Creationist - what is your understanding of TOE?

[Big_TJ]

A poster once post this:

If you can show the world a monkey that turns into a human being in lab in real time and conditions then you can call that a fact but as you cant it will always be a theory NOT A FACT.:thud:

I see this as a blatant misunderstanding of the theory of evolution, and taught it would be good for creationist to let us know what their understanding of the theory of evolution. I think this may be value added, since others ("evolutionists") may be able to point out any misconceptions. So, creationists, what is your understanding of the theory of evolution (and of evolution itself)?

 

[TJ73]

I understand it to be the construct in which God has created. A determined amount of material and outcomes. Life building up to its current form, mailable to ride on the current of changing conditions. A creation with potentials. There are numerous ways the conditions can change, movement of the earths plates, other environmental changes and a means of life adapting to those changes, the means(DNA) being part of the design by the Creator.

 

[outhouse]

I understand it to be the construct in which God has created. A determined amount of material and outcomes. Life building up to its current form, mailable to ride on the current of changing conditions. A creation with potentials. There are numerous ways the conditions can change, movement of the earths plates, other environmental changes and a means of life adapting to those changes, the means(DNA) being part of the design by the Creator.

you dont feel this is your imagination twisting nature to meet your creation needs???

 

[TJ73]

you dont feel this is your imagination twisting nature to meet your creation needs???

Could be. But isn't theory itself reasoned imagination?

 

[outhouse]

Could be. But isn't theory itself reasoned imagination?

No religion is.

science is about observed facts.

evolution is fact as gravity.

 

[TJ73]

No religion is.

science is about observed facts.

evolution is fact as gravity.

But theory is not fact. We use reason to imagine how things might be and apply science to try to prove or disprove. Have not all great theories started in the mind of scientists? The take the known facts and think ( or imagine) how it could tie into the things we don;t yet know and we continue to look for proof. Once the proof is established we THEN have facts.

 

[outhouse]

The take the known facts and think ( or imagine)

sorry bud, you need to learn what a scientific theory is before you misjudge it.

first evolution is fact get used to it, it is fact and only advancing. join the real world leave the myths behind.

keep your religion but realize ancient man wrote it and made mistakes when he did.

Have not all great theories started in the mind of scientists?

this is your lack of education in the field. its not considered a theory until its a certainty.

gravity is a theory, when you jump up what happens, the same thing if you throw a stone.

evolution is as solid as gravity

 

[Flatland]

The creationist's understanding of Evolution is non-existent. Kinda like their fairy tale.

 

[TJ73]

sorry bud, you need to learn what a scientific theory is before you misjudge it.

first evolution is fact get used to it, it is fact and only advancing. join the real world leave the myths behind.

keep your religion but realize ancient man wrote it and made mistakes when he did.



this is your lack of education in the field. its not considered a theory until its a certainty.

gravity is a theory, when you jump up what happens, the same thing if you throw a stone.

evolution is as solid as gravity

I am certainly not well educated in this respect. I took a moment to look it up. I stand corrected. But I have never disputed evolution as fact and theory. It is observable and I don't think I understand what the debate is? What I attribute to a Creator doesn't take away any of the facts.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I've never met anyone opposed to evolutionary theory who has actually demonstrated even a basic understanding of what it is.

 

[Big_TJ]

The creationist's understanding of Evolution is non-existent. Kinda like their fairy tale.

So I guess you cannot argue against it, then?

 

[Big_TJ]

I've never met anyone opposed to evolutionary theory who has actually demonstrated even a basic understanding of what it is.

This is EXACTLY what this thread will prove!

 

[Big_TJ]

But theory is not fact. We use reason to imagine how things might be and apply science to try to prove or disprove. Have not all great theories started in the mind of scientists? The take the known facts and think ( or imagine) how it could tie into the things we don;t yet know and we continue to look for proof. Once the proof is established we THEN have facts.

umm . . . should I start a thread marked "Creationist, what is your understanding of the "Scientific Method"?

 

[outhouse]

umm . . . should I start a thread marked "Creationist, what is your understanding of the "Scientific Method"?

you will have a blank and empty thread.

I have not witnesssed one with a clue

 

[Breathe]

But theory is not fact.

Ahhh, but as 9-10ths (I think it was him, apologies if not!) said before:

Scientific theory = Layman's fact
Scientific hypothesis = Layman's theory


Gravity and relativity are still "theories"--even though one does not see much argument against gravity.





To creationists, all I suppose I can say is [added so TJ73 doesn't think I'm singling her out ]:


There is plenty of evidence for evolution out there, and I've seen some of them for myself (not that I have ever denied evolution, although I did Poe once. ) - check out the "London underground mosquito", search for "culex pipiens molestus evolve" or something.

Link here.

A major problem that many who do not understand evolution have with it is simply that they misunderstand what it is and how it happens. Some people, for example, seem to have the idea that one day a lizard gives birth to an egg from which comes a chicken, or a toad turns into a human and stuff, but this is not it at all.


I would suggest to any "anti-evolutionist" to read up on what it actually is.

Evolution is a Fact and a Theory
Introduction to Evolutionary Biology
Five Major Misconceptions about Evolution

Another major problem is many creationists seem to think evolution and God have to be at odds. This is not true: I believe in God, and I accept evolution as fact - and that's not the theistic evolution either some believe in, either. No "guided evolution" for me, just, pure chaos, and I don't think that affects my spirituality one iota.



Just my two cents.

 

[LuisDantas]

The creationist's understanding of Evolution is non-existent. Kinda like their fairy tale.

That is often enough true, but it can change. That is why this thread exists, after all.

 

[LuisDantas]

I understand it to be the construct in which God has created. A determined amount of material and outcomes. Life building up to its current form, mailable to ride on the current of changing conditions. A creation with potentials. There are numerous ways the conditions can change, movement of the earths plates, other environmental changes and a means of life adapting to those changes, the means(DNA) being part of the design by the Creator.

Sorry, but I'm not certain I understood you. Are you saying that you accept the ToE, but don't believe that life wasn't created by the Will of God?

 

[TJ73]

Sorry, but I'm not certain I understood you. Are you saying that you accept the ToE, but don't believe that life wasn't created by the Will of God?

Yes I do. I know the fact that I believe in God is ridiculous to some of you. No problem, but please don't discount my intelligence. I wasn't arguing that TOE has not been proven. It is obvious and I am not under the naive impression that it means monkey will eventually become people. I am aware of the simultaneous existence of other hominids along with homo sapiens. I know we were not Neanderthals at one time. I am fully able to grasp the rather simple and elegant process of natural selection. I just happen to believe that this process had an intelligent originator, one that caste out the fundamental elements of the process and is aware of all potentials.

 

[LuisDantas]

Yes I do. I know the fact that I believe in God is ridiculous to some of you.

Not to me, for whatever it is worth. It is with some conceptions of what God is like and how his Will supposed acts that I have a problem.

No problem, but please don't discount my intelligence. I wasn't arguing that TOE has not been proven. It is obvious and I am not under the naive impression that it means monkey will eventually become people. I am aware of the simultaneous existence of other hominids along with homo sapiens. I know we were not Neanderthals at one time. I am fully able to grasp the rather simple and elegant process of natural selection. I just happen to believe that this process had an intelligent originator, one that caste out the fundamental elements of the process and is aware of all potentials.

Then I am glad that I asked. Seems that some people may have jumped the gun while answering you. Then again, I don't think you are part of the target group that this thread was created for.

 

[TJ73]

thank you. I appreciate your understanding of what I said. What group is the target?