Does God create evil?

[rvalich]

This is in no way meant to be inflammatory, it is only my own logic and opinions. I do welcome other opinions on the matter.

The view held by Christian theology is that God did not create evil. You may argue this point using scripture to support either side. However that argument is but a symptom of a much larger problem which is choice and “free will”.

The concept among Christians is that sin, suffering, and evil deeds began with the “original sin”. The original sin was supposedly Adam and Eve’s disobedience, which is incorrect. The original sin started with Satan first, and then Adam and Eve second.

Using biblical logic we can see that God did not stop Satan from disobeying, he merely punishes or will punish Satan. God allowed Satan a choice. Satan in turn proposed that choice to Adam and Eve. Through their actions suffering and evil entered the world of man. The suffering and evil did not originate in reality with Adam and Eve. It originated when God allowed Satan a choice. Satan was supposedly the first creature to disobey. It is only in the world of humans that Adam and Eve were responsible for evil spreading, but Satan, using his option given by God, created evil.

Ultimately God allows choice or "free will".

The bible shows Satan created evil when he exercised his free will to oppose God. That choice that Satan took was offered to him by God. Both God and Satan are necessary ingredients in the creation of evil.

This is the most important concept and the origin of Gods involvement with the creation or allowance of evil.

If God created everything then he also created choice, or “free will”, and the ability to act upon that choice, as Satan demonstrated, which creates evil. He allows the capacity for disobedience and sin. Evil is a choice that was made by Satan given to him by God. Satan could never have made that choice if God hadn’t given it to him or allowed it in the same way God gave it to Adam and Eve. God must have created and allowed the ability for the two options prior to Satan’s choosing.

The problem is as follows. In a world with options, someone will take those options. It is in the free will and choices that exists good or bad. In order for the world to be without bad things, the option must be removed or blocked.

Mostly the objection to this idea is that people think without the option to disobey you aren’t truly free, and God of course wants us to be free. God does not want to force us to obey him. This is faulty logic simply because we are not, and have never been, as humans, truly free. I can not transform myself into a dinosaur. I am limited by the laws of physics, nature, and biology. We are not and have never been, as humans, truly free.

This is not a bad thing. Without the option of exercising evil you are no more limited in any capacity than you were before, in fact you would be better off without that option. You have unlimited other options, why would the removal of the ability to choose evil be equated to slavery? Do we truly need the choice to produce evil things for us to be “free”?

God is very busy in punishing the wicked. Punishment is a negative thing full of sorrow, guilt, and suffering. God participates in punishment, pain, and suffering. He also continues the evil by allowing the choice for disobedience in turn causing him to create Hell, destroy cities, and bring death as righteous punishment.

My real point is not to challenge the authenticity of the Christian God's existence, but to point to the idea that people do not know the God they choose to worship. Also that the bible is full of problematic theologies and concepts which create these imbalances in the image we create of God.

The short answer to the question on both counts is yes. Through choice God creates evil. If God created everything, then anything that is possible, or anything that exists, must have been created by God.

 

[outhouse]

welcome to the forums

god did not create evil because in my opinion he is nothing more then mans imagination for what he does not know.

 

[micrurus]

the terms "good" and "evil" can only coexist so if god created good then he also created evil.

 

[Sunstone]

The god of the bible is certainly capable of great evil. As Dawkins somewhere points out, he is among the most disgusting creatures in all of the world's literature:

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."

 

[Skwim]

Ultimately God allows choice or "free will".

No such animal.

 

[Civil Shephard]

ravlich,

I think your thoughts cover all bases pretty well and your scriptural knowledge on this issue is accurate.

I can only say that Isaiah 45 (where our Creator confesses to creating evil) leads me to believe that choice or free will is part of the original being or awareness of I AM. Knowing this leads some to say Christian cliche' that "God is Good all the Time"... a statement I've always had a bit of a problem with.

To me... it was necessary for I AM to allow a universe full of I AM's original being to be given a choice not just of good and evil but of rejecting or accepting I AM as creator and therefore ruler of all that is, was and shall be. I agree that we, you and I are not free in all ways but I think we are free to accept the fact that our Creator and his Universe are where we live and that we, like our Creator I AM are capable of accepting or rejecting good. Simply put... I believe we are able to get as mad at God as we want for putting us in this universal scenario but we must ultimately accept the fact that God is God and we are not.

So the question to me is our Creator God good or evil? And my choice is to call I AM good and though I'm not always thankful for being created in the first place I do believe that the gift of grace and truth through Jesus Christ are both and explanation and an apology for this wonderous and horrible thing we call our lives.

 

[no-body]

When I try to untangle the logic of the Christian God I picture a dad holding his sons fist and smacking him in the face with it whenever he does anything disobedient "why are you hitting yourself? why are you hitting yourself?"

 

[outhouse]

The god of the bible is certainly capable of great evil. As Dawkins somewhere points out, he is among the most disgusting creatures in all of the world's literature:

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."

this is true.

and yet we are supposed to accept this childish god as our creator and mentor.

no wonder humanity is so jacked up at this point and time.

 

[ellenjanuary]

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth...

If one allows for such a statement to be true; the one must allow, at the very least, god enabling the creation of evil. This is only a problem with those who consider god to be omni, yet good. I mean, how simple can a contradiction be?

In my mind, it is much better to come to an understanding of evil rather than blame it on a convenient scapegoat such as the Devil. Every consideration I have heard of evil is expressible in terms of a corruption of love, short-sightedness, and insanity.

 

[Riverwolf]

No. Our minds are the direct creators of evil, for it's a term and concept used to describe a situation, person, or act that is extremely painful, unpleasant, harmful, etc. Therefore, it doesn't really exist.

 

[openyourmind]

To answer this question I would need to know how one defines "evil". Do you define evil as sin? Do you seperate the two and say that evil is the product of sin?

 

[Rick B]

Freewill must be understood as the ability to choose, without compulsion, within one's nature. After the fall, mankind's nature is a sinful nature and therefore unable to choose that which is pleasing to God because of unatoned-for-sin. God, Himself, cannot choose to sin for He is impeccable in His nature or choose to act in any way outside of or contrary to His nature. Neither can we. Futhermore God did not just allow sin/evil to enter creation but decreed it, making it certain. Understand though, that He also decreed the means as well. Adam and Eve, as well as Satan with all other angels, were originally created good but mutable. Satan, the other fallen angels and also the faithful angels natures were fixed so that there could be no change. All freely make choices according to their fixed nature. In eternity past the triune God chose to effect His redemptive plan for fallen mankind only. What unsurpassing condescension. God provided that man's nature would remain naturally immutable(fixed) like the angels but only so when and if changed by Him through SUPERNATURAL regeneration. It is through monergistic regeneration that man is freely given repentance, faith, a renewed mind and new heart, and a will set free from its slavery to sin. While still retaining our old sinful nature, we are given another, Christ-like nature so that we can now willingly obey God to some degree in the power of the Holy Spirit. As we pursue pleasing Him, as we grow more mature in the Christian faith, we become more like Christ by grace through faith.(Romans 6-7) "You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free...So if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed."(John 8:32,36) Two further points. One grave mistake is to interpret anything in the bible as if we should "create God in our image". Another is that we must interpret and understand that the bible is clear and Gods nature is such that "Let no one say when he is tempted(to do evil), ' I am being tempted by God'; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone(with evil). But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust(evil desire). Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow."(James 1:13-17) God is not the author or first cause or creator of evil. While he predetermined that it would occur, He also predetermined the means by which it would be accomplished...the instrument of Satan's free self-will introducing evil into the realm of human history, freely embraced by Adam and Eve. For the purpose of more fully demonstrating/revealing His goodness by means of evil's black background.

 

[Twig pentagram]

If God created everything than God created evil.

 

[AntEmpire]

if god created everything, and if there is evil, god is the one responsible for it existing.

 

[islam means peace]

Yes, ALLAH (GOD) is the creater of all the things,ALLAH created good and bad, but to test person ALLAH teaches ut to do good thing and stop from bad things.

 

[cottage]

To answer this question I would need to know how one defines "evil". Do you define evil as sin? Do you seperate the two and say that evil is the product of sin?

Evil is suffering: no suffering then no evil. And if God the Creator of all things exists, then 'God created evil' must be true.

 

[chinu]

Does God create evil?
The short answer to the question on both counts is yes. Through choice God creates evil. If God created everything, then anything that is possible, or anything that exists, must have been created by God.

Regarding this post, I just want to share "One story" which i have readed on some other forum posted by Yajvan ji, I really like this short story and i hope you all will like this so i am pasting this here.

STORY:

A professor of a university challenged his students with this question. "Did God create everything that exists?" A student answered bravely, "Yes, he did". The professor then asked, "If God created everything, then he created evil. Since evil exists (as noticed by our own actions), so God is evil.

The student couldn't respond to that statement causing the professor to conclude that he had "proved" that "belief in God" was a fairy tale, and therefore worthless.

Another student raised his hand and asked the professor, "May I pose a question? " . Of course" answered the professor.
The young student stood up and asked : "Professor does Cold exist?"
The professor answered, "What kind of question is that? Of course the cold exists... haven't you ever been cold?"

The young student answered, "In fact sir, Cold does not exist. According to the laws of Physics, what we consider cold, in fact is the absence of heat. Anything is able to be studied as long as it transmits energy (heat). Absolute Zero is the total absence of heat, but cold does not exist. What we have done is create a term to describe how we feel if we don't have body heat or we are not hot."
"And, does Dark exist?", he continued.
The professor answered "Of course". This time the student responded, "Again you're wrong, Sir. Darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in fact simply the absence of light.
Light can be studied, darkness can not. Darkness cannot be broken down. A simple ray of light tears the darkness and illuminates the surface where the light beam finishes. Dark is a term that we humans have created to describe what happens when there's lack of light."

Finally, the student asked the professor,
"Sir, does evil exist?"
The professor replied, "Of course it exists, as I mentioned at the beginning, we see violations, crimes and violence anywhere in the world, and those things are evil."

The student responded, "Sir, Evil does not exist. Just as in the previous cases, Evil is a term which man has created to describe the result of the absence of God's presence in the hearts of man."
After this, the professor bowed down his head, and didn't answer back.

As the story goes, the young man's name was Albert Einstein


_/\_Chinu.

 

[cottage]

Regarding this post, I just want to share "One story" which i have readed on some other forum posted by Yajvan ji, I really like this short story and i hope you all will like this so i am pasting this here.

STORY:

A professor of a university challenged his students with this question. "Did God create everything that exists?" A student answered bravely, "Yes, he did". The professor then asked, "If God created everything, then he created evil. Since evil exists (as noticed by our own actions), so God is evil.

The student couldn't respond to that statement causing the professor to conclude that he had "proved" that "belief in God" was a fairy tale, and therefore worthless.

Another student raised his hand and asked the professor, "May I pose a question? " . Of course" answered the professor.
The young student stood up and asked : "Professor does Cold exist?"
The professor answered, "What kind of question is that? Of course the cold exists... haven't you ever been cold?"

The young student answered, "In fact sir, Cold does not exist. According to the laws of Physics, what we consider cold, in fact is the absence of heat. Anything is able to be studied as long as it transmits energy (heat). Absolute Zero is the total absence of heat, but cold does not exist. What we have done is create a term to describe how we feel if we don't have body heat or we are not hot."
"And, does Dark exist?", he continued.
The professor answered "Of course". This time the student responded, "Again you're wrong, Sir. Darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in fact simply the absence of light.
Light can be studied, darkness can not. Darkness cannot be broken down. A simple ray of light tears the darkness and illuminates the surface where the light beam finishes. Dark is a term that we humans have created to describe what happens when there's lack of light."

Finally, the student asked the professor,
"Sir, does evil exist?"
The professor replied, "Of course it exists, as I mentioned at the beginning, we see violations, crimes and violence anywhere in the world, and those things are evil."

The student responded, "Sir, Evil does not exist. Just as in the previous cases, Evil is a term which man has created to describe the result of the absence of God's presence in the hearts of man."
After this, the professor bowed down his head, and didn't answer back.

As the story goes, the young man's name was Albert Einstein


_/\_Chinu.

This old chestnut arises every so often and the opportunity to respond to it is always welcome.


If for example we dispense with light, that is to say not just the term but the state itself, we are left with 'dark' the condition, but not the term, which is now redundant. Similarly if we annihilate evil, the condition and behaviour that we knew previously as 'good' will simply continue as before, unaffected and now without the need for any distinction.

So evil doesn't depend upon the existence of 'good' in order to give it meaning. Murder is evil, but not murder is simply the former possibility not enacted: there isn't a state or condition of not murder. However, the term 'good' is dependent upon evil. Conceive of the non-existence of evil. What would the state of 'goodness' comprise? How could one be good when it is impossible to be bad? And now if we reverse the situation, where we have only an evil existence, we find we don't need the correlative 'good' to identify this negative state. In sum, the state of evil and badness, eg hurt, injury, death etc, exists as a proper state, but 'goodness' is merely a descriptive term for the theoretical absence of that negative state; it is not a state in itself. Evil is thus a real , existent state.

 

[chinu]

This old chestnut arises every so often and the opportunity to respond to it is always welcome.
If for example we dispense with light, that is to say not just the term but the state itself, we are left with 'dark' the condition, but not the term, which is now redundant. Similarly if we annihilate evil, the condition and behaviour that we knew previously as 'good' will simply continue as before, unaffected and now without the need for any distinction.
So evil doesn't depend upon the existence of 'good' in order to give it meaning. Murder is evil, but not murder is simply the former possibility not enacted: there isn't a state or condition of not murder. However, the term 'good' is dependent upon evil. Conceive of the non-existence of evil. What would the state of 'goodness' comprise? How could one be good when it is impossible to be bad? And now if we reverse the situation, where we have only an evil existence, we find we don't need the correlative 'good' to identify this negative state. In sum, the state of evil and badness, eg hurt, injury, death etc, exists as a proper state, but 'goodness' is merely a descriptive term for the theoretical absence of that negative state; it is not a state in itself. Evil is thus a real , existent state.

Cottage ji, I am talking about "God" not "Good".

_/\_Chinu.

 

[cottage]

Cottage ji, I am talking about "God" not "Good".

_/\_Chinu.

With respect you were quoting physics and the relationship between ideas. I have shown that the argument you used was flawed.