Are there more than ONE plan of Salvation ?

[dan p]

Hi to all , and most will not agree to what will be written , but it is taken from the Bible .

#1 , In Eph 2:8 we are saved by Grace , for this is the Dispensati0on of the Grace of God , in Eph 3:1-9 . This should be a given by all ?

#2 , The other plan of salvation is found in Mark 16:15-18 , and He that believeth and is BAPTIZED shal be saved .

#3 , And there will be the Gentiles in the 1000 year reign of Christ and these Gentiles will be saved by being GRAFTED into the Olive Tree in Rom 11 . Today , there is NO grafting being done today , or the New Covenant in operation .

I see 3 ways that God will deal with man and this means that there is more than one gospel that will be preached and for 2000 years , the Gospel of the Grace of God has been preached .

The Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven will again be preached before the end of the Tribulation , in Matt 24:13 and 14 .

This , also means that Repentance and water baptism will be preached during the Tribulation , otherwise , why rebuild the Temple during the Tribulation ? dan p

 

[Ronald]

In Hebrew, there are three books, the Tzadikim, the wicked and the intermediates.
Sha'ul speaks of three type of people, Godly, ungodly and a form of godliness.
Kinda runs parallel, doesn't it?

 

[not yet now]

biblical salvation as i understand it
my main source other than the bible..the edgar cayce material

universal salvation as thru jesus
per tho the work of 30 incarnations
till he came in the fullness of time

Col 1:13 who did rescue us out of the authority of the darkness, and did translate us into the reign of the Son of His love,
Col 1:14 in whom we have the redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of the sins,
Col 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation,
Col 1:16 because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,
Col 1:17 and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted.
Col 1:18 And himself is the head of the body--the assembly--who is a beginning, a first-born out of the dead, that he might become in all things --himself--first,
Col 1:19 because in him it did please all the fulness to tabernacle,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile the all things to himself--having made peace through the blood of his cross--through him, whether the things upon the earth, whether the things in the heavens.
Col 1:21 And you--once being alienated, and enemies in the mind, in the evil works, yet now did he reconcile,
Col 1:22 in the body of his flesh through the death, to present you holy, and unblemished, and unblameable before himself,
Col 1:23 if also ye remain in the faith, being founded and settled, and not moved away from the hope of the good news, which ye heard, which was preached in all the creation that is under the heaven, of which I became--I Paul--a ministrant.

Joh 5:19 Jesus therefore responded and said to them, `Verily, verily, I say to you, The Son is not able to do anything of himself, if he may not see the Father doing anything; for whatever things He may do, these also the Son in like manner doth;
Joh 5:20 for the Father doth love the Son, and doth shew to him all things that He himself doth; and greater works than these He will shew him, that ye may wonder.
Joh 5:21 `For, as the Father doth raise the dead, and doth make alive, so also the Son doth make alive whom he willeth;
Joh 5:22 for neither doth the Father judge any one, but all the judgment He hath given to the Son,
Joh 5:23 that all may honour the Son according as they honour the Father; he who is not honouring the Son, doth not honour the Father who sent him.
Joh 5:24 `Verily, verily, I say to you--He who is hearing my word, and is believing Him who sent me, hath life age-during, and to judgment he doth not come, but hath passed out of the death to the life.
Joh 5:25 `Verily, verily, I say to you--There cometh an hour, and it now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and those having heard shall live;
Joh 5:26 for, as the Father hath life in himself, so He gave also to the Son to have life in himself,
Joh 5:27 and authority He gave him also to do judgment, because he is Son of Man.
Joh 5:28 `Wonder not at this, because there doth come an hour in which all those in the tombs shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 and they shall come forth; those who did the good things to a rising again of life, and those who practised the evil things to a rising again of judgment.
Joh 5:30 `I am not able of myself to do anything; according as I hear I judge, and my judgment is righteous, because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father who sent me.

BUT JESUS HAVING EARNED THE RIGHT TO BE GIVEN BY GOD THE FATHER
ALL JUDGMENT OF HUMANITY AS HIS SON AND THE FATHER JUDGES NOTHING EXCEPT BY WAY OF THE SON...
symbolically i think this could mean
that son as the individual conscious mind choices that a soul makes
is that by which one is judged...
but most had sinned before the creation of heaven and earth
plus those who were working the salvation plan for them
many of those went off course
Gen 6:1 And it cometh to pass that mankind have begun to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters have been born to them,
Gen 6:2 and sons of God see the daughters of men that they are fair, and they take to themselves women of all whom they have chosen.

Gen 6:3 And Jehovah saith, `My Spirit doth not strive in man--to the age; in their erring they are flesh:' and his days have been an hundred and twenty years.

Gen 6:4 The fallen ones were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when sons of God come in unto daughters of men, and they have borne to them--they are the heroes, who, from of old, are the men of name.
Gen 6:5 And Jehovah seeth that abundant is the wickedness of man in the earth, and every imagination of the thoughts of his heart only evil all the day;

Gen 6:6 and Jehovah repenteth that He hath made man in the earth, and He grieveth Himself--unto His heart.
Gen 6:7 And Jehovah saith, `I wipe away man whom I have prepared from off the face of the ground, from man unto beast, unto creeping thing, and unto fowl of the heavens, for I have repented that I have made them.'
PERHAPS AT OTHER POINTS TOO
MANY OF THOSE WORKING THE SALVATION PLAN WENT OFF COURCE
and an adjustment of the salvation plan needed to be made
thus the sin of adam that brought death to all humanity
was because all humanity was already in sin
...read chapter 5 of romans closely in the greek
....
but too in part god conceals his plan and glory...

anyways....
one who had sinned but caught himself before it got too bad
was an atlantean incarnation of jesus
and we are not in that adjustment of the salvation plan
where he first incarnated in a new kind of flesh body as adam
as the bible says..the first adam
but would come too as the last adam as jesus....

but now as to how does jesus judge humanity
probably quite different than most christians think
for one thing there is reincarnation
and the greek in the bible does not necessarily say the wicked in hell suffer eternally...
and i would think that many christians will be shocked in heaven
to see many many nonchristians...
now tho the kingdom of heaven is for those who have not yet perfected there oneness with the creator
but the kingdom of god
on the other hand is where go all those who are fully perfected saints...

no i do not reckon myself yet to me in that latter group

 

[not yet now]

the tribulation as
the dark night of a soul
when maturing from a baby christian or a soulish christian?
which all can choose before
the 1000 year rule of jesus....

during the tribulation might be the last opportunity to enter into the thousand year rule
for those who have not yet attained full maturity in the word....

during the millenial rule it will be easier for many to attain full maturity
but that is not to say it is guaranteed ...

ADDED A WEEE BIT LATER...
AH since maybe all dont get saved during the tribulation
or hmmm maybe they do but say they dont all get saved...

a couple of things...
they now could have a long difficult wait till
another salvation plan is put in place
or
alternatively
maybe...
now that there be so many newly perfected souls
perhaps such will aid in facilititating
saving many more
or all
more quickly....

 

[Katzpur]

Hi to all , and most will not agree to what will be written , but it is taken from the Bible .

#1 , In Eph 2:8 we are saved by Grace , for this is the Dispensati0on of the Grace of God , in Eph 3:1-9 . This should be a given by all ?

#2 , The other plan of salvation is found in Mark 16:15-18 , and He that believeth and is BAPTIZED shal be saved .

#3 , And there will be the Gentiles in the 1000 year reign of Christ and these Gentiles will be saved by being GRAFTED into the Olive Tree in Rom 11 . Today , there is NO grafting being done today , or the New Covenant in operation .

I see 3 ways that God will deal with man and this means that there is more than one gospel that will be preached and for 2000 years , the Gospel of the Grace of God has been preached .

The Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven will again be preached before the end of the Tribulation , in Matt 24:13 and 14 .

This , also means that Repentance and water baptism will be preached during the Tribulation , otherwise , why rebuild the Temple during the Tribulation ? dan p

Are you saying that each of your scriptural citations is referring to a different plan? I can't buy that.

 

[Green Kepi]

ONE…first, we must HEAR the word of God. In John 5:24-25, Jesus says,
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that hears my word, and believes him that sent me hath eternal life, and comes not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life."
Second, we learn that hearing produces FAITH.
Romans 10:17 says,
"Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God."
We cannot have faith if we do not know what the word of God has to say.
Third, we must REPENT.
In Luke 13:3, Jesus says,
"Unless you repent, you shall all likewise perish."
Again, in Acts 3:19 Peter says
"Repent you therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;"
Fourth, we must CONFESS our faith in Jesus Christ.
Romans 10:8-10 says,
But what saith it? The word is in you, even in your mouth, and in your heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved. For with the heart man believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Then, we must be BAPTIZED...
The person who is a repentant, confessing believer is a person ready to be baptized. To many in the world, baptism is a controversial issue. As simple as the process is and as often as it is commanded in the New Testament, many in the religious world just cannot accept it as the Bible teaches it.
The apostle Paul tells us in Galatians 3:26-27,
26. For you are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
God then adds us to the church (Acts 2:47). Not by vote or the decisions of men, but God alone adds us to His Church.
Finally, we must live our lives in faithful and loyal service to our Lord Jesus Christ as God has directed (Revelations 2:10).

 

[dan p]

Are you saying that each of your scriptural citations is referring to a different plan? I can't buy that.

Hi Katzpur , and yes I say that all 3 are different ,

How will you than , make them One ?

Do you have a verse ?
dan p

 

[dan p]

ONE…first, we mustHEAR the word of God. In John 5:24-25, Jesus says,
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that hears my word, and believes him that sent me hath eternal life, and comes not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life."
Second, we learn that hearing producesFAITH.
Romans 10:17 says,
"Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God."
We cannot have faith if we do not know what the word of God has to say.
Third, we must REPENT.
In Luke 13:3, Jesus says,
"Unless you repent, you shall all likewise perish."
Again, in Acts 3:19 Peter says
"Repent you therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;"
Fourth, we mustCONFESS our faith in Jesus Christ.
Romans 10:8-10 says,
But what saith it? The word is in you, even in your mouth, and in your heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved.For with the heart man believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Then, we must be BAPTIZED...
The person who is a repentant, confessing believer is a person ready to be baptized. To many in the world, baptism is a controversial issue. As simple as the process is and as often as it is commanded in the New Testament, many in the religious world just cannot accept it as the Bible teaches it.
The apostle Paul tells us in Galatians 3:26-27,
26. For you are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
God then adds us to the church (Acts 2:47). Not by vote or the decisions of men, but God alone adds us to His Church.
Finally, we must live our lives in faithful and loyal service to our Lord Jesus Christ as God has directed (Revelations 2:10).

Hi , and I believe that what you have written is a Fact , but it related to Israel only !!

How can use reconcile what you have witten with Eph 2:8 and Eph 4:5 ??

dan p

 

[Green Kepi]

Hi , and I believe that what you have written is a Fact , but it related to Israel only !!

How can use reconcile what you have witten with Eph 2:8 and Eph 4:5 ??

dan p

How can it only relate to Israel only? It is written to and for the early Christians. Ephs. 2:8 - means to me...baptism is one of the steps of how we get into that Grace (1 Peter 3:20-21). The water cleansed the earth...baptism does the same to the body. 1 Cor. 12:13 says baptism puts us into the Body. As for Ephs. 4:5 - is easy...in Matthew 3:11 - there are 3 different baptisms found. In Ephs. 4:5...some 30 years later, he says one baptism...this means the others had served their purposes. Now there's only one.

 

[horizon_mj1]

Why do people always look for an "easy" way to salvation. Maybe all of it is needed, or maybe God knows you well enough to make His own decision.

 

[Green Kepi]

Why do people always look for an "easy" way to salvation. Maybe all of it is needed, or maybe God knows you well enough to make His own decision.

Jesus told us...basically, human nature. The wide road is the easy one. The narrow one is too hard for many to stay on. Also...we want it our way. We think we know better and tend to forget that He said He'd light our path...we want everything lit and want our own light!

 

[Ronald]

Jesus told us...basically, human nature. The wide road is the easy one. The narrow one is too hard for many to stay on. Also...we want it our way. We think we know better and tend to forget that He said He'd light our path...we want everything lit and want our own light!

They are taught from a young age; "This Little Light of Mine"
Who needs the "Light of the world"? LOL

 

[dan p]

How can it only relate to Israel only? It is written to and for the early Christians. Ephs. 2:8 - means to me...baptism is one of the steps of how we get into that Grace (1 Peter 3:20-21). The water cleansed the earth...baptism does the same to the body. 1 Cor. 12:13 says baptism puts us into the Body. As for Ephs. 4:5 - is easy...in Matthew 3:11 - there are 3 different baptisms found. In Ephs. 4:5...some 30 years later, he says one baptism...this means the others had served their purposes. Now there's only one.

Hi Green Kepi , and how can 1 Cor 12:13 be water , since the BAPTIZER is the Holy Spirit ??

Are you saying that you felt the water ??

Give a verse for the so-called " early christians " , dan p

 

[Green Kepi]

Hi Green Kepi , and how can 1 Cor 12:13 be water , since the BAPTIZER is the Holy Spirit ??

Are you saying that you felt the water ??

Give a verse for the so-called " early christians " , dan p

First of all...the baptizer is not the Holy Spirit...Acts 1:5 tells us that we are "baptized with the Holy Spirit". When we come up out of the water, we receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).

How do we receive Him? By what Colossians 2:10-12 tells me. Baptism is called a work of God. Nothing is said of it being a work of man.

V. 12 - How do you get rid of sins? You need contact with the blood of Christ. You must get into the body of Christ...how do you get in? Thru baptism. Romans 6:3 - "Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death"?

We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life...and Galatians 3:27 - again...baptized into Christ.

The requested verse? Matthew 28:16-20. Known as the Great Commission...v.19 - "Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them..."

These are the Christians' Orders from Jesus: V.19 - "Go"...Do what? v.19 - make disciples...of who? v.19 - all nations. How? baptizing them. What kind of baptism, spirit or water? Water. Why? Because only God baptizes with the Spirit...those addressed could not (the Apostles could lay hands upon...pass on...but we cannot...the Gift of the Spirit, when they died, could not be passed on). It is who He addresses that are commanded to administer...

So...then...it has to be water baptism as they preached we find that all converts were at once baptized in water. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18).

 

[jtartar]

Hi to all , and most will not agree to what will be written , but it is taken from the Bible .

#1 , In Eph 2:8 we are saved by Grace , for this is the Dispensati0on of the Grace of God , in Eph 3:1-9 . This should be a given by all ?

#2 , The other plan of salvation is found in Mark 16:15-18 , and He that believeth and is BAPTIZED shal be saved .

#3 , And there will be the Gentiles in the 1000 year reign of Christ and these Gentiles will be saved by being GRAFTED into the Olive Tree in Rom 11 . Today , there is NO grafting being done today , or the New Covenant in operation .

I see 3 ways that God will deal with man and this means that there is more than one gospel that will be preached and for 2000 years , the Gospel of the Grace of God has been preached .

The Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven will again be preached before the end of the Tribulation , in Matt 24:13 and 14 .

This , also means that Repentance and water baptism will be preached during the Tribulation , otherwise , why rebuild the Temple during the Tribulation ? dan p

dan p,
You are making so many statements, but you are showing a complete lack of knowledge of how all these things you mention are put together.
If you are truely groping for truth, ask a question about one subject and I will be glad to answer you. The things you are stating are so much information it is impossible to answer in a few paragraphs.

About baptism. Baptism is a must for all who want to be Christians. Peter states that Baptism is saving us today, just as the ark saved Noah and his family in Noah's day, 1Pet 3:18-21. One of the last sayings that Jesus made was to tell his disciples to go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Matt 28:19,20. Of course it is not baptism that saves a person. A person who wants to become a Christian must first dedicate himself to God and then get baptized. Then we all must obey all that the Bible points out for a Christian, Matt 22:36-40, Heb 13:18, 2Tim 4:2-5, Matt 28:19,20, Rom 10:9,10.
Christians are living under a completely different dispensation, The Christian Dispensation, not the Mosaic Dispensation. The Mosaic Dispensation ended with the death of Jesus, the Christ. The New Covenant that Jesus instituted on the night before his death had to do with the Christian WAY.
Under the Mosaic Law Covenant all Jews were under that Covenant. Under the New Covenant all who want to be Christians must perform certain actions to publicly show that we are Christians, one being baptism. There are many actions that prove a person is a Christian. The Golden Rule is a very big sign, Matt 7:12, John 13:34,35, John 4:23,24, Gal 6:2. To remove from ourselves all unclean activities, 2Cor 7:1, Rom 12:1.
It is not easy to be a Christian. To become a Christian you are putting yourself in line for persecution, maybe even death, John 15:20, 2Tim 3:12, John 16:2. If you are not hated by the whole world, you are not really a true Christian, Matt 10:22, 24:9, Luke 6:22,23,26, Heb 12:8.

 

[dan p]

dan p,
You are making so many statements, but you are showing a complete lack of knowledge of how all these things you mention are put together.
If you are truely groping for truth, ask a question about one subject and I will be glad to answer you. The things you are stating are so much information it is impossible to answer in a few paragraphs.

About baptism. Baptism is a must for all who want to be Christians. Peter states that Baptism is saving us today, just as the ark saved Noah and his family in Noah's day, 1Pet 3:18-21. One of the last sayings that Jesus made was to tell his disciples to go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Matt 28:19,20. Of course it is not baptism that saves a person. A person who wants to become a Christian must first dedicate himself to God and then get baptized. Then we all must obey all that the Bible points out for a Christian, Matt 22:36-40, Heb 13:18, 2Tim 4:2-5, Matt 28:19,20, Rom 10:9,10.
Christians are living under a completely different dispensation, The Christian Dispensation, not the Mosaic Dispensation. The Mosaic Dispensation ended with the death of Jesus, the Christ. The New Covenant that Jesus instituted on the night before his death had to do with the Christian WAY.
Under the Mosaic Law Covenant all Jews were under that Covenant. Under the New Covenant all who want to be Christians must perform certain actions to publicly show that we are Christians, one being baptism. There are many actions that prove a person is a Christian. The Golden Rule is a very big sign, Matt 7:12, John 13:34,35, John 4:23,24, Gal 6:2. To remove from ourselves all unclean activities, 2Cor 7:1, Rom 12:1.
It is not easy to be a Christian. To become a Christian you are putting yourself in line for persecution, maybe even death, John 15:20, 2Tim 3:12, John 16:2. If you are not hated by the whole world, you are not really a true Christian, Matt 10:22, 24:9, Luke 6:22,23,26, Heb 12:8.

Hi , and if if want to debate just one post at a time , go for it , as it will be better for all .

If you want, can you compare Matt 28:19 vs Eph 4:5 ?? dan p

 

[led by the spirit]

Greetings.I know of only one way of salvation and that's Yehushua's way. Granted their are a few roads that will ultimately lead one to that Same "Way". Any other way will be in vain.So be it!

 

[led by the spirit]

Talk to me I will not bite.

 

[dan p]

First of all...the baptizer is not the Holy Spirit...Acts 1:5 tells us that we are "baptized with the Holy Spirit". When we come up out of the water, we receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).
.

Hi Green Kept , for the Original text does not say " baptized WITH THE Holy Spirit " for it reads " baptized with Holy Spirit " for the Greek Article is n0ot used in Acts 1:5 .

In 1 Cor 12 : 13 , the Baptizer is the Holy Spirit , so read again , for it says " For by one Spirit are we Baptized ." What have you been drinking ? just kidding , dan p

 

[dan p]

Greetings.I know of only one way of salvation and that's Yehushua's way. Granted their are a few roads that will ultimately lead one to that Same "Way". Any other way will be in vain.So be it!

Hi , and Acts 4:12 , says , Neither is there salvation in any other , for there is none other name under heaven given among men , whereby we must be saved .

Peter and the 12 kept the Law

Paul was given Grace , by which to be saved by , Eph 2:8 , dan p