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Deep Sleep and Consciousness

atanu

Member
Premium Member
Waking, dreaming, and sleeping are three universal states which pass on to one another. Since, for all schools of Vedanta, Pratyaksha is a valid proof for knowledge, the understanding of these three states, which are said to be 'faces of the Truth' and also 'three dream states of the dreamer', is considered important.

To begin withthe topic on 'Deep sleep and consciousness', the following link provides a background of Mandukya Upanishad, which deals concisely with the subject of the three states and the fourth state beyond these phenomenal states.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/vedanta-dir/109924-mandukya-upanishad-text.html
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atanu

Member
Premium Member
The citation on the state of deep sleep from different Upanishads follow, beginning with recapitualtion from the Mandukya Up. itself.

If only one could transcend the ignorance of sleep


Mandukya

V

That is the state of deep sleep wherein one asleep neither desires any object nor sees any dream. The third quarter is Prajna, whose sphere is deep sleep, in whom all experiences become unified, who is, verily, a mass of consciousness, who is full of bliss and experiences bliss and who is the door leading to the knowledge of dreaming and waking.

VI

He is the Lord of all. He is the knower of all. He is the inner controller. He is the source of all; for from him all beings originate and in him they finally disappear.


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Note: prajna is pra=pre and jna=knowledge. Thus prajna is the precusrsor to awareness or prajna is the precondition of awareness. The closest english equivalent of prajna is Wisdom.

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Satsangi

Active Member

atanu

Member
Premium Member
Friend Atanu,
Please proceed further........ cannot wait to read further what you have to say.
Regards,

Dear satsangi

Thank you for your post. Kindly bear with me for the delay. The material is not immediately at hand.

In the meanwhile let me note a bit on the nature of knowing, in the hope that it may raise a few questions in a few minds.

Shri Krishna says that what is day for a common man is a night for the yogi.Shri Krishna again says that the various objects of attractions are objects of senses alone and self is in no way connected and tainted by the objects.

Commonly we perceive what we perceive with the implicit assumption that our perceptions are all objective and we act on those perceptions. For example, in respect of a craving for a particulat taste, one may be under false impression that craving is inherent in the person himself/herself. But, only because of a small piece of tongue we taste food. Beyond the tongue, all food will have same taste. But the object of desire of a particular organ, the tongue in this case, colours the whole person, as if.

Similarly, without the sense of touch on the skin, we would be infinite -- the sense of touch on skin binds us within the bodily frame. Senses are called grahas. graha is that which binds. Of course this binding has a sweet purpose of enhancing the universal experiences yet the binding also becomes dukkha (pain), if not understood properly.

In this context, Hinduism calls the sensual knowledge as avidya and atmic knowledge (knowledge of self) as vidya.

One can never know oneself from without. The knowledge of Mandukya Up. is a valuable pointer to the knower/knowledge within.
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Satsangi

Active Member
The Shloka of BG says that the Yogi ("samyami"- one who has Indriyas under control) sees night (dark) in the vishayas which the common people pursue (are "awake") AND they are awake (in spirituality) where the common people see dark (ignorant).

You may find that the Shiva Sutras are also very important in the subject of deep sleep as a gateway to Turiya.

Regards,
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
The Seer, who is awake in the deep sleep state is Turiya itself.

Brihadaranyaka Upanishad


II-i-15: ------- Taking Gargya by the hand he rose. They came to a sleeping man. (Ajatasatru) addressed him by these names, Great, White-robed, radiant, Soma’. The man did not get up. (The King) pushed him with the hand till he awoke. Then he got up.

II-i-16: Ajatasatru said, ‘When this being full of consciousness (identified with the mind) was thus asleep, where was it, and whence did it thus come?’ Gargya did not know that.

II-i-17: Ajatasatru said, ‘When this being full of consciousness is thus asleep, it absorbs at the time the functions of the organs through its own consciousness, and lies in the Akasa (Supreme Self) that is in the heart. When this being absorbs them, it is called Svapiti. Then the nose is absorbed, the organ of speech is absorbed, the eye is absorbed, the ear is absorbed, and the mind is absorbed’.

II-i-18: When it thus remains in the dream state, these are its achievements: It then becomes an emperor, as it were, or a noble Brahmana, as it were, or attains states high or low, as it were. As an emperor, taking his citizens, moves about as he pleases in his own territory, so does it, thus taking the organs, move about as it pleases in its own body.

II-i-19: Again when it becomes fast asleep – when it does not know anything – it comes back along the seventy-two thousand nerves called Hita, which extend from the heart to the pericardium, and remains in the body. As a baby, or an emperor, or a noble Brahmana lives, having attained the acme of bliss, so does it remain.

II-i-20: As a spider moves along the thread (it produces), and as from a fire tiny sparks fly in all directions, so from this Self emanate all organs, all worlds, all gods and all beings. Its secret name (Upanishad) is ‘the Truth of Truth’. The vital force is truth, and It is the Truth of that.
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atanu

Member
Premium Member
The Seer, who is awake in the deep sleep state is Turiya itself.

Brihadaranyaka Upanishad

Rishi Yajnyavalka teaches King Janaka

IV-iii-10: There are no chariots, nor animals to be yoked to them, nor roads there, but he creates the chariots, the animals and the roads. There are no pleasures, joys, or delights there, but he creates the pleasures, joys and delights. There are no pools, tanks, or rivers there, but he creates the pools, tanks and rivers. For he is the agent.

IV-iii-11: Regarding this there are the following pithy verses: ‘The radiant infinite being (Purusha) who moves alone, puts the body aside in the dream state, and remaining awake himself and taking the shining functions of the organs with him, watches those that are asleep. Again he comes to the waking state.

IV-iii-12: ‘The radiant infinite being who is immortal and moves alone, preserves the unclean nest (the body) with the help of the vital force, and roams out of the nest. Himself immortal, he goes wherever he likes.

IV-iii-13: ‘In the dream world, the shining one, attaining higher and lower states, puts forth innumerable forms. He seems to be enjoying himself in the company of women, or laughing, or even seeing frightful things.

IV-iii-14: ‘All see his sport, but none sees him’. They say, ‘Do not wake him up suddenly’. If he does not find the right organ, the body becomes difficult to doctor. Others, however, say that the dream state of a man is nothing but the waking state, because he sees in dream only those things that he sees in the waking state. (This is wrong) In the dream state the man himself becomes the light. janka says ‘I give you a thousand (cows), sir. Please instruct me further about liberation’.

IV-iii-15: After enjoying himself and roaming, and merely seeing (the result of) good and evil (in dream), he (stays) in a state of profound sleep, and comes back in the inverse order to his former condition, the dream state. He is untouched by whatever he sees in that state, for this infinite being is unattached. ‘It is just so, Yajnavalkya. I give you a thousand (cows), sir. Please instruct me further about liberation itself.’

IV-iii-16: After enjoying himself and roaming in the dream state, and merely seeing (the results of) good and evil, he comes back in the inverse order to his former condition, the waking state. He is untouched by whatever he sees in that state, for this infinite being is unattached. ‘It is just so, Yajnavalkya. janka says "I give you a thousand (cows), sir. Please instruct me further about liberation itself.’

IV-iii-17: After enjoying himself and roaming in the waking state, and merely seeing (the result of) good and evil, he comes back in the inverse order to his former condition, the dream state (or that of profound sleep).

IV-iii-18: As a great fish swims alternately to both the banks (of a river), eastern and western, so does this infinite being move to both these states, the dream and waking states.

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atanu

Member
Premium Member
Brihadaranyaka Upanishad

Rishi Yajnyavalka teaches King Janaka


IV-iii-19: As a hawk or a falcon flying in the sky becomes tired, and stretching its wings, is bound for its nest, so does this infinite being run for this state, where, falling asleep, he craves no desire and sees no dream.

IV-iii-20: In him are those nerves called Hita, which are as fine as a hair split into a thousand parts, and filled with white, blue, brown, green and red (serums). (They are the seat of the subtle body, in which impressions are stored). Now when (he feels) as if he were being killed or overpowered, or being pursued by an elephant, or falling into a pit, (in short) conjures up at the time through ignorance whatever terrible things he has experienced in the waking state, (that is the dream state). And when (he becomes) a god, as it were, or a king, as it were, thinks, ‘This (universe) is myself, who am all’, that is his highest state.

IV-iii-21: That is his form – beyond desires, free from evils and fearless. As a man, fully embraced by his beloved wife, does not know anything at all, either external or internal, so does this infinite being (individual self), fully embraced by the Supreme Self, not know anything at all, either external or internal. That is his form – in which all objects of desire have been attained and are but the self, and which is free from desire and devoid of grief.

IV-iii-22: In this state a father is no father, a mother no mother, worlds no worlds, the gods no gods, the Vedas no Vedas. In this state a thief is no thief, the killer of a noble Brahmana no killer, a Chandala no Chandala, a Pulkasa no Pulkasa, a monk no monk, a hermit no hermit. (This form of his) is untouched by good work and untouched by evil work, for he is then beyond all the woes of his heart (intellect).

IV-iii-23: That it does not see in that state is because, though seeing then, it does not see; for the vision of the witness can never be lost, because it is imperishable. But there is not that second thing separate from it which it can see.

IV-iii-24: That it does not smell in that state is because, though smelling then, it does not smell; for the smeller’s function of smelling can never be lost, because it is imperishable. But there is not that second thing separate from it which it can smell.

IV-iii-25: That it does not taste in that state is because, though tasting then, it does not taste; for the taster’s function of tasting can never be lost, because it is imperishable. But there is not that second thing separate from it which it can taste.

IV-iii-26: That it does not speak in that state is because, though speaking then, it does not speak; for the speaker’s function of speaking can never be lost, because it is imperishable. But there is not that second thing separate from it which it can speak.

IV-iii-27: That it does not hear in that state is because, though hearing then, it does not hear; for the listener’s function of hearing can never be lost, because it is imperishable. But there is not that second thing separate from it which it can hear.

IV-iii-28: That it does not think in that state is because, though thinking then, it does not think; for the thinker’s function of thinking can never be lost, because it is imperishable. But there is not that second thing separate from it which it can think.

IV-iii-29: That it does not touch in that state is because, though touching then, it does not touch; for the toucher’s function of touching can never be lost, because it is imperishable. But there is not that second thing separate from it which it can touch.

IV-iii-30: That it does not know in that state is because, though knowing then, it does not know; for the knower’s function of knowing can never be lost, because it is imperishable. But there is not that second thing separate from it which it can know.

IV-iii-31: When there is something else, as it were, then one can see something, one can smell something, one can taste something, one can speak something, one can hear something, one can think something, one can touch something, or one can know something.

IV-iii-32: It becomes (transparent) like water, one, the witness, and without a second. This is the sphere ) (state) of Brahman, O Emperor. Thus did Yajnavalkya instruct Janaka: This is its supreme attainment, this is its supreme glory, this is its highest world, this is its supreme bliss. On a particle of this very bliss other beings live.

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atanu

Member
Premium Member
The knower who remains awake in deep sleep is filled with the light of Sun.

Chandogya Upanishad

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VIII-vi-3: Therefore when one is thus sound sleep, composed, serene so that he knows no dreams, then he enters into (the Akasa of the heart through) these arteries. Then no evil touches him for then he is filled with the light of the sun.

VIII-vi-4: Now, when one is thus reduced to a weakened condition, those who sit around him say, ‘Do you know me ? Do you know me ?’ As long as he has not departed from this body, so long he knows them.

VIII-vi-5: But when he thus departs from this body, then he proceeds upwards through those very rays, (if a knower) he surely goes up meditating on Om or (does not got up if he is not a knower). As long as it takes for the mind to travel, in that (short) time, he goes to the sun. That indeed is the door to the world (of Brahman), an entrance for the knowers and a shutting out for the ignorant.

VIII-vi-6: There is this verse about it: A hundred and one are the arteries of the heart; one of them leads up to the crown of the head. Passing upwards through that, one attains immortality, while the other arteries serve for departing in various other directions – yea, serve for departing.

VIII-vii-1: The Atman which is free from evil, free from old age, free from death, free from sorrow, free from hunger and thirst, whose desire is of the truth, whose resolve is of the truth, he should be sought, him one should desire to understand. He who has found out and who understands that Atman attains all the worlds and all the desires. Thus spoke Prajapati (Lord of beings).
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atanu

Member
Premium Member
The knower who realises that shadowless, bodiless, colourless, pure, Immutable being who is awake in dreamless sleep attains the supreme Immutable Itself.


Prasna Upanishad

IV-1: Then the grandson of Surya, born of the family of Garga, asked him, “O adorable sir, which are the organs that go to sleep in this person? Which keep awake in him? Which is the deity who experiences dream? To whom occurs this happiness? In whom do all get merged?

IV-2: To him he said, O Gargya, just as all the rays of the setting sun become unified in this orb of light, and they disperse from the sun as it rises up again, similarly all that becomes unified in the high deity, the mind. Hence this person does not then hear, does not see, does not smell, does not taste, does not touch, does not speak, does not grasp, does not enjoy, does not eject, does not move. People say, “He is sleeping.”
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IV-5: In this dream state this deity (i.e. the mind) experiences greatness. Whatever was seen, it sees again; whatever was heard, it hears again; whatever was perceived in the different places and directions, it experiences again and again; it perceives all by becoming all that was seen or not seen, heard or not heard, perceived or not perceived, and whatever is real or unreal.

IV-6: When that deity, (the mind), becomes overwhelmed by (solar) rays (called bile), then in this state the deity does not see dreams. Then, all that time, there occurs this kind of happiness in this body.

IV-7: To illustrate the point: As the birds, O good looking one, proceed towards the tree that provides lodging, just so all these proceed to the supreme Self.

IV-8: Earth and the rudiment of earth, water and the rudiment of water, fire and the rudiment of fire, space and the rudiment of space, the organ and object of vision, the organ and object of hearing, the organ and object of smell, the organ and object of taste, the organ and object of touch, the organ and content of speech, the hands and the object grasped, sex and enjoyment, the organ of excretion and the excreta, the feet and the space trodden, the mind and the content of thought, understanding and the content of understanding, egoism and the content of egoism, awareness and the content of awareness, the shining skin and the object revealed by that, Prana and all that has to be held by Prana.

IV-9: And this one is the seer, feeler, hearer, smeller, taster, thinker, ascertainer, doer – the Purusha (pervading the body and senses), that is a knower by nature. This becomes wholly established in the supreme, immutable Self.

IV-10: He who realises that shadowless, bodiless, colourless, pure, Immutable attains the supreme Immutable Itself. O amiable one, he, again, who realises, becomes omniscient and all. Illustrative of this there occurs this verse:

IV-11: O amiable one, he becomes all-knowing and enters into all, who knows that Immutable wherein merges the cognising Self – (the Purusha who is naturally a knower) – as also do the organs and the elements together with all the deities.

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zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend atanu,

Whatever you have mentioned - TRUE!
What next??
How are you going about IT??
Other hand; its all HERE-NOW!!

Love & rgds
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
Friend atanu,

Whatever you have mentioned - TRUE!
What next??
How are you going about IT??
Other hand; its all HERE-NOW!!

Love & rgds

Namaste Zenzero

I agree that realisation of total freedom is in HERE-NOW. But for most people, including me to a large extent, HERE-NOW is not peace but is made up of thousand problems. Shri Ramana Maharshi teaches "Be As You Are'. Yet, He teaches to incessantly enquire "Who Am I?"

As per Ramana again, it is not possible, except for the most ripe, to abide in HERE-NOW. For most people HERE-NOW is full of worries. Thus there are practices to wean away the mind from past and future and jnana (knowledge) way is considered the best. These posts may be seen in that light.

Thanks and Regards

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zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend atanu,

Do not take Ramana Maharsi to be any different from you, me or any other form. We are all parts of the same element and that is the *I* that needs to be understood.
When one considers *himself* to be a separate entity then the perception develops and the rest follows like a shadow which take lives after lives to get rid of.
Mind always lives either in the past or the future and never in the PRESENT [here-now] and to be here now is to be observe and then transcend that mind which is when the mind is thought free!

LOve & rgds
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
Friend atanu,

Do not take Ramana Maharsi to be any different from you, me or any other form. We are all parts of the same element and that is the *I* that needs to be understood.
When one considers *himself* to be a separate entity then the perception develops and the rest follows like a shadow which take lives after lives to get rid of.
Mind always lives either in the past or the future and never in the PRESENT [here-now] and to be here now is to be observe and then transcend that mind which is when the mind is thought free!

LOve & rgds

I agree my friend.

In physical sciences there is something called critical energy. Reactions happen on attaining that.

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zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend atanu,

In physical sciences there is something called critical energy. Reactions happen on attaining that.
Agree but if the mind follows that it always remains in the past or future.
Energy is inbuilt, every form has that as birth right.
Realising it is all that is required as thereafter the days follows the night and the night follows the day.
The more one flows the more it gains its own momentum, no outside force required as there is nothing as inside and outside; its THAT!

Love & rgds
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
Friend atanu,


Agree but if the mind follows that it always remains in the past or future.
Energy is inbuilt, every form has that as birth right.
Realising it is all that is required as thereafter the days follows the night and the night follows the day.
The more one flows the more it gains its own momentum, no outside force required as there is nothing as inside and outside; its THAT!

Love & rgds

I agree. What is manifest and what is not manifest both are manifestations of indivisible immortal -- known as Atman-Brahman to Hindus.

Now, we have some teachings:

Isha U.

13. Different indeed, they say, is the result (attained) by the worship of the Manifested and different indeed, they say, is the result (attained) by the worship of the Unmanifested. Thus have we heard from the wise who had explained it to us.
14. He who knows both the Unmanifested and the destructible (Hiranyagarbha) together, transcends death by the (worship of) the destructible and attains immortality by the (worship of ) the Unmanifested.
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No true Hindu teacher or follower will disobey the above. I do not know whether this will be appealing to you or not?
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zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend atanu,

Let it be put thus:
When there is no *I* then who is the worshiper?? [ of either the manifested or the unmanifested?? ]

Yes, it is difficult to communicate in words as only pointed towards.
Both [manifested and unmanifested] appear as duality but only together they are what TRUTH IS!

Love & rgds
n.b. am neither hindu nor teacher as to be anything one needs to be someone here am just a form at best a human form and so free to neither obey nor disobey except to reveal that consciousness that IS!
 
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