't wait that long to ponder them.
I was lucky to have friends who liked to discuss such things for as long as I can remember.
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
I didn't wait that long to ponder them.
I was lucky to have friends who liked to discuss such things for as long as I can remember.

True, considering who her father is and the influence my beliefs have had on her life I know she has pondered the possibilities.

But I`m still gonna give her a little more time to come to a conclusion.

:)
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
True, considering who her father is and the influence my beliefs have had on her life I know she has pondered the possibilities.
But I`m still gonna give her a little more time to come to a conclusion.:)
I never thought of a time limit for my kids.
They just believe what they believe.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
True, considering who her father is and the influence my beliefs have had on her life I know she has pondered the possibilities.

But I`m still gonna give her a little more time to come to a conclusion.

:)

Sounds like it's time for Christian baptism. :D

Get rid of the atheism and all is well with the world.
 

Photonic

Ad astra!
Ahhh...

I have a problem.

My 11 year old daughter has just gotten a Facebook page (I know I know 13 is the age limit.) and she`s been having a blast playing games and chatting with her classmates online (Apparently I`m not the only one who could care less about age limits)

I just checked on her page for the 15th time today and see she has added "Devout Atheist" boldly displayed on her profile page.

<Sigh>

My atheism has caused many problems for my daughter most of which revolve around the fact that all my neighbors were very freindly and she played with the numerous kids in the neighborhood up and until my Devout Christian neighbors discovered my atheism.
Now she`s a leper and none of the kids in the neighborhood are allowed to play with her because she is of course satans child and will lead their kids into the very depths of hell.

Now her classmates parents will undoubtedly see that she`s a "devout atheist" and I fear the same ostracization will occur.

My wife wants it removed from her page.
I don`t want to give her any reason to believe there is shame in what she thinks she believes/disbelieves (I realize she`s 11 and may very well be a baptist preacher by the time she`s 22 but for now she claims atheism undoubtedly due to my beliefs)

You have to understand this kid isn`t your average 11 year old and neither are her classmates they`re all gifted with 130 or above IQ`s and in special classes running special critical thinking competitions and the whole parent/teacher/student/ situation in this class is very tight knit.
Most of them could perform well at high school levels in many areas.

She`s adamant she won`t remove it and I`m at a loss as I`ve always told her she should never be ashamed of whatever she believes about anything.

I`ve informed her she runs the risk of being ostracized in the same manner she was in our neighborhood and she just doesn`t give a damn.

She says that if they can`t accept her for what she is she doesn`t want their acceptance.
This of course fills me with so much pride I could burst but I really don`t want her tight knit "family" that the class has become over the past few years to shun her as it would truly hurt her.

I`m not worried about the kids reactions as truthfully most of them are smarter than their parents but I`m worried about what the parents might do or make their kids do.

What do I do here?

Help??
Respect her decisions and she'll respect yours.


Just leave it be.

Most people in my high school and my middle school didn't care about their parents religion and most knew I didn't believe in anything. It never affected anyone I know about and I seriously doubt it would affect your daughters relationship with the mainstream student base.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
My first thought on reading the thread title was "what's a devout atheist?" Whereof this devotion?
If she called herself a weak atheist might she be less threatening?

It also struck me that Jewish or Muslim kids might also call a Christian's faith into question. Do the neighborhood Christian kids associate exclusively with other Christians?


They don't call it "weak" atheism for nothing. No reasoning needed at all. :)
But the weak shall inherit the Earth.

oh wait... did I get that right?
 

SCHIZO

Active Member
Ahhh...

I have a problem.

My 11 year old daughter has just gotten a Facebook page (I know I know 13 is the age limit.) and she`s been having a blast playing games and chatting with her classmates online (Apparently I`m not the only one who could care less about age limits)

I just checked on her page for the 15th time today and see she has added "Devout Atheist" boldly displayed on her profile page.

<Sigh>

My atheism has caused many problems for my daughter most of which revolve around the fact that all my neighbors were very freindly and she played with the numerous kids in the neighborhood up and until my Devout Christian neighbors discovered my atheism.
Now she`s a leper and none of the kids in the neighborhood are allowed to play with her because she is of course satans child and will lead their kids into the very depths of hell.

Now her classmates parents will undoubtedly see that she`s a "devout atheist" and I fear the same ostracization will occur.

My wife wants it removed from her page.
I don`t want to give her any reason to believe there is shame in what she thinks she believes/disbelieves (I realize she`s 11 and may very well be a baptist preacher by the time she`s 22 but for now she claims atheism undoubtedly due to my beliefs)

You have to understand this kid isn`t your average 11 year old and neither are her classmates they`re all gifted with 130 or above IQ`s and in special classes running special critical thinking competitions and the whole parent/teacher/student/ situation in this class is very tight knit.
Most of them could perform well at high school levels in many areas.

She`s adamant she won`t remove it and I`m at a loss as I`ve always told her she should never be ashamed of whatever she believes about anything.

I`ve informed her she runs the risk of being ostracized in the same manner she was in our neighborhood and she just doesn`t give a damn.

She says that if they can`t accept her for what she is she doesn`t want their acceptance.
This of course fills me with so much pride I could burst but I really don`t want her tight knit "family" that the class has become over the past few years to shun her as it would truly hurt her.

I`m not worried about the kids reactions as truthfully most of them are smarter than their parents but I`m worried about what the parents might do or make their kids do.

What do I do here?

Help??

You let your daughter be who she is. You don't pretend to be something that you're not. You shouldn't hide who you are if its not embarassing or illegal. Don't let people control you just because you don't share the same beliefs that they share. I'm not Atheist but I respect your point of view and could find you insightful. If other people are not viewing you as having the same value then it is their ignorance that directs them. Don't let their ignorance direct you. If its not a matter of life and death don't try to hide who you are. This could be an opportunity to find the right people because if someone can't accept your atheism then they aren't the right people.
 

SCHIZO

Active Member
First, thanks for calling me deut - it's been a long time. :)

In my opinion ...
To believe oneself smarter and more sophisticated than one's peers is seductive, especially for an adolescent in the process of defining/establishing one's sense of self and self-worth, and skepticism is cheap. Most 11 year olds have no sense of philosophy or cosmology. Most are unaware of religious scholarship and incapable of evaluating its worth. Their 'atheism' is necessarily shallow and oft-times counter-cultural. In my opinion it is, at best, qualitatively premature.
... and I bet she'll turn out great.

I think it is shallow to believe that religious scholarship is a necessity in life. I remember being 11 years old and I wasn't brain dead. An atheist can develop from an 11 year old child just as Christians develop from 11 year olds. Children are quite capable of handling philosophy if it interests them. You're acting like you can't hold a conversation with a child about religion or atheism. I'm guessing you don't have children.
 

SCHIZO

Active Member
I'm not trying to argue the validity of either position in this thread. I'm simply trying to present the Christian argument as clear as possible. Understand that most Christian parents do not want their kids around people who could potentially lead their kids away from what they believe is the truth. Why? Because they believe that=hell. It's not out of hatred that they try to keep a safe distance from you and your family, it's out of fear. Most of these Christian parents probably wouldn't want their kids hanging out with any children other than other Christian children. If you were Muslim or Jewish you'd probably be dealing with the same situation. For your kid to really be considered acceptable as a playmate for the Christian children she'd probably have to lie and call herself a Christian. She might be able to sneak in by calling herself a theist (being very ambiguous about the specific type of theism). My attitude is that we as 21st century Westerners spoil our kids. In the Middle Ages, kids that were 8 years old would be working full time and they'd get married at 12. There's was a very harsh world yet they persevered. IMO, you should let your daughter be welcomed into the real world. Better that than live a lie. What kind of a lesson will it teach your daughter to lie about who she is in order to be welcomed. I've never been a parent but I am someone who's had their teeth kicked in on a constant basis since my earliest days. If you knew more about my life I guarantee you wouldn't challenge that claim. It's time to be a warrior I say.

The problem is that alot of Christians are pretentious. They're so dignified and important that they totally miss the meaning of the religion they flock to. Everything is Satan with these people too. Satan this, Satan that. Its completely deranged.
 
Hey Linwood.

My daughter is 15. She is a sophomore at a rural agricutural high school. She's always been a straight A student throughout her time in school. She has told me she considers herself an atheist, though I never thought to ask her why(don't know if I should). My wife considers herself a pagan but doesn't really practice anything(she also likes to joke that she is a recovering catholic).
My daughter was baptized because our families kinda pressured us into it.
Her godmother, an old friend of mine,took her to protestant churches when she was younger. We also have JW relatives who have taken her to their church at my daughters request. The only thing close to a religious discussion we had ever had was when she asked me about evolution(she was 11). I simply explained it to her and assumed she was questioning the creationist story.
She has told me this year that some kids at school had brought up religion and she told them she was an atheist. They asked her how she couldn't believe in god and she simply told them that she saw no real proof of a god. They didn't push her any further and apparently they haven't brought it up again. She told me about a boy at school who she is friends with who is also an atheist. I don't think these kids make a huge deal about it, even at this rural school.
But then again, we live in Mass. where religious beliefs are alot looser. She does fine, has lots of friends and is well adjusted, Though she is wicked stubborn and opinionated. But most teens are.
She's on facebook all the time but she doesn't profess her atheism there. I don't know, I might feel a little apprehensive if she did. There's a big difference in the few kids she interacts with at this small school and the 100+ friends she has on facebook. I stll wouldn't question her if she did it.
 

Heathen Hammer

Nope, you're still wrong
.
To believe oneself smarter and more sophisticated than one's peers is seductive, especially for an adolescent in the process of defining/establishing one's sense of self and self-worth, and skepticism is cheap. Most 11 year olds have no sense of philosophy or cosmology. Most are unaware of religious scholarship and incapable of evaluating its worth.
This applies equally to most of the theisms kids of the same age claim... and I guess we could extend this to many adults.
 

jarofthoughts

Empirical Curmudgeon

Your daughter is right, and she should be made very aware of this fact.
Mind you, I would have said the same thing if she had professed to being, say, a Christian. She should know (and it seems you have made sure she already knows) that her choices, as long as they don't hurt anyone else, is her choices to make.
But I think you have done the right thing about explaining the potential consequences to her. Being aware of and facing the consequences of our choices is also a vital part of that process.
 

Fester

Active Member
Ahhh...

You have to understand this kid isn`t your average 11 year old and neither are her classmates they`re all gifted with 130 or above IQ`s and in special classes running special critical thinking competitions and the whole parent/teacher/student/ situation in this class is very tight knit.
Just curious, has she or her peers received and religious (or anti-religious) indoctrination, either at school, home, or elsewhere? I am neutral with regards to what she puts on her FB profile, but it might help you to understand where she's coming from.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Today, 11 is the new 14.

I believe that a precocious 11 year old is CERTAINLY capable of grasping philosophical concepts. Heck, a precocious 9 year old is too for that matter. I remember reading some of Sir Thomas More's writings at that age and "getting it."

That being said, there's a reason that Facebook's official stance is that there's a 13 year age limit.

I think the lesson here is that you should support her desire and right to stand by her own belief system openly. That being said, you should closely monitor her cyberspace involvement and activities.

Kids can get themselves in over their heads when they immerse themselves in the unnaturally detached side of cyberspace (adults can too, for that matter, but it's your child and your responsibility to guide her that I'm talking about here). Adolescents (yep that's what you're dealing with here) can be very cruel, right to each others' faces. Put that cyber distancing between them and they can be downright sadistic.

Just watch it.
 
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