Pope Benedict attacks government over Equality Bill

[The Neo Nerd]

It is still under the jurisdiction of UK Law. Should you be allowed to murder someone in your home because it is "your ground"?

LOL i knew someone would bring that up.

 

[emiliano]

[

quote=Smoke;2038442]Banning gay people from senior positions is not even a legitimate or honest concern. That's just typical Catholic dissembling. Senior positions in the Church are filled by clergy, and the government can't tell the Church whom to ordain. As for senior administrative positions in Catholic hospitals and so on, there's no legitimate reason to discriminate against gay people.

That’s what the OP says :”Pope Benedict XVI said the legislation "violates natural law" and could end the right of the Catholic Church to ban gay people from senior positions”
This could be a fabrication, although I think that this would have the consequence stated in this piece, read “The government said the bill, which is currently going through Parliament, would make the UK a fairer place” fair to whom? I agree with you on this: The government can't tell the Church whom to ordain, don’t leave out their right to set the criteria for staff selection or promotions, to employ who they see as compatible.

The Church employs Protestants, Jews, atheists, divorced and remarried people, unmarried heterosexuals living with partners, drunks, drug abusers, women who have had abortions, civil libertarians, people who don't believe in the Virgin Birth, people who don't believe in papal infallibility, Catholics who use birth control, Catholics who don't go to Confession, Catholics who don't go to Mass, and -- as we all know -- sexual predators. And the Church also employs gay people. They don't object to employing any of these people, but they do object to treating gay and transgender people -- and only gay and transgender people -- with equality and fairness.

But we are talking of people that have repented of their sins against God and the Church.
quote]
1Cr 5:7Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.
What the Church teaches is: 1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
It is their obstinate disobedience that makes then unsuitable, I don’t discount the fact that the OP is a lie, I don’t believe that the Pope intent to harm these people, he want them to repent and change (this is his duty), but homosexual are demanding that they be employ regardless.
The inspire word of God command us:
1Cr 5:7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us
Leaven stand for sin doesn’t it? This unnatural behaviour can be purge, and we can become a new unleavened lump

 

[Smoke]

That’s what the OP says :”Pope Benedict XVI said the legislation "violates natural law" and could end the right of the Catholic Church to ban gay people from senior positions”
This could be a fabrication

I'm not claiming Ratzinger didn't say it. I'm saying Ratzinger is a liar and a hypocrite.

But we are talking of people that have repented of their sins against God and the Church.

No, in most cases, we're not.

 

[Panda]

LOL i knew someone would bring that up.

And yet you know no counter to it so really you knew in advance your previous argument was ridiculous. Or do you have more to add?

 

[Panda]

[

That’s what the OP says :”Pope Benedict XVI said the legislation "violates natural law" and could end the right of the Catholic Church to ban gay people from senior positions”
This could be a fabrication, although I think that this would have the consequence stated in this piece, read “The government said the bill, which is currently going through Parliament, would make the UK a fairer place” fair to whom? I agree with you on this: The government can't tell the Church whom to ordain, don’t leave out their right to set the criteria for staff selection or promotions, to employ who they see as compatible.

Fair to everyone. It stops people being allowed to discriminate on things like race, gender, sexuality and age. Things that really have no bearing on your ability to do a job.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

And yet you know no counter to it so really you knew in advance your previous argument was ridiculous. Or do you have more to add?

When living people become offensive to the church then lets use that argument.

 

[emiliano]

I'm not claiming Ratzinger didn't say it. I'm saying Ratzinger is a liar and a hypocrite.
No, in most cases, we're not.

OH boy, you are a damaged one and a hard judge of other people. As you know the pope must judge according to the Bible and it is clear that homosexuals that do not repent are to be excluded of the Christian congregations, a Christian must not even have anything to do with such people. How are they going to work with them?
This is what the Epistle says about this issue:
1Cr 5:11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.
Christian are counsel not keep compony with unrepented homosexuals that do not renounce to their vices and obstinately disobey the counsel of the Church and refuse to change. Repentance is requirement for membership to Christianity and Salvation.
In any case this discussion is about the right of an institution to set the criteria of an employer to select their employees, the government should butt out of it.

 

[emiliano]

Fair to everyone. It stops people being allowed to discriminate on things like race, gender, sexuality and age. Things that really have no bearing on your ability to do a job.

The function of the Church is to call sinner to repentance and change. Homosexuality is a sin to a Catholic, what rights does the government has to dictate the requirements to work for them? If the Church considers homosexuality a sin and do not want to employ such persons it is their right as employers to employ whoever they think suitable. after all they are the ones that pay for their work, they know the kind of people they want to employ.
The government has every right as employ whoever they see fit to do the job they call applications for.
It’s fair that the government, a political organization dictate to the Church who to employ? Does the Church have the right to dictate politician who should they employ?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The function of the Church is to call sinner to repentance and change. Homosexuality is a sin to a Catholic, what rights does the government has to dictate the requirements to work for them? If the Church considers homosexuality a sin and do not want to employ such persons it is their right as employers to employ whoever they think suitable. after all they are the ones that pay for their work, they know the kind of people they want to employ.
The government has every right as employ whoever they see fit to do the job they call applications for.
It’s fair that the government, a political organization dictate to the Church who to employ? Does the Church have the right to dictate politician who should they employ?

It is the democratic right of EU to lay down employment laws covering equality issues. If this means that some view points or religions are out of step so be it.
However if they fall foul of those laws they will be prosecuted. Laws are not optional.

There was a time when the Roman Church was the arbiter on moral issues with the force of law; it enforced them with all its power up to and including execution by burning at the stake. This is no longer the case.

Today the Roman Church is one amongst many organisations and pressure groups, trying to ensure its point of view is heard. However it no longer has any legal authority; nor is it accepted as the moral authority.

 

[Panda]

The function of the Church is to call sinner to repentance and change. Homosexuality is a sin to a Catholic, what rights does the government has to dictate the requirements to work for them? If the Church considers homosexuality a sin and do not want to employ such persons it is their right as employers to employ whoever they think suitable. after all they are the ones that pay for their work, they know the kind of people they want to employ.
The government has every right as employ whoever they see fit to do the job they call applications for.
It’s fair that the government, a political organization dictate to the Church who to employ? Does the Church have the right to dictate politician who should they employ?

Of course the Government has the right to tell the Church what to do. In the exact same way they have the right to tell any business, charity, non-profit organisation what to do. Just because the church is religious does not give them any special protection from the law. If the church isn't happy then like any organisation they have the choice to pull out of the UK. Please not think that the Catholic Church is not the same a a Catholic person.

 

[Panda]

When living people become offensive to the church then lets use that argument.

Yes it was extreme but both were examples of you saying that you should be exempt from the law because you "own" the ground. Really I am sure you can see that you are just avoiding the issue because you have no counter to it.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

I'm sorry, but i believe the church has the right to hire who they want on their own grounds.

I've said it before an i'll say it again, if we don't want the church to try and run the government then we shouldn't want the government to run the church.

I understand and respect the offense that people are taking to this topic, i to see the churches anti-gay sentiments as bigoted and ignorant.

It seems i'm just repeating myself. So i'll leave my argument where it is.

-Q

 

[Panda]

I'm sorry, but i believe the church has the right to hire who they want on their own grounds.

I've said it before an i'll say it again, if we don't want the church to try and run the government then we shouldn't want the government to run the church.

I understand and respect the offense that people are taking to this topic, i to see the churches anti-gay sentiments as bigoted and ignorant.

It seems i'm just repeating myself. So i'll leave my argument where it is.

-Q

The government isn't interfering with the Church. This is a law for all UK employers. Why should someone's religious beliefs be cause of exemption from the law?

 

[Smoke]

OH boy, you are a damaged one and a hard judge of other people.

Oh boy, are you one to talk. The Pope lies. He makes obviously hypocritical statements. It's not a great leap from there to conclude that he's a liar and a hypocrite.

As you know the pope must judge according to the Bible and it is clear that homosexuals that do not repent are to be excluded of the Christian congregations, a Christian must not even have anything to do with such people. How are they going to work with them?

The same way they work with countless other unrepentant "sinners" who don't meet the qualifications to remain in the good graces of the Catholic Church. You can't possibly be so stupid that you can't see that. You just close your eyes to the obvious so you don't have to be honest, even with yourself, about your bigotry and hatred toward gay people. In that respect, you're a great deal like Ratzinger.

You people are so blinded by your own willful bigotry and ignorance that you don't just see homosexuality as a sin; you see it as the sin. If there were a hell, it would open wide to receive the souls of the pious.

 

[Smoke]

The government isn't interfering with the Church. This is a law for all UK employers.

Actually, despite all this huffing and puffing about the government interfering with the Church, it's really the Church that's trying to interfere with the government.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Pope Benedict has proven himself incompetent in almost every aspect of his office. This little fiasco is an empty shout into the wind from someone who barely has a voice. He is to the Church what Bush Jr. was to the American Presidency. He is being openly destructive, obstructing justice, and only capable of incoherent babble when he speaks publicly.

He needs to either resign or hide in his quarters until he dies, because if you're not ready to change and adapt to the needs and concerns of your constituents, you're already dead.

 

[Smoke]

Pope Benedict has proven himself incompetent in almost every aspect of his office. This little fiasco is an empty shout into the wind from someone who barely has a voice. He is to the Church what Bush Jr. was to the American Presidency. He is being openly destructive, obstructing justice, and only capable of incoherent babble when he speaks publicly.

He needs to either resign or hide in his quarters until he dies, because if you're not ready to change and adapt to the needs and concerns of your constituents, you're already dead.

Did you see his response to the clergy sexual abuse scandal in Ireland? He's decided to crack down on liberals and proclaim the Year of the Priest. His utter incompetence would greatly concern me if I gave a **** about the Catholic Church. However, my feelings about the Catholic Church are such that I hope he lives to be a hundred and ten years old, burning his empire down around himself the whole time.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Did you see his response to the clergy sexual abuse scandal in Ireland? He's decided to crack down on liberals and proclaim the Year of the Priest. His utter incompetence would greatly concern me if I gave a **** about the Catholic Church. However, my feelings about the Catholic Church are such that I hope he lives to be a hundred and ten years old, burning his empire down around himself the whole time.

Yes, that's why I don't think that Benedict can redeem himself. You can't come back from this. And it's not just Ireland, but other European countries as well.

I care deeply about the Church - it could be a light for hope in the world, but the church leadership is hanging on to destructive practices and theologies.

To the great misfortune of the Church, there will not be significant change for about a hundred years, unless there is a massive shift in leadership style.

 

[emiliano]

The government isn't interfering with the Church. This is a law for all UK employers. Why should someone's religious beliefs be cause of exemption from the law?

I thought that this was a bill to be considered by the parliament, not yet a law; and I repeat what I said earlier with the current political changes in the UK this bill has very little chances of success, plus the government has more than enough important problems than to dictate employers criteria for employment. Also and as I said the church could resort to reserve these senior position for their clerics. Being gay is not a skill or qualification for any job.

 

[emiliano]

Oh boy, are you one to talk. The Pope lies. He makes obviously hypocritical statements. It's not a great leap from there to conclude that he's a liar and a hypocrite.


The same way they work with countless other unrepentant "sinners" who don't meet the qualifications to remain in the good graces of the Catholic Church. You can't possibly be so stupid that you can't see that. You just close your eyes to the obvious so you don't have to be honest, even with yourself, about your bigotry and hatred toward gay people. In that respect, you're a great deal like Ratzinger.

You people are so blinded by your own willful bigotry and ignorance that you don't just see homosexuality as a sin; you see it as the sin. If there were a hell, it would open wide to receive the souls of the pious.

Like I said you have made yourself the judge of other people’s conduct, the Pope is doing what the scriptures say that he must go.
I told you before God can not be deceive but the Pope and the Church can be deceive, and please ease on the insults, if you want to get personal I respond.
I know what the Bible teaches, if a homosexual obstinately refuses to repent it can not be Christian or work for them in a senior position.
In the scriptures that I cited everybody can see it.
I don’t want unrepented homosexuals in senior position or in the congregation of Christians, as for “you're a great deal like Ratzinger” you may be right he is a Christian and so am I, I tray to obey the tenets of my faith. Homosexuality is a sin to Christianity and I can not counsel or encourage any Christian with such a vice to remain in sin.
What is it that we are ignorant of?
1Cr 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
1Cr 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
1Cr 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
Act 17:30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,
Rev 2:21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent.