james2ko
Well-Known Member
this is why I tried to offer the reasoning which suggests that Rev20:5 is not about being 'resurrected' after the 1,000 years
You are attempting to reason with me by grossly misconstruing a literal scripture into a symbolic one by inserting a phrase that isn't there? Sorry, I was born at night but not last night..
but they are 'coming to life' in a different sense. You are reading it literally, yet the scriptures speak about life and death figuratively in many cases. think about the verses from Ephesians and Colossians where Paul says that christians were once 'dead' but God made them 'alive' You surely know that this is figurative. Paul was speaking to living people. Even Jesus spoke about some people who refused to follow him as being 'dead'.
So does this mean we should take the verses referring to the resurrection in Rev 20 the same way? Of course not...
I know exactly what these verses mean. They are figures of speech describing a sinner's spiritually "dead" state prior to their conversion. Jesus used this figure of speech in Mat 8:22 and Luk 9:60 when He told one of His disciples to "let the dead bury the dead". These are clearly defined as figures of speech and have no bearing on literal life, death, or the resurrection.
Also in Rev 20, the context is that John is speaking of the first resurrection. The first resurrection is for the Chosen ones who are resurrected to 'life' and will rule with Christ in heaven.
Scritpture indicates Christ will descend from the clouds of heaven (1 Th 4:16) The Saints will meet Christ in the air (1 th 4:17) but other verses indicated they will immediately descend and rule from the earth!
Zec 14:4 "And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives..." If the Saints, immediately following their resurrection, meet Christ in the air and 1Th 4:17 states they will "always be with the Lord", then the implication is clearly they also descended and stood with Him on the Mount of Olives!
Obadiah 1:21 confirms this (Oba 1:15 sets the context to the return of Christ):
"Then saviors shall come to Mount Zion To judge the mountains of Esau, And the kingdom shall be the LORD's.
This is in complete harmony with Jud 1:14-15 and Psa 149:5-9:
Jud 1:14-15 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."
Psa 149:5-9* Let the saints be joyful in glory; Let them sing aloud on their beds. 6* Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, And a two-edged sword in their hand, 7* To execute vengeance on the nations, And punishments on the peoples; 8* To bind their kings with chains, And their nobles with fetters of iron; 9 To execute on them the written judgment This honor have all His saints. Praise the LORD!
Look at your bible and notice that the phrase is in brackets ("and the rest of the dead did not come to life until after the 1,000 years ended") The reason why translators put this phrase in brackets is because they are not linked to those being spoken of in Rev 20. Here it is:
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them, and power of judging was given them. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had worshiped neither the wild beast nor its image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years"
I am well aware of the parenthetical statement in Rev 20:5. It merely gives the impression that verse 5 is referring to the rest of the dead being part of the first resurrection. Which we know is not the case.
You see, the first resurrection are for those who will rule with Christ in heaven. The REST OF THE DEAD will not be going to rule in heaven with Christ. These take part in the 2nd resurrection - the earthly resurrection.
And neither are those from the first resurrection.
They will be the ones such as the criminal who Jesus said 'you will be with me in paradise' and the faithful men of old such as Abel, Abraham, Jacob etc and anyone you may personally know who have died ...your great grandparents, and their parents.... and people from the first world war who died at that time... all those millions of people who died in concentration camps. They are all 'the rest of the dead' who will receive an earthly resurrection
And I agree. But scripture plainly indicates, Not "until" the 1,000 years were finished! (Rev 20:5)
John tells us what happens:
Revelation 20:7-9a.Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, ... to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they advanced over the breadth of the earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and devoured them. 10 And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet [already were]; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. That will be the final battle and many will choose to rebel but will be destroyed along with Satan. So to be a faithful perfect human at time will mean truly 'coming to life' forever. They will live eternally on earth as Psalms says:
Satan will be let loose to deceive the descendants of the inhabitants who survived into the start of the millenium! Not to test those that come or came up in the 2nd resurrection. The 2nd resurrection will not occur until after the 1,000 years and Satan is put away! if you read Rev 20 in chronological order as God intended, the correct interpretation becomes quite clear.
God wants to ensure, as scripture indicates, that as many people as possible receive salvation. He will make sure the conditions are favorable for this to occur.
"The righteous will possess the earth and they will reside forever upon it"
This could also refer to those in the first resurrection. As so many verses indicate.
Do you see why it cannot be possible for the resurrection to occur after the 1,000 years?
The Saints will rule on the earth. As the scriptures above clearly indicate. Since your premise is predicated on a perceived symbolic interpretation of Rev 20:5, the rest of your interpretation will be in error.
As I said, the bible is to be interpreted literally, until proven otherwise. And unfortunately, you have not proven to me in a logical, literal, or biblical manner otherwise. If anything, you have proven to me the JW's have the resurrection doctrine more in error than I originally thought. Sorry..