[.Averroes;2652339].
Hell is actually referred to in the old testament aswell as the new and therefore in Judaism thought......the hebrew word is sheol,meaning underworld,hell ,pit grave,and although there is no direct link to punishment in the old testament as Jesus speaks of , it is the abode of the dead, nonetheless, or another way to describe it is, the separated...this is my point.
Hell according to scripture thought is always suggestive of the notion that hell is not only an abode or place of the physical body after cessation of life, but a departure and separation of the soul from Gods presence and all that embodies his presence, which is suggestive throughout scripture as an existence unlike we know it in this physical realm, but it entails an eternal life,hope, peace, joy, comfort, possessing knowledge and awarness of your sorroundings, void of pain, hurt and misery,having roles and or positions in that life and many other pleasures.
Freewill is an integral part of our human existence in every area of life, it is something we like to maintain we have...it is one of our strongest factors that quite possibly keep us sane, but freewill, often a misnomer and usually umbeknown to many, must be properly exercised only within the confines of universal laws that are self existent. If we are to be literally honest.....freewill is in its self, nonexistent. Although we can convince ourselves we have freewill to choose to do what we want, when we want, how we want, such as to walk across the street, drive the car, eat in a restaurant, go to work, go swimming, regardless of what we expose ourselves to....... it is however, regulated and always contingent upon, self existing governing laws that are constant and active and that we must conduct our lives in accordance with.
So in essence, are we really deluded into thinking we are freewill agents in this universe?......not in the absolute way as we would like to think or from the standpoint many skeptics tend to argue from in Christian debates.
Why does that arguement always rear its ugly head when debating about God, hell, heaven,creation etc.
If someone chooses to live outside the confines of universal laws and jump off a bridge,or out of a plane without a parchute, speed down a highway at twice the speed of light or even break a civil law..would you claim the inevitable outcome of those laws being violated in each case would be unjust. Meaning, if the car hit a tree that Johnny was driiving and he ejected into a stationary tree, is that unjust ...maybe sad, but within laws, there has to exist justice and or injustice. If I jumped from the plane without a parachute, much the same idea...justice!!!!!!!! regardless, if I defy one law with another, the laws still exists and justice must be served if there is a violation of one or the other. Justice is always waiting to be served.....when and where is all that is in question.
Our bodies work the same way....under universal and physiological laws...outside these, we die..is this unjust. I rob a bank and am sent to jail being your only kid would that be unjust.
I live near Niagra falls..many people jump or fall in by accident...the laws that are self existing demonstrated in sweeping people away..are they unjust...no, they are accepted and understood and most importantly, adhered to with the utmost respect
In accordance to the laws that are institued , an injustice is someone evading those laws or escaping them by defying them ..never actually eradicating them...therefore, in this regard, there is no actual freewill, if you really want to be literal.
I think maybe you don't understand that hell was not created for people, as scripture explains....but will be used to house those who violate the spiritual laws of God...that is another thread...!!!!!
So as we have a choice to adhere to laws in this universe and enjoy a long healthy existence.....so it is with God and abiding by his laws stipulated in is word and carried out with the hekp of his spirit
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Sin is separation from God....Jesus according to scripture says he is the means to justify the ungodly from the consequences of their sinful violation of his laws, which are immutable.
I will respond to this later..its been awhile since I have been on ...hoping this will send correctly.
thanks roli
I'm sure this has been discussed here already, but I wanted to discuss the issue I personally have with the concept of Hell. This ethical issue is perhaps one of the ethical issues the Abrahamic faiths have concerning God's love and compassion for humankind. With the exception of Judaism, which from my understanding does not have a conceptual belief in hell, my main focus will be towards Christianity and Islam.
Hell is actually referred to in the old testament aswell as the new and therefore in Judaism thought......the hebrew word is sheol,meaning underworld,hell ,pit grave,and although there is no direct link to punishment in the old testament as Jesus speaks of , it is the abode of the dead, nonetheless, or another way to describe it is, the separated...this is my point.
Hell according to scripture thought is always suggestive of the notion that hell is not only an abode or place of the physical body after cessation of life, but a departure and separation of the soul from Gods presence and all that embodies his presence, which is suggestive throughout scripture as an existence unlike we know it in this physical realm, but it entails an eternal life,hope, peace, joy, comfort, possessing knowledge and awarness of your sorroundings, void of pain, hurt and misery,having roles and or positions in that life and many other pleasures.
.Because this is about the problem of hell, it is therefore impossible to not discuss the issues of predestination and freewill but I would hope for the duration of this discussion/debate we can not go so deep into freewill/predestination argument and stay focus on the topic
Freewill is an integral part of our human existence in every area of life, it is something we like to maintain we have...it is one of our strongest factors that quite possibly keep us sane, but freewill, often a misnomer and usually umbeknown to many, must be properly exercised only within the confines of universal laws that are self existent. If we are to be literally honest.....freewill is in its self, nonexistent. Although we can convince ourselves we have freewill to choose to do what we want, when we want, how we want, such as to walk across the street, drive the car, eat in a restaurant, go to work, go swimming, regardless of what we expose ourselves to....... it is however, regulated and always contingent upon, self existing governing laws that are constant and active and that we must conduct our lives in accordance with.
So in essence, are we really deluded into thinking we are freewill agents in this universe?......not in the absolute way as we would like to think or from the standpoint many skeptics tend to argue from in Christian debates.
Why does that arguement always rear its ugly head when debating about God, hell, heaven,creation etc.
One of the most peculiar things that occur to me about hell is that hell is considered a "just punishment" for those that transgress against God. However, one of the main issues that I find in hell is that because humans have a limited lifespan, humans therefore can only do a finite number amount of sin yet, upon death humans who transgress greatly, suffer infinite torment. I believe there was a philosopher who coined the term " La duración del Infierno" or that no transgression warrants infinite punishment because, there is no such thing as infinite transgression
If someone chooses to live outside the confines of universal laws and jump off a bridge,or out of a plane without a parchute, speed down a highway at twice the speed of light or even break a civil law..would you claim the inevitable outcome of those laws being violated in each case would be unjust. Meaning, if the car hit a tree that Johnny was driiving and he ejected into a stationary tree, is that unjust ...maybe sad, but within laws, there has to exist justice and or injustice. If I jumped from the plane without a parachute, much the same idea...justice!!!!!!!! regardless, if I defy one law with another, the laws still exists and justice must be served if there is a violation of one or the other. Justice is always waiting to be served.....when and where is all that is in question.
Our bodies work the same way....under universal and physiological laws...outside these, we die..is this unjust. I rob a bank and am sent to jail being your only kid would that be unjust.
I live near Niagra falls..many people jump or fall in by accident...the laws that are self existing demonstrated in sweeping people away..are they unjust...no, they are accepted and understood and most importantly, adhered to with the utmost respect
In accordance to the laws that are institued , an injustice is someone evading those laws or escaping them by defying them ..never actually eradicating them...therefore, in this regard, there is no actual freewill, if you really want to be literal.
I think maybe you don't understand that hell was not created for people, as scripture explains....but will be used to house those who violate the spiritual laws of God...that is another thread...!!!!!
So as we have a choice to adhere to laws in this universe and enjoy a long healthy existence.....so it is with God and abiding by his laws stipulated in is word and carried out with the hekp of his spirit
In this particular ideology shouldn't punishments in their duration fit the actual transgression, and not some unchanging present {e.g. infinity}?
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Sin is separation from God....Jesus according to scripture says he is the means to justify the ungodly from the consequences of their sinful violation of his laws, which are immutable.
Righteousness in christian scripture is imputed to the sinner by Christ and his sacrifice,as a free gift and only when recieved by the guilty is it actually appliedBoth Christianity and Islam postulate that sinning is avoidable, thus is the reason why God shows mercy upon sinning and since this is the case this is where we come to the problem of determinism. Since God knows before we do when, where, and why we are going to sin and knowing that Hell is very painful why doesn't God stop us? Violation of freewill? Well, if determinism is true then we never had a will to be free to begin with. But because Islam and Christianity defines "righteousness" not by simple moral acts of altruism but through simple moral acts along with the theological cognizance that there is One God, and that the person must too, acknowledge their respective prophet be it Jesus or Muhammad
Another problem with the aforementioned two divine figures is that what defines true belief, and if this is defined how does this belief equate to morality? I see divine mercy not only as a conditional setting by which those of us who wish to not be eternally tortured forced to choose but a conditional setting by which these two famous religions deity sets. How is this god merciful when I am essentially forced to do good since I know hell is unpleasant? Basically, I am neither free to do right or wrong and the actions that I determined to be free are nothing more than a chain of determinants based on previous influences. Basically I am doomed whether I like it or not.
I apologize if I kind of covered several topics at once in several paragraphs but without trying to sound wordy I was trying to cover all my points. Please let me know if there is any confusion.
I will respond to this later..its been awhile since I have been on ...hoping this will send correctly.
thanks roli
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