Was Jesus killed on the cross?

[fallingblood]

This article also mentioned that there are actually no references in the Bible at all to anyone worshipping the Holy Spirit, which would of course prove that the Holy Spirit is God, rather, there are references to how people prayed to God while possesed by the Spirit, or while it was dwelling within them.

Just because there is no reference to people worshipping the Holy Spirit means absolutely nothing. It does show that the Bible does equate God with the Holy Spirit though.

 

[logician]

There are a number of passages in the NT where the gospel writers had the supposed Jesus alone and talking. Who was recording these comments? Obviously these were made up stories by the gospel writers, not an actual true account of a real man's life.

 

[Shine_0f_sun]

That may be true, but it is besides the point. Christians will quote verses, such as John 3:16: For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son.., as well as the virgin birth stories (where the Bible is quite clear that Jesus is the literal son of God) to prove their point.

I'm not saying that it is true; however, that is the belief that Christians have and that is the reason that they believe Jesus is divine.

My Response: I already proved that Bible have no any Actual Son of God!!

Now few christian can tell Jesus is "Only begotten" son!

We See Most of english bible never used "begotten" words. Espically New international version, Revised standard version etc. It only added in kings james version!!

Why they added it there?? Its very clear they added it to prove their false trinity!

According to Bible King David also was Begotten Son of God, so How Jesus is divine?

"..The lord hath said unto me (David): 'Thou art MY Son: this day have i begotten thee"[psalms 2:7]

So David is also God's begotten son. The meaning of "Begotten Son of God" is not literal but metaphorical

lets see another another point:

really begotten Son mentioned as divine?

Not!!

"By Faith Abraham, when he was tired, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promise offered up his only begotten son"[Hebrews 11:17]

Hebrews 11:17 says issac was only begotten son of Abraham BUT WHAT ABOUT ISHMAEL?

We come to know from Bible that Ishmael was firstborn begotten Son of Abraham!

Bible clearly says Hagar was wife of Abraham.

"..And (Sarah) gave her (Hager) to her husband Abram TO BE HIS WIFE"[Genesis 16:3]

The name Ishmael was also chosen by God Himself

"And the Angel of the Lord said unto Hagar: "Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his NAME ISHMAEL, because the Lord heard thy affliction"[Genesis 16:11]

Abraham prayed to God for a Son and God heard his prayer and Gave him Ishmael!

Ishmael means in hebrew "God hears"

So, How you can tell Issac was only Begotten Son of Abraham???

So we see according to Bible Begotten Son never meantimned as divine!!

My Response about Jesus virgin born:

About Jesus Virgin born answer you will get in Quran.

THE QUR'AN REPEATEDLY REMINDS US THAT ADAM, THE FIRST HUMAN BEING, WAS BORN WITH NEITHER A HUMAN MOTHER NOR A HUMAN FATHER.

THEREFOR JESUS MIRACULOUS BIRTH AFFORDS HIM NO HIGHER STANDING OR PRESUMED PARTNERSHIP WITH GOD.

If God can creat Adam without Father and Mother then why God can not creat Jesus without A Father???

"The similitude of Jesus before God is as that Adam; He created Adam from dust, then to him "Be" and he was"[Quran 3:59]

Even bible have another one name who had no Father or Mother!!

His name is Melchizedek. See it Hebrews 7:1-3

"Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God" [hebrews 7:3]

Jesus is greater than Melchizedek???

So we see Jesus virgin born never mean Jesus is divine or high more than other prophets!

 

[Tanuki]

I agree the account of the Bible isn't accurate or perfect, but I'm not inclined to agree the Quran is either. The Quran also has questionable suras, and in fact a specific ayat now called the "Satanic verses" was ommited from the Quran because they were questionable. Some Quran scholars question all the non-Meccan surahs.

The 'satanic verses' was originally introduced to discredit the Shia after the death of Imam Hussein by Yazid! The Qur'an itself states that it is free from error and that Allah (swt) will keep it that way, as such no Muslim could accept that any part was left out.

 

[fallingblood]

My Response: I already proved that Bible have no any Actual Son of God!!

Actually, no you didn't. The fact is, Luke makes very clear that Jesus is the literal Son of God. You can argue that he is not; however, the Bible is clear that Jesus is divine, and the literal Son of God.

I do not hold onto that belief, but the Bible does, and Christianity does as well.

We See Most of english bible never used "begotten" words. Espically New international version, Revised standard version etc. It only added in kings james version!!

Look at the Greek. It is closer to saying that Jesus is the one and only son of God. Either way, it is quite clear that Jesus is the literal son of God.

Why they added it there?? Its very clear they added it to prove their false trinity!

Not really. Mistranslations happen quite often. There are even Christians who do not really care for the translation to begotten as it even poses problems with the idea of the trinity. However, if you want a more correct translation, it still support the idea of the Trinity (which again, I don't hold to be true, but it is a Christian belief that they support with the Bible).


The case is very clear though. Jesus was born of Mary and God. Making him the literal Son of God. Luke is very clear about this. One can deny it all that they want; however, the story was meant to be taken literally.

You may disagree that Jesus is the literal Son of God, but you won't be able to prove it with the Bible, as the Bible is clear enough with the idea that Jesus is divine and the Son of God.

 

[Shine_0f_sun]

Actually, no you didn't.

Lol I already did. Read my previous post!

The fact is, Luke makes very clear that Jesus is the literal Son of God. You can argue that he is not; however, the Bible is clear that Jesus is divine, and the literal Son of God

where Luke makes very clear that Jesus is the literal Son of God?? Even Jesus never said that he is literal Son of God! Jesus said my Father is also your Father!

"Go instead to my brothers and tell them"i am not returning MY Father and YOUR Father, to MY God and YOUR God"[john "20:17]

You never read this verse?

Look at the Greek. It is closer to saying that Jesus is the one and only son of God. Either way, it is quite clear that Jesus is the literal son of God.

Lol only son or begotten son is never same. Begotten always mentioned where have sex relation!! Indeed they do blaspheme who say God have begotten son!! Read my previous post. There i proved that Jesus never divine...

You may disagree that Jesus is the literal Son of God, but you won't be able to prove it with the Bible, as the Bible is clear enough with the idea that Jesus is divine and the Son of God.

I always disagree that Jesus is the literal Son of God CAUSE ITS A HUGH LIE! And indeed I am always able to prove their blaspheme... Jesus never divine.

In hebrew Son of God another meaning in "Servant of God"

In acts 3:13 Peter clearly said, JESUS WAS "SERVANT OF GOD"

 

[fallingblood]

Lol I already did. Read my previous post!

I did, and then I responded showing why you did not prove your point.

where Luke makes very clear that Jesus is the literal Son of God?? Even Jesus never said that he is literal Son of God! Jesus said my Father is also your Father!

I mentioned this before, but here it goes again. Luke 1: 26-38 makes it very clear that Jesus is the literal Son of God.

You never read this verse?

I've read the verse; however, John also makes it quite clear that Jesus was God. The opening verses of the Gospel make it quite clear that Jesus was divine in some matter. More so, looking through the Gospel of John, it becomes quite clear that Jesus was considered the Son of God or God himself. Divine either way.

Lol only son or begotten son is never same. Begotten always mentioned where have sex relation!! Indeed they do blaspheme who say God have begotten son!! Read my previous post. There i proved that Jesus never divine...

Actually you didn't. The actual Greek make the verse quite clear.

I always disagree that Jesus is the literal Son of God CAUSE ITS A HUGH LIE! And indeed I am always able to prove their blaspheme... Jesus never divine.

Saying that you prove something is not the same as proving it. You have yet proven that the Bible does not say that Jesus is divine. That is what we are talking about.

In hebrew Son of God another meaning in "Servant of God"

However, when the Bible states that Mary was impregnated by God, the only logical conclusion to make is that the Bible is saying that Jesus is the literal son of God.

 

[Yaqub]

However, when the Bible states that Mary was impregnated by God, the only logical conclusion to make is that the Bible is saying that Jesus is the literal son of God.

The Bible never says that Mary was "impregnated by God", that is simply your imagination running wild. Holy is God, how can anyone attribute such a blasphemy to Him?

 

[fallingblood]

The Bible never says that Mary was "impregnated by God", that is simply your imagination running wild. Holy is God, how can anyone attribute such a blasphemy to Him?

Luke does state this. The Holy Spirit is equivalent with God (as I've already posted a link to that explains this). Luke states that the God will come upon Mary and overshadow her, where she will then become pregnant. Luke then states that the child will be the Son of God. It was meant quite literally in this instance.

 

[Shine_0f_sun]

I did, and then I responded showing why you did not prove your point.

You did nothing! Read this page first post of mine! Still you are unable to answer all question of mine!

I mentioned this before, but here it goes again. Luke 1: 26-38 makes it very clear that Jesus is the literal Son of God.

You talking unto rubbish. Luke 1:26-38 have no proof that Jesus is the literal Son of God! My book nobel Quran says better than Luke about Jesus virgin birth

"Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! GOD hath chosen thee and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nation"[The Quran 3:42]

"0 Mary! Worship Thy Lord devoutly: Prostrate thyself, and bow down(in prayer) with those who bow down."[The Quran 3:43]

"The angel said, O Mary, God gives you good news: a Word from Him whose name is 'The messiah (christ) Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and his Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to GOD [The Quran 3:45]

"He will speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he will be one of the righteous"[The Quran 3:46]

Mary said "0 my Lord, how shall i have a son, when no man has touched me?"[Quran 3:47]

Angel said "GOD thus creates whatever he wills. To have anything done, GOD simply says to it, 'Be', and it is.[Quran 3:47]

"And God will teach him(jesus) the book and wisdom, the law and the Gospel"[Quran 3:48]

"Relate in the Book (the story) of Mary, when she withdrew from her family to place of Earth"[Quran, 19:16]

"She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then I sent MY Angel, and He appeared befor her as a man in all respects"[Quran, 19:17]

"Mary said: "I seek refuge from thee to ((God)) most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost dear God"[Quran, 19:18]

"He(Gabriel) said: "Nay, i am only a messenger thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the GIFT OF A HOLY SON"[Quran, 19:19]

"Mary said: "How shall I have a Son, seeing that no man has touched me, and i am not uncharte"[Quran, 19:20]

"Angel said "So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: (I Wish) to appoint him(Jesus) as a Sign unto men and Mercy from I': It is a matter (so) decreed"[Quran, 19:21]

"So she(Mary) conceived him, and she retired with him to a remote place"[Quran, 19:22]

Quran have detail story about Jesus Virgin Birth. Quran also Said God gave Holy spirit to Jesus but its not mean Jesus is God!

"..i gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear signs and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit.."[The Quran, 2:87]

"And Zacharia and John, and Jesus and Elias, all the ranks of the righteous"[The Quran, 6:85]

If God gave Holy spirit to Jesus, its not mean Jesus is God or Jesus is divine! Even according to bible God have Evil spirit!

"Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, AND AN EVIL SPIRIT FROM THE LORD tormented him"[1 Samuel 16:14]

"Saul's attendants said to him, "see, AN EVIL SPIRIT FROM GOD is tormenting you"[1 samuel 16:15]

Lol!!!

I've read the verse; however, John also makes it quite clear that Jesus was God. The opening verses of the Gospel make it quite clear that Jesus was divine in some matter. More so, looking through the Gospel of John, it becomes quite clear that Jesus was considered the Son of God or God himself.Divine either way.

You read what? John 1:1 is a mistranslation in english bible. Read my Response about John 1:1 with detail proof in
"Did Jesus says he is God" topic!

There is nothing clear or Nothing proof that Jesus is God or Divine...

Actually you didn't. The actual Greek make the verse quite clear.

There nothing is clear, Only Son and begotten son never equal!! Go dictionary and read what the meaning of begotten!!!

However, when the Bible states that Mary was impregnated by God, the only logical conclusion to make is that the Bible is saying that Jesus is the literal son of God.

MARY IMPREGNATE BY GOD????? do you mean God did sex with Mary?? Do you have mentally problem or are you really brainwashed?? Seems your mentality is so poor or you away from logic!!!

Where Bible says Mary was impregnated by God?? Where? Post here reference from any bible! Challenging you!!

Dude you talking nonsense! Jesus is never the literal Son of God, Nor he is God!

 

[Breathe]

Jesus is never the literal son of God, nor he is God!

I've always taken the son of God to mean something akin to "righteous man", "prophet" or "teacher", the term son implying not biological relation but spiritual closeness.

For example, a Muslim is the brother to another Muslim, even if they have different parents.

That's my take on it anyway.

 

[fallingblood]

You did nothing! Read this page first post of mine! Still you are unable to answer all question of mine!

That is very possible, but honestly, it is hard to actually read everything you're saying. My attention span simply is not long enough to actually pay attention throughout the entirety of the your posts simply because of the way you post. However, I have shown that you were wrong.

You talking unto rubbish. Luke 1:26-38 have no proof that Jesus is the literal Son of God! My book nobel Quran says better than Luke about Jesus virgin birth

Honestly, in this case, I don't care what the Quran says. That is not what is being discussed. What is being discussed is what the Bible says. And Luke makes it very clear that Jesus is the literal son of God.

You read what? John 1:1 is a mistranslation in english bible. Read my Response about John 1:1 with detail proof in
"Did Jesus says he is God" topic!

There is nothing clear or Nothing proof that Jesus is God or Divine...

So you read Greek then? Or you have someone translating the Greek for you? Honestly, if you don't, then I don't really care to argue this point with you. Especially since Luke is clear enough anyway.

There nothing is clear, Only Son and begotten son never equal!! Go dictionary and read what the meaning of begotten!!!

Did I say that they equaled? Not at all. And the Greek is quite clear. More so, the intention of the verse is quite clear in referring that Jesus is the literal son of God.

MARY IMPREGNATE BY GOD????? do you mean God did sex with Mary?? Do you have mentally problem or are you really brainwashed?? Seems your mentality is so poor or you away from logic!!!

So instead of actually debating what I said, you are attacking me? Not a very good sign of debating.

More so, I never said that God had sex with Mary. That was not necessary as God supposedly is not bound by human standards. However, Luke is clear that Mary was impregnated by God miraculously, without sexual intercourse. Surely a God who is all powerful would be able to do this, or are you doubting Gods powers?

Where Bible says Mary was impregnated by God?? Where? Post here reference from any bible! Challenging you!!

Luke 1:26-38. It is very clear there.

Dude you talking nonsense! Jesus is never the literal Son of God, Nor he is God!

Incorrect. The Christian view is that he is the literal son of God and God incarnate. The Gospels do support this position.

I'm not saying it is true, as I do not believe it to be true. However, the fact is that the Gospel writers did believe it to be true.

 

[fallingblood]

I've always taken the son of God to mean something akin to "righteous man", "prophet" or "teacher", the term son implying not biological relation but spiritual closeness.

For example, a Muslim is the brother to another Muslim, even if they have different parents.

That's my take on it anyway.

It does in many cases. However, Jesus is unique in this matter according to Christianity. For instance, the virgin birth stories do make it quite clear that he was considered the literal son of God.

 

[Breathe]

It does in many cases. However, Jesus is unique in this matter according to Christianity. For instance, the virgin birth stories do make it quite clear that he was considered the literal son of God.

There is the whole argument over whether or not it says 'virgin' or 'young (unmarried) woman' though.

Meh, it's no wonder I couldn't stay a Christian.

 

[roundsquare]

You mean the narrators of the Bible, more specifically, the anonymous narrators of the Gospels of the New Testament, narrate that Jesus "gave up the ghost". However, the words of Jesus (peace be upon him) as quoted in the synoptic Gospels, inform us that the Sign of Jonas will be fulfilled in his case also, i.e., that like Jonas, he will survive being killed, and will be alive, like Jonas, for three days and nights, but instead of being alive in the belly of the whale, the only difference is that Jesus will be alive in the heart of the earth.

Hi, since I'm a noob here I should probably set out by disclosing my religious affiliation. I'm a Christian, as such I'm convinced that Jesus was crucified as maintained by the gospels (Mat 20:19, Mat 27:26, Mat 27:35, Mat 26:2, Mat 28:5, Mar 15:24, Mar 15:25 etc), and on the 3rd day he rose again as he himself said he would (Luke 24:7, Joh 2:19-21).

However, the words of Jesus (peace be upon him) as quoted in the synoptic Gospels, inform us that the Sign of Jonas will be fulfilled in his case also, i.e., that like Jonas, he will survive being killed, and will be alive, like Jonas, for three days and nights, but instead of being alive in the belly of the whale, the only difference is that Jesus will be alive in the heart of the earth.

Oh yes the sign of Jonah a favorite Muslim retreat in their endeavor to challenge a well attested historical event. The crucifixion of Jesus the Christ. (Despite it being a favorite Muslim argument our Muslim friend here somehow misspells the name of the key character Jonah referring to him as "Jonas", maybe he was thinking about the Jonas brothers at the time). Lets have a closer look at how Jesus wanted us to understand the sign of Jonah as it related to Him shall we. I've pasted the relevant passage below:

But he (i.e. Jesus (the good guy)) replied to them (i.e. Pharisees (the bad guys)), "An evil and adulterous generation craves a sign. Yet no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For just as Jonah was in the stomach of the sea creature for three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.
(Mat 12:39-40 ISV)

Lets note some things here:

1. Jesus says that the only Sign this generation of Jews (the generation of his day) will be given is the sign of Jonah.
2. How could the Jews be asking for signs didn't Jesus perform many other signs priorly; they really had some serious faith issues.

Okay since this was a sign to the Jews , the Jews had to witness the sign, because it was a sign "to them". If the sign Jesus was referring to was being alive in the tomb for three days and three nights then this would not be a sign to the Jews because no Jew witnessed how he was alive in the tomb (the Tomb was secured and sealed) Here's the relevant scripture:and said, "Sir, we remember how that impostor said while he was still alive, 'After three days I will be raised.' Therefore, order the tomb to be secured until the third day, or his disciples may go and steal him and then tell the people, 'He has been raised from the dead.' Then the last deception would be worse than the first one."
(Mat 27:63-64 ISV)

So, since the tomb was secured and was being closely guarded by Roman officers no Jew would enter the tomb and witness how Jesus was alive in the tomb. Therefore we must conclude that being alive in the tomb was not the sign of Jonah that Jesus said would be given to the Jews. What then was the sign of Jonah? Well Jonah's ordeal in the sea creature's stomach entailed two parts the duration of his ordeal and the actual events that took place in the sea creature's stomach. Jesus clearly was referring to the duration, note the underlined portion of the verse: "For just as Jonah was in the stomach of the sea creature for three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights" Basically Jesus was telling the Jews that just as Jonah spent three days and three nights in the sea creature's stomach that is how long He'll remain in the tomb. He doesn't say anything about his state in the tomb, but there is clear evidence to suggest that he was DEAD in the tomb. "Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise.
(Luk 24:7 KJV)" Jesus said he would rise on the third day, what would he rise from? "From the dead" this is the only way he could rise, he didn't rise to heaven on the third day because 8 days later he was still on earth (Joh 20:26-27) to further ground this point look at the next passage:
"And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost. "
(Luk 23:46 KJV)
Jesus commended his spirit into the father' hands, his spirit/life/(life force)/soul left his body and he died , the spirit is what keep the body functional. "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
(Gen 2:7 KJV) Jesus died on the cross for all intends and purposes.


So the sign to the Jews was his resurrection that is his emergence from the tomb and his eventual ascension, this is the only thing the Jews could witness. "And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. "
(1Co 15:4-7 KJV)


Therefore it stands to reason that this was the sign of Jonah that Jesus alluded to, that he would spent three days and three nights in the tomb like Jonah did in the belly of the sea creature and that he would come out of it again just like Jonah came out of the sea creature. In summary the bible records Jesus died on the cross, and that he rose on the third day even as the angel of the Lord said And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
(Mat 28:5-6 KJV)

further proof that Jesus died:

Mat 16:21 From that time on, Jesus began to show his disciples that he would have to go to Jerusalem and suffer a great deal because of the elders, the high priests, and the scribes. Then he would be killed, but on the third day he would be raised.

He (Jesus) said, "The Son of Man must suffer a great deal and be rejected by the elders, the high priests, and the scribes. Then he must be killed, but on the third day he will be raised."
(Luk 9:22 ISV)

Here Jesus admits that he would be killed and rise on the third day.

Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
(Rev 5:12 KJV)

Jesus is the Lamb of God (Joh 1:29 KJV), that was slain for the forgiveness of sins.

In light of the above scriptural proofs to keep on arguing that Jesus didn't die according would be blatant arrogance and a bold denial of what has so firmly been established beyond any reasonable doubt in Scripture. thank you. Over to you.

 

[roundsquare]

why on earth is everyone talking about what "the son of God" means isn't this a thread dealing with the crucifixion? I am confused.

 

[roundsquare]

Even the Qur'an says Jesus DIED : "Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive! Such was Jesus, son of Mary [this is] a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt," (Surah 19, Maryam, Mary: 33,34).

 

[Shine_0f_sun]

However,I have shown that you were wrong.

You have shown what??? Do not make me laugh!!!

Honestly, in this case, I don't care what the Quran says. That is not what is being discussed. What is being discussed is what the Bible says. And Luke makes it very clear that Jesus is the literal son of God.

where Luke makes clear that Jesus is the Literal son of God? Luke 1:26 never mentioned "Literal son of God" it mentioned About Virgin born. Before i made clear that Jesus virgin born never can make him great. Before already God created Adam and Melchzadek(hebrews 7:1) without Father or Mother. So its so easy for God to creat Jesus without Father! Bible made us clear that Jesus was "Servant of God" as like Issac, Jacob, moses in in acts 3:13

So you read Greek then? Or you have someone translating the Greek for you?

Read my response about John 1:1:

First point: John 1:1 never came from Jesus himself!

Second point: john 1:1 is a mistranslation of english bible!

According to Kings james version..

"In the beginning was the Word,& the Word was with God & the Word was God"[John 1:1]

Now i wanna give you correct translation according to Greek Bible..

"En arche en ho lagos, kai ho logos en pros TON THEON, kai THEOS en ho lagos"


My question why both not Ton theon? Why 1st God is Ton theon and 2nd God is theos? Meaning both never equal!

The 1st "God" is Greek "ton theon" and the 2nd God is "theos"

That mean, the two "God" cannot be swapped, they are not equal

In other words The first God is another person than the second God
(Exodus 7:1)

"Ton theon" means "The GOD" while "theos" means "a god" or "devine"

the correct translation is in NWT bible. You may check NWT bible john 1:1

"in beginning the Word was, & the Word was with GOD, & the Word was a god"

"God" mean almighty Real God and "god" mean a great man aka messenger of God

And in the old testament, the Lord said unto Moses:

"See, i have made thee 'a god' to pharoah"[Exodus 7:1]


Why do you use a small 'g' for 'GOD' when referring to Moses?

In greek theos mean "god" not "God"


In local greek bible Exodus 7:1 also is "theos" but they translated in english as "god"

My Question why this dirty game? Why you falsely try to prove your lie trinity

"I have said, ye are gods(Elohim) and all of you are the children of the most high"[pslam 82:6]

Its actually "Gods" which in hebrew bible Elohim. But they translated there gods!
Psalm 82:6 mentioned every messenger of God called as God and there God meaning a great person aka messenger.

note: The trinitarian liars who translated the Bible into English play dirty tricks about capitalizing and lowering the "g" in "God" to prove their trinity lie, while they fully know that it is THE SAME WORD USED FOR ALL!

Honestly, if you don't, then I don't really care to argue this point with you. Especially since Luke is clear enough anyway.

Luke did nothing!!! Quote here verse please!!

Did I say that they equaled? Not at all. And the Greek is quite clear. More so, the intention of the verse is quite clear in referring that Jesus is the literal son of God.

before you said Jesus is God what meaning They are equal and there nothing is clear that Jesus is the literal son of God! Prove it

So instead of actually debating what I said, you are attacking me? Not a very good sign of debating.

Dude I am not attacking you but I said you the truth that you talking unto rubbish!!

More so, I never said that God had sex with Mary. That was not necessary as God supposedly is not bound by human standards.

You said Jesus is the begotten son of God. We use this word where have a sex relation son. Also before you said Mary was impregnated by God!! There you used "By God" not "By Holy spirit" indeed you abused to God!!!

However, Luke is clear that Mary was impregnated by God miraculously, without sexual intercourse. Surely a God who is all powerful would be able to do this, or are you doubting Gods powers?
Luke 1:26-38. It is very clear there.Incorrect.

Luke 1:26-38 and Quran 3:42-49 very clear about Jesus virgin birth. You can tell Mary was impregnated by holy Spirit what was totally miraculously and God commanded to Holy spirit for it.

The Christian view is that he is the literal son of God and God incarnate. The Gospels do support this position.

yes its the christian view and their false belief!! According to Jesus teaching Our Father is only one meaning His Father also our Father!

"And do not call anyone on earth 'Father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven"[Matthew 23:9]

I'm not saying it is true,as I do not believe it to be true. However,the fact is that the Gospel writers did believe it to be true

you believe it or not BUT TRUTH IS VERY CLEAR MORE THAN ERRORS!

 

[roundsquare]

The fact that Jesus was on the cross for a relatively short time would suggest to some that he could have in fact survived.

The kind of physical trauma Jesus experienced (being flogged severely, the blood loss that must surely have followed, his feet and hands being pierced with nails causing more bleeding) leading up to the crucifixion and on the cross would normally kill anyone within the time frame Jesus hung on the cross. Jesus hung on the cross which was 6 hours, roughly 9am to 3pm. (It was from noon to 3 that everything was dark).

It was nine in the morning when they crucified him. The written notice of the charge against him read, "The king of the Jews." They crucified two bandits with him, one on his right and the other on his left. Then the Scripture was fulfilled that says, "He was counted with criminals." Those who passed by kept insulting him, shaking their heads, and saying, "Ha! You who were going to destroy the sanctuary and rebuild it in three days- save yourself and come down from the cross!" In the same way the high priests, along with the scribes, were also making fun of him among themselves. They kept saying, "He saved others but can't save himself! Let the Christ, the king of Israel, come down from the cross now so that we may see it and believe." Even the men who were crucified with him kept insulting him. At twelve noon, darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon. At three o'clock Jesus cried out with a loud voice, "Eloi, eloi, lema sabachthani?", which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" When some of the people standing there heard this, they said, "Listen! He's calling for Elijah!" So someone ran and soaked a sponge in some sour wine. Then he put it on a stick and offered Jesus a drink, saying, "Wait! Let's see if Elijah comes to take him down!" Then Jesus gave a loud cry and breathed his last.
(Mar 15:25-37 ISV)

Also, looking at the idea that Jesus bleed after being stabbed with a spear would suggest that he was not dead at that time as a corpse does not bleed

Note what the following link says about clotting on death:

If a big vein is cut after death, e.g. during an autopsy, the blood runs ;
pagesperso-orange.fr/gira.cadouarn/english/medicine/hematology.htm

Compare this with what the Gospel John recounts:

Instead, one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and blood and water immediately came out.
(Joh 19:34 ISV)

The link goes on to says the following:

If there is no wound in the walls of the blood vessel, the blood will remain liquid for several days, after which it starts to decompose.

When the soldier pierced Jesus' side he must have struck a previously intact major blood vessel, causing blood to run out of his side like the link I provided said happens when a big vein is struck during an autopsy.

And not to mention the large quantity of aloe and myrrh that was supposedly used to bury him, which were known to have healing powers,

Aloe may well have some remedial powers but I strongly question that it can revive a dead man. In any case the bible as far as I'm aware doesn't say that Mary was intending to prepare Jesus body with aloe, here is the relevant passage:

When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices to go and anoint Jesus.
(Mar 16:1 ISV)

Now what also has to be noted is that the soldiers confirmed that Jesus had died:

But when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.
(Joh 19:33 ISV)

Because the body is suspended from the arms on a cross, the only way a breath could be taken was by lifting the body upward--by pushing downward on the nails in the hands and feet. Therefore if the soldiers decided it was time for the crucified person to die they would break his/her legs, thus making it impossible for the person to lift him/herself up, so when this was done the person being unable to lift him/herself up in order to breath eventually suffocated or died through severe traumatic shock and fat embolism. after the soldiers confirmed that the other two men that Jesus had been crucified with had not yet died they broke their legs: (the soldiers went and broke the legs of the first man and then of the other man who had been crucified with him.
(Joh 19:32 ISV)

When it was Jesus' turn they saw that he had already died, and just to make sure that he was dead they pierced his side causing instant blood loss, had Jesus still shown signs of life in him they would have broken his legs too but they were certain he was dead and saw no need for this. Jesus was seriously losing blood and infection may have ensued and for him to survive in this condition for three days and three nights in the tomb is close to impossible, if the blood loss didn't kill him infection would have. But we are certain that he was dead on the cross, as the text says he gave up the ghost and also the soldiers were certain that he had died.

 

[Shine_0f_sun]

Even the Qur'an says Jesus DIED

Where Quran says?!!!

Note: If christians believe that he died on the cross, then he was a false Prophet and accursed of God According to duet 13:5

"And that Prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death.."[Duet 13:5 from Kjv]

"That Prophet or dreamer Must be put to death"[Duet 13:5 from Niv]

"The False prophets or visionaries who try to lead you astray must be put to death..."[Duet 13:5 from New living translation]

"Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!

you ever read Quran?Let me quote verse!!

"So peace is on me the day I was born, the day what i die, what the day that I shall be raised up to life(again)"[Quran,19:33]

this verse says when Jesus shall be raised up to life again!

"And for claiming that"we killed the christ Jesus, son of Mary, The Messenger of God. In fact, they never killed him,they never crucified him- they were made to think that they did.All faction who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge.They only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him"[Quran 4:157]

"Nay,GOD raised Jesus up unto Himself;and GOD is Exalted in power,wise"[Qurn 4:158]

"and (the unbelievers of Jesus) plotted and planned, and God too planned, the best of planners is God"[Quran 3:54]

this verse says God saved Jesus!

"Behold! God said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blasphemy; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Them shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matthers wherein ye dispute"[Quran 3:55]

Jesus shall be right back again and that times his death shall be natural. They never killed him, Jesus was still Alive and God saved him and raised Jesus up unto himself!!

Same type of verse mentioned about John

"So peace on him(John) the day he was born, the day that he dies, and the day that he will be raised up to life(again)"[Quran, 19:15]

here mentioned about John that he will be raised up to life(again)

Such was Jesus, son of Mary [this is] a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt," (Surah 19, Maryam, Mary: 33,34).

Please tell verse with the context!! This verse mentioned about the truth virgin birth of Jesus

"Relate in the Book (the story) of Mary, when she withdrew from her family to place of Earth"[Quran, 19:16]

"She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then I sent MY Angel, and He appeared befor her as a man in all respects"[Quran, 19:17]

"Mary said: "I seek refuge from thee to ((God)) most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost dear God"[Quran, 19:18]

"He(Gabriel) said: "Nay, i am only a messenger thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the GIFT OF A HOLY SON"[Quran, 19:19]

"Mary said: "How shall I have a Son, seeing that no man has touched me, and i am not uncharte"[Quran, 19:20]

"Angel said "So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: (I Wish) to appoint him(Jesus) as a Sign unto men and Mercy from I': It is a matter (so) decreed"[Quran, 19:21]

"So she(Mary) conceived him, and she retired with him to a remote place"[Quran, 19:22]

"He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity, And he shall be(of the company) of righteous"[Quran, 3:46]

"At length Mary brought the(babe) to her people carrying him. Their people said: "O Mary! truly a strange thing thou brought!. "O sister of Aaron!, thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a women uncharte!"[19:27-28]

Jews Amazed to see that babe cause Mary was a saint lady so how a virgin lady can show us babe?

"But Mary pointed the babe. They said: "How can we talk to one who is child in the cradle?"

"Then Jesus said: "I am indeed a servant and Apostle of God, He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet"

"And God Hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and charity as long as I live;

"He hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable"

"So peace is on me the day I was born, the day what i die, what the day that I shall be raised up to life(again)"

"Such was Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, and which they(vainly) dispute"

[The Quran, chapter Mary, 28-34 verse]

read the context. All is very clear that It mentioned about Jesus virgin born.

In Islam God gave Holy spirit to Jesus!!

"i gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear signs and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit"[Quran, 2:87]

"And Zakaria and John, and Jesus and Elias, all the ranks of the righteous"[Quran, 6:85]

God gave Holy spirit to Jesus but its not mean Jesus is God!


According to bible even God have evil spirit!!

"Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, AND AN EVIL SPIRIT FROM THE LORD tormented him"[1 Samuel 16:14]

"Saul's attendants said to him, "see, AN EVIL SPIRIT FROM GOD is tormenting you"[1 samuel 16:15]

"Then God sent an Evil Spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem.."[Judges 9:23]

"Behold the Lord hath put a laying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets"[1 kings 22:23]

According to bible God have many spirit!

lol!