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Usually when remarkable claims are being made, I expect more material than a comment that it was read in an Islamic forum.Hi,
I read in Islamic forum that the holy house which mentioned in the Genesis is exactly the Kaaba in Mecca.
Any explanation will be appreciated.
Thanks.
I agree with you, and I would post the text which I read, but it is not in English language.Usually when remarkable claims are being made, I expect more material than a comment that it was read in an Islamic forum.
There are some sites in English about this subject both from the Islamic view and a counter view. they will easily come up on a search.I agree with you, and I would post the text which I read, but it is not in English language.
I understand that it may be in various Islamic traditions. however that certainly does not shed light on the Biblical book of Genesis and the claim that the Kaaba is mentioned in it.Muslims say Allah sent the Kaaba down with Adam, even I've read in some Islamic sources that Allah built the Kaaba before he creates Earth.
OK Eihab, lets try and keep it in order. you were talking about the Book of Genesis. you do realise that Psalms is a different book in the Bible, right?Yes, I've found it.
The Bible mentions about the valley of Baca in connection with the pilgrimage. Below is the quote from Psalms 84 (NIV):
1 How lovely is your dwelling place, O LORD Almighty!
2 My soul yearns, even faints, for the courts of the LORD; my heart and my flesh cry out for the living God.
3 Even the sparrow has found a home, and the swallow a nest for herself, where she may have her young-- a place near your altar, O LORD Almighty, my King and my God.
4 Blessed are those who dwell in your house; they are ever praising you.
5 Blessed are those whose strength is in you, who have set their hearts on pilgrimage.
6 As they pass through the Valley of Baca, they make it a place of springs; the autumn rains also cover it with pools.
7 They go from strength to strength, till each appears before God in Zion.
8 Hear my prayer, O LORD God Almighty; listen to me, O God of Jacob.
9 Look upon our shield, O God; look with favor on your anointed one.
10 Better is one day in your courts than a thousand elsewhere; I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked.
11 For the LORD God is a sun and shield; the LORD bestows favor and honor; no good thing does he withhold from those whose walk is blameless.
12 O LORD Almighty, blessed is the man who trusts in you.
Wrong.you do realise that Psalms is a different book in the Bible, right?
.
If you want to read more, this is the link.Mecca, Bacca and Paran:
Let me paste for you the following Verses from the Bible and the Noble Quran:
"Blessed is the man whose strength is in thee; in whose heart are the ways of them. Who passing through the valley of Baca make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools. (From the NIV Bible, Psalms 84:5-6)"
"The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka full of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings: In it are signs manifest; (for example) the Station of Abraham; whoever enters it attains security; pilgrimage thereto is a duty men owe to Allah those who can afford the journey; but if any deny faith Allah stands not in need of any of his creatures. (The Noble Quran, 3:96-97)"
"And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is. Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation. And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink. And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer. And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt. (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 21:17-21)"
More Verses on Paran:
"Then the Israelites set out from the Desert of Sinai and traveled from place to place until the cloud came to rest in the Desert of Paran. (From the NIV Bible, Numbers 10:12)" Here the desert of Paran means the region of Paran, which would be either at or near Mecca.
"After that, the people left Hazeroth and encamped in the Desert of Paran. (From the NIV Bible, Numbers 12:16)" Here the desert of Paran means the region of Paran, which would be either at or near Mecca.
"So at the LORD's command Moses sent them out from the Desert of Paran. All of them were leaders of the Israelites. (From the NIV Bible, Numbers 13:3)"
"These are the words Moses spoke to all Israel in the desert east of the Jordan--that is, in the Arabah--opposite Suph, between Paran and Tophel, Laban, Hazeroth and Dizahab. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 1:1)"
Kaabah (the cube black building in Mecca) and Mecca:
Atharva Veda X, 2, Mantras 28 and 31
28. Whether it is built high, its walls are in a straight line or not, but God is seen in every corner of it. He who knows the House of God, knows it because God is remembered there.
31. This abode of the angels has eight circuits and nine gates. It is unconquerable, there is eternal life in it and it is resplendent with Divine light.
The Ka'bah is not exactly cubical and its sides are not of the same length. The Holy Sanctuary (Haram) of which Ka'abah is at the center remains open day and night throughout the year and it is always filled with people praying and supplicating to Allah (the One True God). Muslims face toward it during prayer forming circle in the Haram (Holy House) and the circle extends out in this manner throughout the planet Earth.
The holy sanctuary (Haram) has remained unconquerable. Abraha al-Ashram, the Abbysinian viceroy of Yemen, tried to demolish it in 570 CE with a strong army and hordes of elephants but was prevented from entering the city (Holy precinct). The people of Makkah had decided not to defend the Ka'bah, fled the city and took refuge in nearby hills overlooking Ka'bah. By Allah's Command, the 'Abaabeel' (flying creatures, birds) pelted stones at Abraha's army and decimated it, leaving them like green crops devoured by cattle.
This incident is described in the Surah (chapter) 105 of the Qur'an. The year 570 CE is popularly known by the Arabs as 'The year of the Elephant,' and Prophet Muhammad was born in that year.
Paul in the book of Galatians and the most recent Archeological Discoveries suggest that Mount Sinai is in Saudi Arabia and NOT in Egypt's Sinai desert:
Recent archeological discoveries along with Paul's own words in Galatians 4:25 clearly suggest that Mount Sinai is located in Saudi Arabia. This means that Paran being south of Mount Sinai clearly means that it is the Holy City of Mecca as I showed above:
The Bible clearly says that Paran is south of Sinai in Egypt; "He said: 'The LORD came from Sinai and dawned over them from Seir; he shone forth from Mount Paran. He came with myriads of holy ones from the south, from his mountain slopes.' (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 33:2)"
This verse is elaborated on further above. Now, let us first look at Galatians 4:25, then the archeological evidence:
"Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. (From the NIV Bible, Galatians 4:25)"
From Why isn't there any record of millions of Jews wandering in the desert? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
Why isn't there any record of millions of Jews wandering in the desert?
There has been a lot of speculation on the route of the Exodus and why the traditional site hasn't yielded any archaeological evidence. After all, if two million people wander in a desert for forty years, you'd think that at least something would be found to support it. But, nothing at all has been unearthed in the Sinai Peninsula supporting the biblical account of the Exodus. Various explanations for this range from the idea that it is naturally difficult to find any archeological evidence in a desert of sand to the explanation that the traditional site is the wrong one.
First of all, no archaeological find has ever contradicted the Bible. Archaeology has only confirmed what the Bible says. As has been the case with so many other things in the Bible, as archaeology progresses, they will most certainly uncover evidence in the future. The Bible has yet to be proven wrong by archaeology.
Second, lack of evidence doesn't mean there wasn't an Exodus. However, this is a slippery slope since having a lack of evidence for an ice cream factory on Jupiter doesn't mean that there is one. What we need is evidence and it is fair to say that there should be some evidence for the wanderings of two million people for forty years in a desert.
Understanding the difference between the OT and NT is very very basic information. especially if you want to have a normal discussion with other people about religion.Wrong.Actually Caladan before I come to this forum, I didn't know even the difference between old and new testament
Its good to ask the right questions, mostly the normal ones, down to earth ones, that deal with the practical issues. trust me, its a safe bet. if you 'didnt care about religions until now' did not know the difference between the OT and the NT, try to consider that most people here have at least a very basic understanding of these issues, we are really not looking for wild claims that would validate Islam.I never care about religions, any maybe you notice that all my posts here are consist of questions, because the more I ask, the more I discover how ignorant I was.
A few important details. Baca is a Hebrew name for a valley in Palestine, a name which was used centuries before the appearance of Mecca, and the Qur'anic Bakkah. further more these verses discuss Zion, which is in Jerusalem. so now you have asked your first questions and jumped into the water, do you think you can in any way show that the Qur'ans Bakkah is the same as the Hebrew Bible's Baca, further more can you show that it geographically speaks about where Mecca is? a city which was built perhaps a thousand years after these passages were written?As for Bacca, Yes it's mentioned in Qur'an, and let me bring some information about this point from another site, and I'm sorry for doing that (copy&paste):
With all due respect I've touched the very basic information which sould be examined for the claims and the verses you provided, namely the name place Baca/Bakkah and where it is located. I provided a challange for you, which is to show that the Hebrew Baca refers to Mecca which is over 1000 KM from Zion which is in Jerusalem and which the Biblical verses discuss, and the fact that Baca is a Hebrew name for a place in Palestine many centuries before Mecca even existed.It's very clear from your answer that you didn't read a word from the passage.
No need for any challenges, because I come here to learn not to make a show, if I really have the evidence or know the answer I would not ask.I provided a challange for you, which is to show that the Hebrew Baca refers to Mecca which is over 1000 KM from Zion which is in Jerusalem
I hope your answer makes you feel satisfied.I asked you already to try and make simple order in your own thread. you started it by throwing claims about the book of Genesis, than dropped the book of Genesis and jumped to the Book of Psalms, than you dropped it and jumped to verses about the wilderness of Paran
Usually when remarkable claims are being made, I expect more material than a comment that it was read in an Islamic forum.
The Hebrew bible does not deal with Islam, but with the religion and society of the Israelites, it is not uncommon however for Islamic leaders to try and substantiate Islamic tradition through linking it to the rich legacy of the Hebrew bible.
This claim would at least need to show that 'House of God' mentioned in Genesis was built where Mecca later came to be.
Hi,
I read in Islamic forum that the holy house which mentioned in the Genesis is exactly the Kaaba in Mecca.
Any explanation will be appreciated.
Thanks.
Hi,
I read in Islamic forum that the holy house which mentioned in the Genesis is exactly the Kaaba in Mecca.
Any explanation will be appreciated.
Thanks.