• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Why does the Quran direct Muslims to Bible?

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
This is a question for the muslim posters mainly but others may join in. I have noticed that a lot of muslims posters seem to be of the opinion that the bible (hebrew and greek scriptures) are not to be viewed as the Word of God...that the text is compromised and untrustworthy.

However, i'd like to ask what the opinion is on these verses from the Quran which encourages the use of the bible?

Āl ‘Imrān [3]:3, 4, NJD: “He has revealed to you the Book with the truth, confirming the scriptures which preceded it; for He has already revealed the Torah and the Gospel [Injīl in Arabic] for the guidance of men.”

Al-Mā’idah [5]:46, 47: And in their footsteps, We sent 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), confirming the Taurat (Torah) that had come before him, and We gave him the Injeel (Gospel), in which was guidance and light and confirmation of the Taurat (Torah) that had come before it, a guidance and an admonition for Al-Muttaqun (the pious)

Yūnus [10]:94.“If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee.”


It seems to me that the Quran is endorsing the use of the holy bible rather then trying to correct its teachings. I'd like to know where this idea that the bible needed correcting comes from?

And if the bible was falsified 'later' as muslims claim, then when is 'later'? It must have been before Mohammads time, otherwise he would not have come and declared that it had been changed... but then if it was before Mohammad, why would the Quran (which was written AFTER Mohammads time) direct people to the bible?


This all seems very contradictory to me. :(
 
Just want to say one thing that might clarify you to some extent that we muslim surely believe in Torat,Zaboor,Injeel etc to be the word of Allah just like Quran , but not the bibble , what i know biblle means 'books of a book' that might contain word from holy book (what i read its a combination of Torat and Injeel called as old testimen and new) , it migh also contain words of Prophets, it might also contian word of scholars or person too. This is just what i read , christians can clarify if you want?

You said
why would the Quran (which was written AFTER Mohammads time) direct people to the bible?

Can you please calrify what do you mean by 'direct' (Sorry my english is not to good so not able to understand this sentence properly.

So , just read the quran you never find the word bibble, instead you found torat, Injeel ,Zaboor etc.
 

A Thousand Suns

Rationalist
This is a question for the muslim posters mainly but others may join in. I have noticed that a lot of muslims posters seem to be of the opinion that the bible (hebrew and greek scriptures) are not to be viewed as the Word of God...that the text is compromised and untrustworthy.
Not only us Muslims but the Christian theologians themselves say that Bible is corrupted
Āl ‘Imrān [3]:3, 4, NJD: “He has revealed to you the Book with the truth, confirming the scriptures which preceded it; for He has already revealed the Torah and the Gospel [Injīl in Arabic] for the guidance of men.”
I'm not sure which translation are you using but if you read it in Arabic it continues and says that (now we have sent down Furqan) meaning criteria between right and wrong

Yousuf Ali translation


Quran - 3:3
It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).

Al-Mā’idah [5]:46, 47: And in their footsteps, We sent 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), confirming the Taurat (Torah) that had come before him, and We gave him the Injeel (Gospel), in which was guidance and light and confirmation of the Taurat (Torah) that had come before it, a guidance and an admonition for Al-Muttaqun (the pious)
Complete context :)

Quran 5:45-47

We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers. And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

Yūnus [10]:94.“If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee.”

Quran -10:93-96

If you have any doubt regarding what is revealed to you from your Lord, then ask those who read the previous scripture. Indeed, the truth has come to you from your Lord. Do not be with the doubters.Nor shall you join those who rejected GOD's revelations, lest you be with the losers.Surely, those condemned by a decree from your Lord cannot believe.

I hope you can understand the context as the verse continues----Quran 10:94 would be equivalent to in simpler words : "if you have any doubt about our scriptures then ask people who dont believe in them so they can tell you that your scripture is false and theirs is true"----also it would be a waste of time if you are trying to use anti-Islamic sites as a source about Quran
 
Last edited:

Bowman

Active Member
Just want to say one thing that might clarify you to some extent that we muslim surely believe in Torat,Zaboor,Injeel etc to be the word of Allah just like Quran , but not the bibble , what i know biblle means 'books of a book' that might contain word from holy book (what i read its a combination of Torat and Injeel called as old testimen and new) , it migh also contain words of Prophets, it might also contian word of scholars or person too. This is just what i read , christians can clarify if you want?

You are merely showing us your consistent islamic training, brother.

The term 'Koran' literally means 'collection'...and yes, that is what it is...a collection of previous Jewish and Christian scriptures...
 

Bowman

Active Member
I'm not sure which translation are you using but if you read it in Arabic it continues and says that (now we have sent down Furqan) meaning criteria between right and wrong



Yousuf Ali translation

Quran - 3:3
It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).


100% incorrect, brother.

You are not even bothering to read the very translation which you copy-pasted.

The Arabic is "min qablu"...meaning 'before this', or 'from before'...of which can hardly be refering to the 'Koran' which came afterward...



Complete context :)

Quran 5:45-47

We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers.And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

And...?


Quran -10:93

If you have any doubt regarding what is revealed to you from your Lord, then ask those who read the previous scripture. Indeed, the truth has come to you from your Lord. Do not be with the doubters.

I hope you can understand the context----Quran 10:94 would be equivalent to in simpler words : "if you have any doubt about our scriptures then ask people who dont believe in them so they can tell you that your scripture is false and theirs is true"


Not even a hint that the Bible is not what it should be.

Keep trying...
 

A-ManESL

Well-Known Member
It must have been before Mohammads time, otherwise he would not have come and declared that it had been changed... but then if it was before Mohammad, why would the Quran (which was written AFTER Mohammads time) direct people to the bible?
This all seems very contradictory to me. :(


1. While the Quran was physically written down after Prophet Muhammad's time, during his lifetime when he told the verses of the Quran many people memorized it, and some had barks on which verses were written. All this was compared, and collected and physically written down later during the caliphate of Othman RA, but in the opinion of almost all historians, non-Muslim or Muslim, it was exactly the same as the verses during the time of Prophet. The mere act of writing down the Quran on paper occured later but that in no way invalidates that the verses are the same as said by the Prophet to be the Quran.

2. I am yet to come across a hadith of the Prophet which says explicitly that the literal words of the Bible have been changed. The actual situation in 7th C Arabia was that Prophet Muhammad found corruption in general attitude of the Arabic Jews and Christians, in his neighborhood, and felt that they were not following the correct way. He had a positive outlook for the Christian monks of Sinai and to them (after the Arab conquest of Egypt) he sent this letter.

The only other hadith I know which is relevant to what you are talking about is

ما حدثكم أهل الكتاب فلا تصدقوهم ولا تكذبوهم، وقولوا آمنا بالله ورسله، فإن كان باطلاً لم تصدقوه، وإن كان حقاً لم تكذبوه

Translation: Whatever the people of the book have narrated to you so neither believe them, nor disbelieve, and just say we believed in Allah and his Apostles. That's so you don't believe it if it was false, and you don't disbelieve in it if it was true.

In essence, it asks Muslims not to judge the opinions of Jews, Christians etc.

3. According to Ibn Taymiya, although only some Muslims accept the textual veracity of the entire Bible, most Muslims will grant the veracity of most of it. * Esposito (1998), pp.6,12* Esposito (2002b), pp.4–5* F. E. Peters (2003), p.9* F. Buhl; A. T. Welch. "Muhammad". Encyclopaedia of Islam Online.* Hava Lazarus-Yafeh. "Tahrif". Encyclopaedia of Islam Online.

4. Some Muslim scholars who dont propose the thesis that the text of the Bible has been altered (obviously, in their opinion they are not in contradiction to the Quran or the Hadith)

4.1 Syed Ahmad Khan:
”As far as the text of the Bible is concerned, it has not been altered. No attempt was made to present a diverging text as the authentic one.”
From: M.H.Ananikian, “The Reforms and Religious Ideas of Sir Sayyid Ahmad Khan”,
The Moslem World 14 (1934) p.61

4.2 Muhammad Abduh:
”... the charge of corruption of the Biblical texts makes no sense at all.
It would not have been possible for Jews and Christians everywhere
to agree on changing the text. Even if those in Arabia had done it,
the difference between their book and those of their brothers,
let us say in Syria and Europe, would have been obvious.”
From: Jacques Jomier, “Jesus, The Life of the Messiah”, C.L.S., Madras, 1974, p.216

4.3 Abdullah ibn ‘Abbas (Mohammed pbuh's cousin and one of his companions)
“The word “Tahrif” [corruption] signifies to change a thing from its original nature; and there is no man who could corrupt a single word of what proceeds from God, so that the Jews and Christians could corrupt only by misrepresenting the meanings of the word of God.''
From: Imam Muhammad Isma'il al-Bukhari in Dictionary of Islam, T.P.Hughes,
Kazi Publications, Inc, 3023-27 West BelmontAvenue, Chicago Il. 60618, 1994, p.62

4.4 Fakhruddin Razi on the authority of Ibn Abbas, a nephew of Muhammed pbuh:
"The Jews and early Christians were suspected of altering the text of the Taurat and Injil; but in the opinion of eminent doctors and theologians it was not practicable thus to corrupt the text, because those Scriptures were generally known and widely circulated, having been handed down from generation to generation." (I could not find the source for this from the internet)

4.5 "The early commentators of the Koran and doctors of Islam who did not have a firsthand knowledge of the Bible believed in "Tahrif-I-Manawi" (corruption in meaning) only. (Abdul-Haqq, Sharing Your Faith with a Muslim, p. 38).

4.6 I found many other names, who posit this, by a google search one even of Imam Ghazali (could not find the source). In reference to him, I did find this written about him:
His creed is that it is impossible that there should be a union of divinity and humanity in Christ, and the method of interpretation he has adopted must lead to this result. So in spite of the appearance of fairness which we have here, it must be admitted that Al Ghazzali's argument is to support a foregone conclusion. It is, however, very interesting to find that he is prepared to argue the case on the assumption that the Gospels are genuine, and this is in marked contrast to what we have seen in the case of Ibn Hasm's attack. (Sweetman, Islam and Christian Theology, Part 2, Vol. 1, p. 267).

5. I have no doubt that there are any Muslim scholars who say the contrary to above as well. Islam is followed by 25% of the world, dont forget. There are many disagreements on many topics.

6. Finally here are some verses in the Quran regarding Christianity and Judaism:

Those who believe and those who are Jews, Christians and Sabeans,
[in fact] anyone who believes in God and the Last Day, and acts
honorably will receive their earnings from their Lord: no fear will lie
upon them nor need they feel saddened.-2:62

[But] they are not all alike: among the followers of earlier revelation there are upright people, who recite God's messages throughout the night, and prostrate themselves [before Him]. They believe in God and the Last Day, and enjoin the doing of what is right and forbid the doing of what is wrong, and vie with one another in doing good works: and these are among the righteous.-3:113-114

Nonetheless, those who believe in- the prophets who dated for back in the past and those who profess Judaism and the various sects of the Sabeites and of the Sabaeans and the Christians and those who fall in line with the prophet Muhammad; whoever believes in Allah, and acknowledges the truth of Resurrection and Judgement and imprints his deeds with wisdom and piety, shall Heaven reward them for their homage thereto, and no fear nor dread shall fall upon them nor shall they come to grief.-5:69


Regards
 
Last edited:

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Just want to say one thing that might clarify you to some extent that we muslim surely believe in Torat,Zaboor,Injeel etc to be the word of Allah just like Quran , but not the bibble , what i know biblle means 'books of a book' that might contain word from holy book (what i read its a combination of Torat and Injeel called as old testimen and new) , it migh also contain words of Prophets, it might also contian word of scholars or person too. This is just what i read , christians can clarify if you want?

the english word 'bible' means 'little books' but the term, for a very long time, (since before Mohammads time) describes the whole collection of divinely inspired scripture from the Jews and Christians. The bible is a collection of 66 writings from Moses, the prophets, Kings of Isreal and Apostles of Christ.

so really, the bible IS the Torat, Injeel & Zaboor



Can you please calrify what do you mean by 'direct' (Sorry my english is not to good so not able to understand this sentence properly.

thats ok.
I posted the verses from the Quran which tell people to look at the bible/torat/Injeel
EG. Āl ‘Imrān [3]:3, 4, NJD: “He has revealed to you the Book with the truth, confirming the scriptures which preceded it; for He has already revealed the Torah and the Gospel [Injīl in Arabic] for the guidance of men.”

it appears to me that the Quran approves of the bible and says the Torat and Injeel has 'already been revealed for the guidance of men'
It just doesnt appear to imply that the Quran has replaced the bible to me.
 

Bowman

Active Member
it appears to me that the Quran approves of the bible and says the Torat and Injeel has 'already been revealed for the guidance of men'
It just doesnt appear to imply that the Quran has replaced the bible to me.

This is one of the few things which we can both agree upon, Pegg...;)
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Not only us Muslims but the Christian theologians themselves say that Bible is corrupted
the teachings have been corrupted, but not the writings....there is a big difference.

I'm not sure which translation are you using but if you read it in Arabic it continues and says that (now we have sent down Furqan) meaning criteria between right and wrong

Yousuf Ali translation


Quran - 3:3
It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).

Please tell me what this means, 'confirming what went before it'

Complete context :)
Quran 5:45-47
We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers. And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

when i read this, I do not see that the Quran has replaced the Torat or Injeel. This verse itself says that the scriptures were 'confirmed' by Jesus and the 'gospel' was given as a guidance for people to judge by what was revealed in it.

Now in the Gospel, Jesus revealed that God no longer required the judicial punishments of eye for eye and tooth for tooth. Jesus words were that we should turn our other cheek to our enemies and we should not retaliate when under attack. Jesus himself did not retaliate or fight when he was being beaten and tortured by the roman soldiers... his example was as he taught.

So if I was to obey the Quran, I would have to obey the gospel accounts and Jesus words about 'loving thy enemy' & 'pray for those persecuting you' & 'return your sword to its place'

And even this verse in the quarn appears to be backing up Jesus words about not retaliating for it says
'But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself.'
In other words, God is pleased with us when we retaliate with kindness....thats exactly as Jesus taught.


Quran -10:93-96

If you have any doubt regarding what is revealed to you from your Lord, then ask those who read the previous scripture. Indeed, the truth has come to you from your Lord. Do not be with the doubters.Nor shall you join those who rejected GOD's revelations, lest you be with the losers.Surely, those condemned by a decree from your Lord cannot believe.

I hope you can understand the context as the verse continues----Quran 10:94 would be equivalent to in simpler words : "if you have any doubt about our scriptures then ask people who dont believe in them so they can tell you that your scripture is false and theirs is true"

i must be reading this verse wrong because to me its saying that if one doubts what the Quran states, then ask for confirmation from people who read the bible.

Why does the beginning of the verse tell you to 'ask those who read the previous scripture ?
 
Last edited:

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
1. While the Quran was physically written down after Prophet Muhammad's time, during his lifetime when he told the verses of the Quran many people memorized it, and some had barks on which verses were written. All this was compared, and collected and physically written down later during the caliphate of Othman RA, but in the opinion of almost all historians, non-Muslim or Muslim, it was exactly the same as the verses during the time of Prophet. The mere act of writing down the Quran on paper occured later but that in no way invalidates that the verses are the same as said by the Prophet to be the Quran.

I agree that this is certainly possible...the gospels were written down several years after Jesus death and I have no doubt that what is written is true and accurate according to Jesus words.


2. I am yet to come across a hadith of the Prophet which says explicitly that the literal words of the Bible have been changed. The actual situation in 7th C Arabia was that Prophet Muhammad found corruption in general attitude of the Arabic Jews and Christians, in his neighborhood, and felt that they were not following the correct way. He had a positive outlook for the Christian monks of Sinai and to them (after the Arab conquest of Egypt) he sent this letter.

I agree 100% with you there. There were definitely wrong ideas which were introduced to the christian church...thankfully, the scriptures are able to sort out the true doctrines from the false.

The only other hadith I know which is relevant to what you are talking about is

ما حدثكم أهل الكتاب فلا تصدقوهم ولا تكذبوهم، وقولوا آمنا بالله ورسله، فإن كان باطلاً لم تصدقوه، وإن كان حقاً لم تكذبوه

Translation: Whatever the people of the book have narrated to you so neither believe them, nor disbelieve, and just say we believed in Allah and his Apostles. That's so you don't believe it if it was false, and you don't disbelieve in it if it was true.

In essence, it asks Muslims not to judge the opinions of Jews, Christians etc.
but what about the scriptures themselves....if the Quran clearly tells muslims that the scriptures are from God and they should be consulted to confirm what the Quran says, then this advise is contrary to that advice.

In some verses the Quran says 'go to the bible for confirmation'
but in others such as this verse it says 'neither believe nor disbelieve'

How do you reason on that?

3. According to Ibn Taymiya, although only some Muslims accept the textual veracity of the entire Bible, most Muslims will grant the veracity of most of it. * Esposito (1998), pp.6,12* Esposito (2002b), pp.4–5* F. E. Peters (2003), p.9* F. Buhl; A. T. Welch. "Muhammad". Encyclopaedia of Islam Online.* Hava Lazarus-Yafeh. "Tahrif". Encyclopaedia of Islam Online.

4. Some Muslim scholars who dont propose the thesis that the text of the Bible has been altered (obviously, in their opinion they are not in contradiction to the Quran or the Hadith)

4.1 Syed Ahmad Khan:
”As far as the text of the Bible is concerned, it has not been altered. No attempt was made to present a diverging text as the authentic one.”
From: M.H.Ananikian, “The Reforms and Religious Ideas of Sir Sayyid Ahmad Khan”,
The Moslem World 14 (1934) p.61

4.2 Muhammad Abduh:
”... the charge of corruption of the Biblical texts makes no sense at all.
It would not have been possible for Jews and Christians everywhere
to agree on changing the text. Even if those in Arabia had done it,
the difference between their book and those of their brothers,
let us say in Syria and Europe, would have been obvious.”
From: Jacques Jomier, “Jesus, The Life of the Messiah”, C.L.S., Madras, 1974, p.216

4.3 Abdullah ibn ‘Abbas (Mohammed pbuh's cousin and one of his companions)
“The word “Tahrif” [corruption] signifies to change a thing from its original nature; and there is no man who could corrupt a single word of what proceeds from God, so that the Jews and Christians could corrupt only by misrepresenting the meanings of the word of God.''
From: Imam Muhammad Isma'il al-Bukhari in Dictionary of Islam, T.P.Hughes,
Kazi Publications, Inc, 3023-27 West BelmontAvenue, Chicago Il. 60618, 1994, p.62

4.4 Fakhruddin Razi on the authority of Ibn Abbas, a nephew of Muhammed pbuh:
"The Jews and early Christians were suspected of altering the text of the Taurat and Injil; but in the opinion of eminent doctors and theologians it was not practicable thus to corrupt the text, because those Scriptures were generally known and widely circulated, having been handed down from generation to generation." (I could not find the source for this from the internet)

4.5 "The early commentators of the Koran and doctors of Islam who did not have a firsthand knowledge of the Bible believed in "Tahrif-I-Manawi" (corruption in meaning) only. (Abdul-Haqq, Sharing Your Faith with a Muslim, p. 38).

4.6 I found many other names, who posit this, by a google search one even of Imam Ghazali (could not find the source). In reference to him, I did find this written about him:

thank you for all that information. Its reassuring to see that not all muslim teachers are of the opinion that the bible is corrupted.
There is too much evidence that the scriptures have not been changed because of the sheer number of manuscripts available...so its good to see that some muslim scholars actually look deeply enough into the scriptures to be able to confirm this.
 

Bowman

Active Member
but what about the scriptures themselves....if the Quran clearly tells muslims that the scriptures are from God and they should be consulted to confirm what the Quran says, then this advise is contrary to that advice.


I would like to see a follower of islam produce an ayah which states this, as well...after all, this is the premise on which to build...
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
but what about the scriptures themselves....if the Quran clearly tells muslims that the scriptures are from God and they should be consulted to confirm what the Quran says, then this advise is contrary to that advice.

How so?.....You have to define what scripture you mean. The Quran mentions a few scrolls but is silent on the epistles. The Quran is silent on the 4 gospels.

The Quran speaks of the Torah but only that which was revealed to Moses and not the latter parts of the Torah where it is describing the death and burial of Moses. How could Moses write about his own death and burial? This shows that some parts are not his words and was written by someone else chronicling him.

When Muslims say Injil they're not talking about the 4 gospels. Case in point;

Matthew 4:23
And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Luke 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor;...................


So we must understand at this point that the gospel is the word or good news as some would say spoken by Yeshua and others and not a book because at this point while Yeshua and company are preaching the gospel the"gospel" it hadn't been written yet..not until a few decades later. So we must understand this to be referring to an oral tradition.



In some verses the Quran says 'go to the bible for confirmation'
but in others such as this verse it says 'neither believe nor disbelieve'

How do you reason on that?

Because it never said go to the bible as the "bible" wasn't compiled until centuries after the Quran was written down.
 
Last edited:

A-ManESL

Well-Known Member
but what about the scriptures themselves....if the Quran clearly tells muslims that the scriptures are from God and they should be consulted to confirm what the Quran says, then this advise is contrary to that advice.

This isnt a verse from the Quran. It is a hadith. And this is in reference to the attitude of the Christians and the Jews of 7th C Arabia, (and not of the literal text of the scripture). The Prophet found the attitude of the Christians and Jews he approached was egoistic, having a "chosen people" idea. As I said I am yet to come across any evidence that the Prophet studied the Bible and commented on its literal contents. In general, the Prophet felt that the Jews and Christians gave opinions (which may or may not have been claimed to be literal quotes from the Bible) which were prejudiced and misinterpretations of the correct path. In that regard he said to his followers that there is no need to judge what these 7th C Arabic Jews and Rabbi were saying, so that no wrongdoing is done. Also dont forget he was exposed to only a form (some evidence indicates a gnostic form) of Christianity in his neighborhood. Hadith must be understood in the context.

Secondly you must understand that the role of the Bible for Christians is not quite analogous to the role of the Quran to the Muslims. How Christians percieve Jesus Christ (on whom may be peace), is similar to how Muslims percieve the Quran. It is for Muslims the literal word of God, "something directly of God" in this world, much like Jesus (pbuh) is for the Chrisitans. Hence for the Muslim path, the Quran occupies a unique position, and this must not be overlooked in the kind of analysis you are making. Besides being used as a guiding book the Quran is revered by Muslims for what it is, something which has come from God, and as such it is deemed sufficient for all purposes by a Muslim. Some scholars even say that while the role analogous to Jesus(pbuh) is the Quran, the role of Mary (on whom may be peace) is analogous to that of the Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) as the medium through which this divine-ness (Jesus(pbuh) or Quran depending upon your faith) came about in this world.

At any rate, all I am saying is that to compare both the books in isolation is easy but it isnt correct. I feel that this is what is going on in the thread.

Because it never said go to the bible as the "bible" wasn't compiled until centuries after the Quran was written down.

Can you give me a source for this?
Regards
 
Last edited:

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
Wrong.

Your ignorance of scripture is showing again, brother...


Please present the evidence that the bible was compiled before the writing of the Quran. See, I know you like to be combative on certain levels but on this I thought we would agree...but since you seem to think the bible was compiled before the Quran was put to paper you mush show it with evidence.
 

A-ManESL

Well-Known Member
DP are you referring to the Catholic official canonization of the Bible in the Council of Trent (1546)? Weren't the various books of the Bible available before as well, mere official canonization was pending? Or are you referring to Protestant versions like King James (1611)? I dont see any evidence of significantly new recompilation at these later stages.

Regards
 
Last edited:

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
How so?.....You have to define what scripture you mean. The Quran mentions a few scrolls but is silent on the epistles. The Quran is silent on the 4 gospels.
When I say scripture, im referring to all 66 scrolls that make up the 'bible'
Are the words and teachings of Jesus considered 'gospel'?
Are the writings of the prophets considered 'scripture'?


The Quran speaks of the Torah but only that which was revealed to Moses and not the latter parts of the Torah where it is describing the death and burial of Moses. How could Moses write about his own death and burial? This shows that some parts are not his words and was written by someone else chronicling him.
Yes i understand that. Moses successor was Joshua and the evidence is that he is the one who added the closing remarks about Moses death. He went on to write the history and Gods dealing with Isreal as they prepared to enter the promised land....his writing is still considered 'inspired' which is why it is included in the holy collection.

When Muslims say Injil they're not talking about the 4 gospels. Case in point;

Matthew 4:23
And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Luke 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor;...................


So we must understand at this point that the gospel is the word or good news as some would say spoken by Yeshua and others and not a book because at this point while Yeshua and company are preaching the gospel the"gospel" it hadn't been written yet..not until a few decades later. So we must understand this to be referring to an oral tradition.

but the teachings of Jesus was laid out in the gospel accounts...they contain the teachings of that gospel that he taught....just as the Quran does with Mohammad teachings. So to dicard or ignore the written gospel accounts would be tantamount to discarding the written Quran.


Because it never said go to the bible as the "bible" wasn't compiled until centuries after the Quran was written down.

The hebrew scriptures had been in use for centuries before Mohammad was even born.
The christian scriptures were in use and accepted by Christians since the end of the 1st century. We know this because of the the Maruatorian fragment which contains a list of new testament books in circulation among the congregations.
The Greek-language original of the Latin Muratorian Fragment is dated to between 170 and 200 C.E.

So unless you believe the Quran was written in the first century, then i'd have to slightly disagree on this point.
 

A-ManESL

Well-Known Member
Just found some information from the net:

Resurrection of Jesus (many passages and verses such as John 20:14) are not there in the Codex. Nor were the limits of the Bible recognized by the Catholic Church before 1546! The first official canon was apparently only recognized by the Council of Trent(1546).

This is a surprise to me! Why did it take so long? But I think that is why the Prophet Muhammad(pbuh), in the 7th C instructed his followers to avoid passing opinion on the scriptures of Christians and Jews but just stick to following the path he was showing.

Regards
 
Last edited:
Top