Virtue and Morals and Ethics and Ayn Rand

[The Sum of Awe]

Ayn Rand, I totally dislike her and her philosophy even more. Not only do I disagree with it, but it stresses so much narcissism, or so it seems, even though it does not admit it.

1) She thinks there are 'Absolute Morals' that we have to follow. Hell, I doubt it so much, but I guess it is possible. But when she listed them out, I was thinking, "Who is she to give out the morals? Certainly not God."

First on what she done is flat said out, in different words, that reason isn't the best way to go for ethics and morals, which I don't think is wrong. But then she goes and says what we should and should not do, and gives her reason on it!

2) Thanks to Debater Slater for telling me a quote from her today, "Altruism is the greatest evil." It proves she is selfish completely.

 

[Revoltingest]

..."Who is she to give out the morals?

She was a philosopher....so it was in her job description.
Tis just her opinions. We don't have to follow.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

She was a philosopher....so it was in her job description.
Tis just her opinions. We don't have to follow.

Okay, I see your point.

But it stresses me how she thinks they are objective and being that sure about them being right when she admits.. hopefully, that she is only human.

Although you are right.

 

[Sunstone]

Sam Harris somewhere describes Rand's philosophy as "autism recast". I think that's being charitable. There's evidence she was a sociopath. Her philosophy reflects that.

 

[Revoltingest]

Okay, I see your point.
But it stresses me how she thinks they are objective and being that sure about them being right when she admits.. hopefully, that she is only human.
Although you are right.

She had too much certainty for me.
Novel & interesting ideas though for those of us who were uncomfortable with the pervasive hive mentality.

 

[Sunstone]

Ayn Rand was a sociopath. She practically worshiped William Hickman, who was also a sociopath. Hickman came to her attention after he was arrested for the kidnap, rape, and murder of a 12 year old girl. Rand wrote glowingly that Hickman had "A wonderful, free, light consciousness" born of the utter absence of any understanding of "the necessity, meaning, or importance of other people." Her kind of human was sub-human. You can read the whole sickening story here.

 

[Revoltingest]

Ayn Rand was a sociopath. She practically worshiped William Hickman, who was also a sociopath. Hickman came to her attention after he was arrested for the kidnap, rape, and murder of a 12 year old girl. Rand wrote glowingly that Hickman had "A wonderful, free, light consciousness" born of the utter absence of any understanding of "the necessity, meaning, or importance of other people." Her kind of human was sub-human.You can read the whole sickening story here.

You might want to correct Wikipedia's article. Its take differs from yours.
William Edward Hickman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Sunstone]

For my money, the most hilarious critique of Rand and her philosophy was written by Michael Caigoy. Here's an except in which Caigoy sums up Rand's criticisms of ideologies other than her own:

"Listening to her impatience at other ideologies reminds me of a five year-old considering the world’s problems. Can’t get the Chilean miners out? “Why not just build a robot?” she’d say, handing over a sketch; herself pictured overseeing the operation from a unicorn. When kids do it, it’s cute (theoretically), but seeing a brusque Russian author do it — not so much."
​

You can read the rest of Caigoy's critique here. But strap yourself to your seat -- you'll be laughing so hard you might fall out.

 

[Sunstone]

Rand was not much in the way of an original thinker. She derived a lot of her ideas from her understanding of Nietzsche, but her understanding was remedial.

 

[Father Heathen]

Ayn Rand, I totally dislike her and her philosophy even more. Not only do I disagree with it, but it stresses so much narcissism, or so it seems, even though it does not admit it.

1) She thinks there are 'Absolute Morals' that we have to follow. Hell, I doubt it so much, but I guess it is possible. But when she listed them out, I was thinking, "Who is she to give out the morals? Certainly not God."

First on what she done is flat said out, in different words, that reason isn't the best way to go for ethics and morals, which I don't think is wrong. But then she goes and says what we should and should not do, and gives her reason on it!

2) Thanks to Debater Slater for telling me a quote from her today, "Altruism is the greatest evil." It proves she is selfish completely.

Odd that you would think so given that LeVayian Satanism borrows so much from her philosophy.

 

[Sunstone]

Basically, Rand is a cult figure. No matter what the evidence is, her defenders and groupies will never wake up from her kool-aid.

 

[Revoltingest]

Basically, Rand is a cult figure. No matter what the evidence is, her defenders and groupies will never wake up from her kool-aid.

Seems like her detractors drink from the same pitcher.
Would that make her an "anti-cult" figure or a "cult anti-figure"?

 

[Sunstone]

Basically, Rand is a cult figure. No matter what the evidence is, her defenders and groupies will never wake up from her kool-aid.

I think Caigoy points that out rather well -- and hilariously.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Rand was not much in the way of an original thinker. She derived a lot of her ideas from her understanding of Nietzsche, but her understanding was remedial.

How was she at all related to Nietzsche, ideal wise... I love Nietzsche's philosophy, I agree with it much.

I disagree with her's there must be something different.

 

[Sunstone]

How was she at all related to Nietzsche, ideal wise... I love Nietzsche's philosophy, I agree with it much.

I disagree with her's there must be something different.

At one point, back in the 1920s, I think, she considered herself a Nietzschean. But she failed to grasp Nietzsche in anything but a remedial way. Hence, she adopted a superficial view of what Nietzsche thought of as the ideal human. I think in her own mind, her heroes where like Nietzsche's "Supermen". But they actually bear as little resemblance to Nietzsche's "Supermen" as sickness bears to health. For instance, Nietszche's Supermen would at least be capable of feeling compassion for people whose values they thought were inferior to their own. It's doubtful whether Rand's heroes could.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Odd that you would think so given that LeVayian Satanism borrows so much from her philosophy.

It does? Such as? Maybe I have not studied much of Satanism.

 

[Father Heathen]

It does? Such as? Maybe I have not studied much of Satanism.

"I give people Ayn Rand with trappings" - Anton LaVey, founder of the Church of Satan (to Kim Klein of the Washington Post, 1970)

Anton LaVey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Revoltingest]

"I give people Ayn Rand with trappings" - Anton LaVey, founder of the Church of Satan (to Kim Klein of the Washington Post, 1970)

Anton LaVey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How about that....a connection between Rand & Satanism. (I'd read the Satanic Bible, but I never knew of his inspiration.)
Where else but on RF would the former be considered the epitome of evil, while the latter is a respected faith.

 

[doppelganger]

Rand was not much in the way of an original thinker. She derived a lot of her ideas from her understanding of Nietzsche, but her understanding was remedial.

She completely mis-read Nietzsche for years, believing she was carrying on where he'd left off. When it finally clicked that not only was his philosophy different that what she wanted to promote, but almost dead opposite of it, she expressed her dislike of him from then on.

To claim to be a philosopher and mis-read another philosopher's work that badly is embarrassing, and a sign of just how crappy a "philosopher" she was. She was also a crappy novelist. Her dialogue is awful. Her characters one dimensional, unsubtle and usually meant just to deliver speeches for her. Everything is black and white.

If you want to read real philosophical novelists, stick with Dostoevsky, Orwell, Conrad and Hesse.

 

[doppelganger]

"I give people Ayn Rand with trappings" - Anton LaVey, founder of the Church of Satan (to Kim Klein of the Washington Post, 1970)

Anton LaVey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

LaVey misread Nietzsche in the same way Rand did.