Is it harmful to teach gay youths that homosexuality is a sin?

[Jeremiah]

The point is that I see many unwilling to take responsibility.

I know that because many think emotionally some concepts are hard to come to intelligently. There are many scientific studies about how a human brain wires its self under various conditions so that we can enjoy various activities. One does not just wake up one morning and think – I will enjoy being a concert violinist today. There are motor skills and esthetic that must be wired into the brain before a person can achieve the level of enjoyment in playing a violin at such an intricate level.

The truth is that the human brain must be so wired before a person can stand or walk. The brain must be wired before a human can differentiate sounds let alone enjoy music. I have never seen any scientific study that a human can enjoy any activity or anything until the brain has acquired a wiring to be able to register and appreciate it.

It is not a scientific mystery that various humans have become wired to enjoy a vast variety of things – including pain and a bazaar array of things done to other living things. Some brains have become wired to provide pleasure in murder.

Now if someone will show me a scientific study that says there are brains that come pre-wired for certain pleasures (such as homosexuality) and other brains come pre-wired for other pleasures and that such wiring transcends parents without such wiring – you certainly have my attention. I try to keep an open mind to things.

If anyone is interested in scientific studies of human brain development – I will be glad to pass on one or two.

And if you just want to be angry with me because I am skeptical that is your choice – but I will think you a bigot if you are surprised by others angry with you for your skepticism in other things.

If this forum is about free and open discussions then let’s have free and open discussions. But if this forum is about getting angry and making up accusations with those with whom some disagree. Then I challenge the humanity of this forum.

Zadok

Educate yourself, because those are some ridiculous notions you have.

Read...

Facts About Changing Sexual Orientation

http://www.davidmyers.org/davidmyers/assets/Sex-Orient-9e.pdf

 

[Jeremiah]

I would add one point here – once the brain has been wired for something – that wiring will exist until the brain is damaged. This is one of the great failings in our prison system. Even after the brain acquires “new wiring” the old will continue to exist. It is only by the exestuation of individual will that an individual can overcome the “old wiring”.

One objection I have to homosexuality – or for that manner anything that can be changed that is not – and the person refuses to take responsibility saying what cannot be changed. I would point out that just one homosexual changing proves that it can be done. Also anyone that is heterosexual changing to homosexual also proves that a person’s will can change their sexual orientation.

I honestly believe I could change my sexual orientation by my will. And I know many homosexuals also believe this – many times I have been encouraged to try homosexuality – now why would a homosexual ask me to try such a thing if there is no possibility that it would change my desire for it? What I find rather bazaar and even prejudice is when someone calls me a layer for expressing my opinion in the matter. Wow – where do you people come from?

Zadok

"Wow – where do you people come from?"

Reality.

 

[Jeremiah]

And what is reality? That individual will does not determine what we really are?

Zadok

"And what is reality?"

It's a place where you no longer have to live in denial about your bisexuality, Zadok. Where you, Zadok, can finally accept yourself for who you are, the way the Creator made you.

 

[Jeremiah]

Alas, the classic "The devil made me do it" response. Weather or not you "buy" something will not relinquish you from the consequences of its reality. You better be right because, with the resources at your disposal, you have no excuse for being wrong and you cannot afford to be wrong.

Alas, the classic believe-like-me-or-else response. Do you always use threats when people don't buy into your religious beliefs?

 

[Evandr]

Alas, the classic believe-like-me-or-else response. Do you always use threats when people don't buy into your religious beliefs?

A Threat? You are using the term "Threat" Incorrectly. To threaten you I would have to have some control of the outcome of your actions and then try to use that control to coerce you into submission through fear of what I might or might not do. I have no power over what happens to you nor would I want any. I have simply given you information that I believe carries a seriousness sufficient for me to be obligated to share it with you.

This is a forum, the term threat never carries any weight here, I cannot threaten you any more than you can threaten me. What you do or don't "buy" is irrelevant to me, it only matters to you. I'm just sayin' it like I believe it is and if you see that as a threat then maybe there is something stirring inside you that is trying to tell you that maybe you should listen more and talk less.

 

[McBell]

A Threat?

YEppers.

You are using the term "Threat" Incorrectly.

I disagree.

To threaten you I would have to have some control of the outcome of your actions and then try to use that control to coerce you into submission through fear of what I might or might not do. I have no power over what happens to you nor would I want any. I have simply given you information that I believe carries a seriousness sufficient for me to be obligated to share it with you.

Interesting selection of the definition.
You are aware that there is more than one definition of the word, right?

This is a forum, the term threat never carries any weight here, I cannot threaten you any more than you can threaten me. What you do or don't "buy" is irrelevant to me, it only matters to you. I'm just sayin' it like I believe it is and if you see that as a threat then maybe there is something stirring inside you that is trying to tell you that maybe you should listen more and talk less.

and yet you still use threats.
funny man you are.

 

[Evandr]

YEppers.

There are people in this world who can speak volumes with but a few words and then there are those like you who can ramble on for hours and say nothing at all. Tell me, do have the ability to say anything at all of intrinsic value to the issues at hand because if you can you have utterly failed to demonstrait it. Please try to offer something of value, some viewpoint worthy of consideration to these conversations. It gets tiring having to wade through all the verbal debris to find something worth responding to, still I respond, even to such as you hoping to spark you into an intellegent conversation, but, as of yet, I have failed.

 

[Smoke]

Alas, the classic believe-like-me-or-else response. Do you always use threats when people don't buy into your religious beliefs?

The funny part is, if being wrong got you damned, people like that would end up impaled on a flamethrower in the deepest, hottest ******** in hell.

 

[Jeremiah]

A Threat? You are using the term "Threat" Incorrectly. To threaten you I would have to have some control of the outcome of your actions and then try to use that control to coerce you into submission through fear of what I might or might not do. I have no power over what happens to you nor would I want any. I have simply given you information that I believe carries a seriousness sufficient for me to be obligated to share it with you.

This is a forum, the term threat never carries any weight here, I cannot threaten you any more than you can threaten me. What you do or don't "buy" is irrelevant to me, it only matters to you. I'm just sayin' it like I believe it is and if you see that as a threat then maybe there is something stirring inside you that is trying to tell you that maybe you should listen more and talk less.

I don't need a lecture on proper word use by someone who has grammatical errors in almost every sentence they type.

 

[Evandr]

I don't need a lecture on proper word use by someone who has grammatical errors in almost every sentence they type.

Really, WOW attacking my grammer! is that really the best you can do?

 

[jmvizanko]

Demonizing homosexuality has caused more problems that it has solved.

I haven't read all 19 pages, but am I the first person to respond to this post with "Wait a second, what problems has it solved????"

 

[sojourner]

I haven't read all 19 pages, but am I the first person to respond to this post with "Wait a second, what problems has it solved????"

It kept Rosie O'Donnell out of the ministry?
:run:

 

[jmvizanko]

It kept Rosie O'Donnell out of the ministry?
:run:

How is that a problem solved? She might have been kept out of the limelight had she joined the ministry!

 

[McBell]

There are people in this world who can speak volumes with but a few words and then there are those like you who can ramble on for hours and say nothing at all. Tell me, do have the ability to say anything at all of intrinsic value to the issues at hand because if you can you have utterly failed to demonstrait it. Please try to offer something of value, some viewpoint worthy of consideration to these conversations. It gets tiring having to wade through all the verbal debris to find something worth responding to, still I respond, even to such as you hoping to spark you into an intellegent conversation, but, as of yet, I have failed.

I shall make you a deal.
RIght after you demonstrate for the thread what you are asking af me in your above quoted post, I shall follow suit.

Are you up to the challenge?
Can you yourself actually produce a post the likes of what you are asking of me?
I shall wait patiently for you to produce such a post.

 

[McBell]

Really, WOW attacking my grammer! is that really the best you can do?

wow.
You do an awful lot of puffering yet add nothing to the discussion.
Yet you have the gall to whine about my posts?

Your hypocrisy is showing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Bull and bull. Thousands of testamonies of those who have been changed by God's power and I would like to see these studies.

The APA's website is a good starting point. They have all but denounced such practices because the evidence is very inconclusive on if they actually help or not. And no, repressing your sexual urges is not being "cured." And yes, there have been so many anti-gay crusaders who try to "cure" people who end up being exposed for being gay it hardly attracts any media attention. The last one, when the co-founder of NARTH was outed, it only caught attention because his male escort played a part in outing him, and because NARTH is one of the leading anti-gay organizations who crusade under the banner of psychology and psychiatry. You will notice on their site though, that there are not any leading or credible psychological organizations that endorse NARTH. That is because what they are doing does not have any scientific backing. Sexual orientation doesn't change.
Myself (back when I was a very devoted Baptist), I prayed and prayed and prayed for God to "cure" me, and that when I woke up the next morning I wouldn't want to be a girl anymore, or wouldn't have a constant curiosity about being sexual with other men. Well, either God didn't hear me, he didn't care, or it was nothing that needed to be fixed.

Really, WOW attacking my grammer! is that really the best you can do?

I agree. Attacking one's grammar is a low blow.

 

[Evandr]

wow.
You do an awful lot of puffering yet add nothing to the discussion.
Yet you have the gall to whine about my posts?

Your hypocrisy is showing.

OK, you have failed to say anything of value or support yourself in every respect, so go ahead and respond to this posting and I will let you have the last word - sort of a consolation prize

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Except that homosexuality isn't a sin. The Bible doesn't list it as sin. The Bible doesn't speak of homosexuality at all. That's because the ancients didn't have a concept of sexual preference. The homosexual acts listed in the Bible refer either to rape or pedophilia.

More importantly, Jesus never mentioned it as a sin, and he made it clear who get's into Heaven and who doesn't. I am very confident that if Jesus were to walk the earth today, he would sit with a group of gays long before he would sit with 90% of the Christians.

 

[Evandr]

I am very confident that if Jesus were to walk the earth today, he would sit with a group of gays long before he would sit with 90% of the Christians.

You might be right, Christ was well known for seeking out those who needed him most and the gay/lesbian community has great need of his council and direction that they might see their error and begin to keep his commandments - ALL of them that they too might prove worthy to live in the presence of God.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You might be right, Christ was well known for seeking out those who needed him most and the gay/lesbian community has great need of his council and direction that they might see their error and begin to keep his commandments - ALL of them that they too might prove worthy to live in the presence of God.

Well, I was referring Jesus' tendency to steer clear of hypocrites, and socialize with people who were more real and didn't twist religion to their own whims and glory.