Seventy metal books found in cave in Jordan

[Zardoz]

What do you think? True, or hoax?

(No, this isn't for April Fools (AFAIK) and I don't think anyone else posted on this yet)

For scholars of faith and history, it is a treasure trove too precious for price.
This ancient collection of 70 tiny books, their lead pages bound with wire, could unlock some of the secrets of the earliest days of Christianity.
Academics are divided as to their authenticity but say that if verified, they could prove as pivotal as the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1947.
On pages not much bigger than a credit card, are images, symbols and words that appear to refer to the Messiah and, possibly even, to the Crucifixion and Resurrection.
Adding to the intrigue, many of the books are sealed, prompting academics to speculate they are actually the lost collection of codices mentioned in the Bible’s Book Of Revelation.
The books were discovered five years ago in a cave in a remote part of Jordan to which Christian refugees are known to have fled after the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD. Important documents from the same period have previously been found there.
Initial metallurgical tests indicate that some of the books could date from the first century AD.

Read more: 70 metal books found in Jordan cave could change our view of Biblical history | Mail Online

 

[Riverwolf]

Interesting. I'm putting my money on an April Fool's Joke, personally, but we'll see in a few days.

 

[ellenjanuary]

I think it is pretty cool. Saw it on Yahoo yesterday.

 

[Katzpur]

I saw this, too. I found it particularly interesting since these bear a striking resemblance to the metal plates Joseph Smith said he translated the Book of Mormon from. Of course, back in 1830, ancient writings on metal plates were unheard of and the concept was completely laughable. The assumption was that had any Middle-eastern people of that era recorded their secular or religious histories, prophesies or doctrines on anything, it would have been on papyrus or something of that sort. No metal plates had ever been discovered then, nor would any be for well over a hundred years. Since the 1950's, quite a few similar plates have been found. Obviously, to me as a Mormon, this particular discovery is fascinating.

 

[confusedius]

A bit suspicious, but I would love for it to be true...

 

[esmith]

You might want to take a look at the following: Fairly good information.

Could lead codices prove ‘the major discovery of Christian history’? - Yahoo! News

 

[Twilight Hue]

Lead is commonly found in shipwrecks; it was used on ships for weights, cannonballs, sheeting, and stripping. Lead is a stable metal in neutral or alkaline solutions that are free from oxidizing agents, especially if carbonates are present in the water (Pourbaix 1966:488-489). Basic lead carbonate (2PbCO3 · Pb[OH]2) and lead oxides (PbO and PbO2) are formed under most archaeological conditions where there is prolonged atmospheric exposure. The gray lead carbonate and lead oxide generally form a protective layer on the artifact that prevents further oxidation. Both these corrosion compounds are found on lead from a marine environment, but lead chloride (PbCl2), and especially lead sulfide (PbS) and lead sulfate (PbSO4), are also common.
- Excerp from Lead, tin, and Lead Alloys (tamu.edu)-

I would examine the books and surrounding demographics first starting with determinations made in regards to its chemistry.

 

[horizon_mj1]

Well considering that plates claimed to have been found by founders of other religions (yet no one can see them, study them or authenticate them) remain a mystery, I think this is an awesome find. Maybe finally we can put an end to arguments of rather or not Jesus of Nazareth was in fact crucified and what may have been going on the world at the time. From reading other similar findings, maybe it was a personal journal of one of the apostles or even just a witness.

 

[outhouse]

You might want to take a look at the following: Fairly good information.

Could lead codices prove ‘the major discovery of Christian history’? - Yahoo! News

good link

it will be interesting to see this unfold.

from what little I know im guessing it will be along the lines of 300AD

 

[Katzpur]

from what little I know im guessing it will be along the lines of 300AD

And if they are, it will prove that everything they contain is false, right?

 

[outhouse]

And if they are, it will prove that everything they contain is false, right?

not at all.

Im guessing at the date due to the content

 

[ellenjanuary]

...because of the size they may be considered "personal codecs," which were fashionable at that time.

 

[Zardoz]

Making large sheets of lead would also be much harder, expensive, and perhaps difficult to hide and/or transport. In any event, it's obvious this wasn't an april fools article. Bad timing on something like this!

 

[Skwim]

"Fake: Seventy metal books found in cave in Jordan labeled most important find in Christian history

. . . . A Jordanian Bedouin opened these plugs, and what he found inside might constitute extremely rare relics of early Christianity. The director of the Jordan’s Department of Antiquities, Ziad al-Saad, says the books might have been made by followers of Jesus in the few decades immediately following his crucifixion. “They will really match, and perhaps be more significant than, the Dead Sea Scrolls,” says Mr Saad. ”Maybe it will lead to further interpretation and authenticity checks of the material, but the initial information is very encouraging, and it seems that we are looking at a very important and significant discovery, maybe the most important discovery in the history of archaeology.”

However it turns out they are FAKE.

Peter Thonemann at Oxford has staked his career on the conclusion that the lead codices being discussed recently are forgeries executed within the last 50 years. The following is what he wrote to Elkington in an email after he was asked late last year to comment on the authenticity of the plates based on some photos:

A surprisingly easy task, as it turns out! The Greek text at the top of your photo no. 0556 reads: ΛΛΥΠΕΧΛΙΡΕΛΒΓΛΡΟΚΛΙΕΙΣΙΩΝ, followed by ΛΛΥΠΕ in mirror-writing.

This text corresponds to ΛΛΥΠΕ ΧΛΙΡΕ ΛΒΓΛΡ Ο ΚΛΙ ΕΙΣΙΩΝ, i.e. ἄλυπε χαῖρε, Ἀβγαρ ὁ καὶ Εἰσίων, followed by the word ἄλυπε again, in mirror writing. The text at the bottom of your photo no. 0532 is the first part of the same text again: ΛΥΠΕΧΛΙΡΕΛΒΓ, i.e. [ἄ]λυπε χαῖρε, Ἀβγ…

The text was incised by someone who did not know the Greek language, since he does not distinguish between the letters lambda and alpha: both are simply represented, in each of the texts, by the shape Λ. The text literally means ‘without grief, farewell! Abgar also known as Eision’. This text, in isolation, is meaningless.

source
​

 

[Twilight Hue]

"Fake: Seventy metal books found in cave in Jordan labeled most important find in Christian history

. . . . A Jordanian Bedouin opened these plugs, and what he found inside might constitute extremely rare relics of early Christianity. The director of the Jordan’s Department of Antiquities, Ziad al-Saad, says the books might have been made by followers of Jesus in the few decades immediately following his crucifixion. “They will really match, and perhaps be more significant than, the Dead Sea Scrolls,” says Mr Saad. ”Maybe it will lead to further interpretation and authenticity checks of the material, but the initial information is very encouraging, and it seems that we are looking at a very important and significant discovery, maybe the most important discovery in the history of archaeology.”

However it turns out they are FAKE.

Peter Thonemann at Oxford has staked his career on the conclusion that the lead codices being discussed recently are forgeries executed within the last 50 years. The following is what he wrote to Elkington in an email after he was asked late last year to comment on the authenticity of the plates based on some photos:

A surprisingly easy task, as it turns out! The Greek text at the top of your photo no. 0556 reads: ΛΛΥΠΕΧΛΙΡΕΛΒΓΛΡΟΚΛΙΕΙΣΙΩΝ, followed by ΛΛΥΠΕ in mirror-writing.

This text corresponds to ΛΛΥΠΕ ΧΛΙΡΕ ΛΒΓΛΡ Ο ΚΛΙ ΕΙΣΙΩΝ, i.e. ἄλυπε χαῖρε, Ἀβγαρ ὁ καὶ Εἰσίων, followed by the word ἄλυπε again, in mirror writing. The text at the bottom of your photo no. 0532 is the first part of the same text again: ΛΥΠΕΧΛΙΡΕΛΒΓ, i.e. [ἄ]λυπε χαῖρε, Ἀβγ…

The text was incised by someone who did not know the Greek language, since he does not distinguish between the letters lambda and alpha: both are simply represented, in each of the texts, by the shape Λ. The text literally means ‘without grief, farewell! Abgar also known as Eision’. This text, in isolation, is meaningless.

source
​

In spite of the the books debunking, I'm fairly sure this will propagate in some fashion.

 

[Zardoz]

I'm unconvinced that this can be proved linguistically. People were mostly illiterate, and Greek was not even the native language, so the errors could be the legitimate errors of a 1st century author.

I would put much more trust in the scientific study of the actual plates themselves.

The fact their whereabouts are a mystery is suspicious.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Other than linguistics issues, was it common or heard of during that time to produce literary works on lead? I was curious to the significance of the metal if any. Also in question is that of the commonality of metal books arranged in bounded leaf given the target time frame of 1 A.D of which to me seems a bit early for that yet although it might be at the end of the century considering Martial's work (Apophoreta) of which is said to be the first recorded instance of a codex in book form.

 

[Zardoz]

Lead is easy to work with, and I think it would be used were an 'indestructible' record was desired, being not flammable or susceptible to water damage.

There is a legend from the same time period that a 'treasure map' of the locations of the holy temple objects was also written on a metal plate.

 

[horizon_mj1]

What I found very interesting was what appeared to be the "tree of life" symbol. The codex seems to have runic writings (from what the article shows).

 

[croak]

I'm unconvinced that this can be proved linguistically. People were mostly illiterate, and Greek was not even the native language, so the errors could be the legitimate errors of a 1st century author.

I would put much more trust in the scientific study of the actual plates themselves.

The fact their whereabouts are a mystery is suspicious.

The source of that source elaborates further: Peter Thonemann on the Lead Codices « Daniel O. McClellan