Atheism: The Great Nothing!

[mickiel]

Proof would not leave room for doubt, however there is doubt. So therefor that cannot be proof of god.

Again you have perfection (god) creating imperfection (man) and then reprimending them for their own faults.... It's illogical and I have yet to see proof for any god that has been created......

Your reasoning is proof of God, as is your doubt. Your very consciousness is proof of him, it didnot evolve from nothing. Nothing from nothing leaves nothing, thats why Atheism is the great nothing, it gives its orgin to nothing, and its end to nothing.

Peace.

 

[PolyHedral]

No, his consciousness is proof of me, since I am the creater of all consciousness. Including my own.

 

[Copernicus]

I am what I am, and the counter arguements hold no merit in my view.

But I made no counterarguments. That's the problem. No matter what anyone else says, you fail to respond. So you responded automatically to my post without even paying attention its content. By refusing to engage us in honest debate, you reveal the process by which you maintain your own faith: :ignore:

 

[Peacewise]

Just how does one debate this subject effectively, it's obvious that the following doesn't work.
I want proof.
____ is proof.
That's not proof.

or...
I want proof.
____ is evidence.
That's neither proof nor evidence.

or...
I want proof.
Indeed, but truly you need faith more than proof to understand.
Faith is for fools.

meh.

I appreciate the way mickiel "debates" with atheists.
He leads by example, he has faith and shows it.

 

[mickiel]

faith[/U] and shows it.

Well thank you, I do my best with what I have.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

But I made no counterarguments. That's the problem. No matter what anyone else says, you fail to respond. So you responded automatically to my post without even paying attention its content. By refusing to engage us in honest debate, you reveal the process by which you maintain your own faith: :ignore:

Well I don't have much Faith, I would like more.

Still, I do my best to respond.

Peace.

 

[NeoSeeker]

Atheism is nothing because it excludes the existance of a God, which is a zero premise, comming from zero thinking. Just think; thinking humans who hold direct consciousness, think that their thinking was originated from unthinking matter. Its absurd and unrealistic, its not rational thinking. Its like believing that a pile of junk just appeared out of nowhere, and a whole planet also appeared suddenly, then the junk fell to this planet, assembled itself into a fully functional automobile, and just started driving itself.

Its an insult to the intelligence of the human consciousness.

Peace.

I disagree. I am not an Atheist and I think if you (general term) don't believe in something like a greater force you have just as little of a chance of being right as theists. However, the Devil is in the details. While I'm sure there are Atheists out there who are sure there is no God/Higher Force, my understanding of Atheism is that they don't believe in any known or purported God for lack of evidence. And if I understand correctly, the no-God determination is subject to change if evidence ever appears. In other words, their standard for belief is set at a higher bar than the average faithful who are willing to go with a feeling or what was driven into their heads as children.

Their mistake is the common Atheist habit of proclaiming "there is no God". While they may mean there is no God as "you describe it", a more appropriate response is "I don't know" what is there. Just because it can't be seen, does not mean there is nothing. I feel there is something, I sense something, but I don't like calling it God because the term connotates a sentient being of which we have knowledge of with a set of rules and expectations when in reality we know nothing, if it is an intelligent force that can relate or interact with us in any meaningful way during our physical lives other than what we imagine.

 

[mickiel]

I disagree. I am not an Atheist and I think if you (general term) don't believe in something like a greater force you have just as little of a chance of being right as theists. However, the Devil is in the details. While I'm sure there are Atheists out there who are sure there is no God/Higher Force, my understanding of Atheism is that they don't believe in any known or purported God for lack of evidence. And if I understand correctly, the no-God determination is subject to change if evidence ever appears. In other words, their standard for belief is set at a higher bar than the average faithful who are willing to go with a feeling or what was driven into their heads as children.

Their mistake is the common Atheist habit of proclaiming "there is no God". While they may mean there is no God as "you describe it", a more appropriate response is "I don't know" what is there. Just because it can't be seen, does not mean there is nothing. I feel there is something, I sense something, but I don't like calling it God because the term connotates a sentient being of which we have knowledge of with a set of rules and expectations when in reality we no nothing, if it is an intelligent force that can relate or interact with us in any meaningful way during our physical lives other than what we imagine.

Well I disagree, there is plenty of evidence for God. Atheist just can't reason it out, they reason from something to nothing. Life itself is evidence for God, as is Consciousness and reason. Three hughe evidences for God, and yet they are rejected as evidence.

Peace.

 

[MW0082]

Well I disagree, there is plenty of evidence for God. Atheist just can't reason it out, they reason from something to nothing. Life itself is evidence for God, as is Consciousness and reason. Three hughe evidences for God, and yet they are rejected as evidence.

Peace.

Life is not evidence of god, we humans can and have created life. So are we gods as well?

Consciousness and reason are not limited to humans, so again no subtance what so ver in your answers. Your'e not even debating, your making statments about your feelings. Why don't you tell us why these things are evidence of god.....?

 

[PolyHedral]

I can get a computer to reason, or to produce more of itself. Once you can concretely define consciousness, I can probably get it to do that too. Does that make me a god?

 

[Willamena]

Life is not evidence of god, we humans can and have created life. So are we gods as well?

Consciousness and reason are not limited to humans, so again no subtance what so ver in your answers. Your'e not even debating, your making statments about your feelings. Why don't you tell us why these things are evidence of god.....?

And this is you, rejecting evidence (just like he said).

 

[NeoSeeker]

Well I disagree, there is plenty of evidence for God. Atheist just can't reason it out, they reason from something to nothing. Life itself is evidence for God, as is Consciousness and reason. Three hughe evidences for God, and yet they are rejected as evidence.

Peace.

These things are evidence of a force (feel free to call it God) that created the universe and an environment where life can exist. But that is not the problem. I think everyone would agree that "something" created the universe. The problem is when humans start attributing characteristics to this force- Intelligence, love, awareness of us, a set of rules and punishments for bad behavior. If intelligent, it could be totally focused on the big picture and you may be worshiping something that has no awareness of you as an individual at all.

Life is not evidence of god, we humans can and have created life. So are we gods as well?

The counter argument is that it is whatever set up the universe also allowed us a functional space to create life based on the laws of science it created.

And this is you, rejecting evidence (just like he said).

Evidence of what? Put a name on and assign characteristics based on conjecture? We don't know what is what.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

I think everyone would agree that "something" created the universe.

Then you are wrong.

There is a big difference between actual thinking and and putting your own beliefs into thought. I suggest you learn the difference.

There are plenty of people on this forum who do not believe the universe was created.

 

[mickiel]

Life is evidence of God.

Reason is evidence of God.

Consciousness is evidence of God.

DNA is evidence of God.

The Laws of Conversion is evidence of God.

The Laws of Biogenesis are evidence of God.

Biblical Archaeology is evidence of God.

RNA is evidence of God.

The Cambrian strata of Rocks is evidence of God.

Romance is evidence of God.

Atheism is evidence of God.

Peace.

 

[PolyHedral]

Why?
.

 

[mickiel]

Why?
.

Well just pick one evidence I listed and I will go into it.

For example Atheism is evidence of God. God obviously has a way about himself that he is not revealing himself like I know he could. He has literally blinded people to his existence , and Atheism sure proves that. Gods ways are unusual, at least they are to me. He wanted humanity to experience everything, and wanted us all to know what it is like to live without him. And that for a reason. For an eternal lesson he is literally now teaching all of humanity.

He wanted there to be Atheist, and I think a growing number of Atheist are more interested in him than they let on. When an Atheist is interested in God, that speaks volumes. And is evidence that within their Consciousness, even they suspect a great power. God is building a case, which will convince everyone when it comes to court.

Peace.

 

[NeoSeeker]

Then you are wrong.

There is a big difference between actual thinking and and putting your own beliefs into thought. I suggest you learn the difference.

There are plenty of people on this forum who do not believe the universe was created.

Some series of actions occurred (my definition of "something") to create the universe. I did not imply that something was intelligent or at least did not mean to, but it could have been, just as easily as it could be some unintelligent happenstance. I suggest you relax and think more about adding to the conversation then putting forum participants in their place. You deny the universe was created, at some point it did not exist in it's current form?

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Some series of actions occurred (my definition of "something") to create the universe. I did not imply that something was intelligent or at least did not mean to, but it could have been, just as easily as it could be some unintelligent happenstance. I suggest you relax and think more about adding to the conversation then putting forum participants in their place. You deny the universe was created, at some point it did not exist in it's current form?

I suggest you stop using words such as "create" and "intelligent" and "unintelligent" when you are trying to put forward a neutral viewpoint.

Those of us who know what we are talking about can see your real thoughts leaking out.

And just for the record i gave up a long time ago trying to convince people of my point of view. That would be disrespectful.

I do however argue the ridiculous tactics used by said people to get their point across.

 

[NeoSeeker]

I suggest you stop using words such as "create" and "intelligent" and "unintelligent" when you are trying to put forward a neutral viewpoint.

Those of us who know what we are talking about can see your real thoughts leaking out.

Along with your search for truth, I suggest you also seek humbleness and stop assuming. When magma escapes the Earth's crust, a volcano is created. Is that my attempt to assign intelligence to the event? Either that or you need to work on language comprehension.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Let's talk your assumptions.

I disagree. I am not an Atheist and I think if you (general term) don't believe in something like a greater force you have just as little of a chance of being right as theists. However, the Devil is in the details. While I'm sure there are Atheists out there who are sure there is no God/Higher Force, my understanding of Atheism is that they don't believe in any known or purported God for lack of evidence. And if I understand correctly, the no-God determination is subject to change if evidence ever appears. In other words, their standard for belief is set at a higher bar than the average faithful who are willing to go with a feeling or what was driven into their heads as children.

Their mistake is the common Atheist habit of proclaiming "there is no God". While they may mean there is no God as "you describe it", a more appropriate response is "I don't know" what is there. Just because it can't be seen, does not mean there is nothing. I feel there is something, I sense something, but I don't like calling it God because the term connotates a sentient being of which we have knowledge of with a set of rules and expectations when in reality we know nothing, if it is an intelligent force that can relate or interact with us in any meaningful way during our physical lives other than what we imagine.

It's not exactly a bad assumption when you tout crap like this:

I think everyone would agree that "something" created the universe.

Not to mention the MASSIVE assumption inherent in that statement.

-Q