The Mark of the Beast

[BruceDLimber]

Where does the Bible say that the Antichrist was a former christian?

Simple--First John 2:19:
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us...."

The first phrase indicates they'd been Christians (or at least, had been formerly considered nominally so).

And if you refuse to read what I offer, that's not my fault. Ignorance is NEVER a virtue!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Simple--First John 2:19:
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us...."

The first phrase indicates they'd been Christians (or at least, had been formerly considered nominally so).

And if you refuse to read what I offer, that's not my fault. Ignorance is NEVER a virtue!

Peace,

Bruce

Come on Bruce that is a bit weak to say the least, in backing your claim of anti-Christ. Be it far from me to inhibit this sort of teaching though

 

[Bennettresearch]

Simple--First John 2:19:
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us...."

The first phrase indicates they'd been Christians (or at least, had been formerly considered nominally so).

And if you refuse to read what I offer, that's not my fault. Ignorance is NEVER a virtue!

Peace,

Bruce

Like the other poster stated, this is a real stretch, just like all of the other baloney you have offered. I just love your arrogance. You are accusing me of ignorance????? I have offered, and I have been told this, the most accurate interpretation of chapter 13 yet. You probably didn't even read it when you dismissed it it out of hand. You sir, are the one who is promoting ignorance.

I have yet to see any post from you that makes sense or answers any question about Revelation. You have not given any valid interpretation of chapter 13, nor have you refuted anything that I have delineated. The only consistency is you ego-maniacal cliam to have this so called better answer that you can't deliver.

Craig

 

[BruceDLimber]

On the contrary, not only have I studied it, but I have on hand chapters from two books that explain that specific chapter's prophecies in detail, not to mention several chapters from our own scriptures that explain various portions of that Biblical book!

So I humbly put it to you that you are in NO POSITION to make such a statement!

I can even supply you with Web addresses where you can read our scripture and at least one of the other books on the subject should you be interested; simply ask me for the citations.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[logician]

For those of you paying attention to that sort of thing, you may have seen that a few weeks ago the U.S. state of Virginia passed legislation prohibiting the use of microchip technology being used in humans for fears of it becoming the so called 'mark of the beast' as is foretold in the book of Revelations.


-S-

Wow, this is a real "forward-thinking" group we have here. LOL

 

[Bennettresearch]

On the contrary, not only have I studied it, but I have on hand chapters from two books that explain that specific chapter's prophecies in detail, not to mention several chapters from our own scriptures that explain various portions of that Biblical book!

So I humbly put it to you that you are in NO POSITION to make such a statement!

I can even supply you with Web addresses where you can read our scripture and at least one of the other books on the subject should you be interested; simply ask me for the citations.

Peace,

Bruce

The proof is in the pudding. You have not made any pudding that is edible yet. You still insist you have the answers but your case is easily dismissed and not by me alone in this matter. You need to quit while you can to bail out of the subject of anything related to the book of Revelation.

You should be able to meet my challenge of resolving your claims to the text in chapter 13. Where does chapter 13 discuss former christians? The number 666 is the mark given by the beast in Rev 13:11. How do you get off declaring this as some future date? We are all supposed to wear some date that corresponds to Islam on our foreheads? This doesn't pass the laugh test. You arrogantly dismiss others and even try and call me ignorant on a subject I have studied for 15 years!!!!!

The way it works is like this. If you want to dismiss what I have provided and talk to me like I am clueless, then you have to provide proof and refute my exposition. Not only have you failed miserably, but you never acknowledge facts provided to you by anyone, not just me. Your book sounds like a good doorstop to me.

 

[Bennettresearch]

The same Fundamentalists consider freedom of speech to be evil.

They consider not believing in the Jesus virgin birth to be evil.

They consider freedom to choose another religion to be evil.

They consider not believing in Virgin born Jesus resurrecting to be evil.

They consider scientific inquiry into the causes of phenomena differing from Bible mythology to be evil.

They consider the scientific fact of evolution to be evil.

They condemn Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Tom Paine, and Ethan Allen to be evil for denying the virgin birth and resurrection from the dead of Jesus.

Some of Right Wing Christians believe the holocaust was a hoax.

Some Right Wing Christians believe in White Racial Superiority.

Right Wing Christians would ban books that say the Earth is far older than 6,000 years.

Right Wing Christians would oppose a book claiming that non-Christians, non-theists, and gays deserve equal rights.

The list is much longer, but having lived in Texas in the late 70's, I am not using hyperbole in these comments. I wrote a letter to a City Newspaper (not mentioning or denying God) promoting the teaching of evolution. I received dozens of life threatening phone calls and an envelope in my mail box, with a photo of my wife and toddler son playing in our yard.

This is why I am so strong in my opinion that Conservative Fundamentalism is really a mental disorder. It drives people to kill, threaten to kill, commit arson, and order their children to beat up Jewish kids, gay kids, or Atheist kids at school. The ACLU and FFRF have long lists of these EVIL events.

The real evil and the real sin is any belief system based on fear, God ordered killing/genocide, and hatred of those whose beliefs differ.

Ardipithecus

OMG Texas in the 70's? 5 years in the state pen for a roach or marijuana seed in your ashtray!!!

Please give us real conservative christians a break here. We are not the far right wing loonies you speak of. I agree with your rant as to the actions that some religious groups who call themselves christians commit. I am supporting Jesus against Paul in another thread and Muffled said I was going to hell. Oh well, no account for common sense.

Some agenda driven atheists have really tried to fry me for not aligning myself to the boilerplate view of christianity they possess. I don't have a problem with someone trying to be a clear and logical thinker. Christianity has some real problems that can make anyone want to reject it. The irony is that Jesus was fighting against the very things you are complaining about. He attacked the establishment Pharisees on issues like these.

And so, I am not arguing with you here, only stating that the core of christianity is valid but the application has been nothing short of appalling.

Craig

 

[Jarry]

Is it possible that since the concept of the Mark of the Beast was conceived during a certain time period, it would almost certainly referred to as a tattoo? They didn't have the medical technology we have today; so why would they conceive of a chip that holds information that you cannot lose as evil? The technology wasn't there. It was more than likely a tattoo or a brand of some kind.

 

[Bennettresearch]

Is it possible that since the concept of the Mark of the Beast was conceived during a certain time period, it would almost certainly referred to as a tattoo? They didn't have the medical technology we have today; so why would they conceive of a chip that holds information that you cannot lose as evil? The technology wasn't there. It was more than likely a tattoo or a brand of some kind.

It shows how the methodology of the power structure is quite old. The warning was meant to tell christians that the church would be practicing the same methodology as the ruling government. I haven't researched exactly where the fear originated, such as people being assigned something like an ID number for tax collection. The feeling would be that it is bad enough that the governing body would want this and the church would do the same thing for the purposes of identifying who is a christian and who is not. It turned out to be the Cross.

The myth surrounding the mark of the beast is incredible and people repeat ridiculous interpretations of Revelation as a fact. Like Nero coming back to life. If this kind of nonsense was not constantly being reinforced, people might be able to read chapter 13 and understand that 666 is the number of Jesus which the head bishop might cause us to wear. As it is, the warning at least prevented this act.

We still must be mindful of the governments wish to somehow go into big brother mode. National ID with a chip in it? Scary. Chip implants, over the top.

 

[BruceDLimber]

You should be able to meet my challenge....

Given that you refuse to look at the sources I've cited, your ignorance is your own fault, not mine!

I offered to provide the sites, but you clearly don't want to see them.

So YOUR ignorance is in no way MY fault!

End of conversation.

 

[Bennettresearch]

Given that you refuse to look at the sources I've cited, your ignorance is your own fault, not mine!

I offered to provide the sites, but you clearly don't want to see them.

So YOUR ignorance is in no way MY fault!

End of conversation.

You are the one who is ignorant on the subject of Revelation, not me. You haven't given me one good reason to even consider your book. Ignorance? I call it being intelligent enough to know when something would be a waste of time. Even though the subject of Revelation remains a mystery to most people, they do know one thing for sure, the number 666 is not a date.

I'm thinking at this point that you have not even read my exposition on Revelation. The way you immediately dismissed it and started hawking your book tells me that you didn't even consider my interpretation. It's there for anyone to examine and give any critique as to where it is wrong and why. You have not provided anything in the way of a valid interpretation of Revelation so I can rightly say that is you who are ignorant. End of story.

 

[blackout]

the number 666 is whatever you personally see it as.

thus, your own revelation.

 

[IfUDontKnowMeByNow]

[FONT=&quot]Since the Beast represents death & decay in their own texts (Hebrews 2:14)
and the beast represented the authority coming out of the 'SEA'='Rome'
then the mark of the beast is the sign of the cross which was a symbol that always represented death and decay and destruction prior to the cult borrowing it through Constantine's dream to conquer (kill) through that sign/mark.

[/FONT] The Mark of the Beast in scripture can be seen deeper, like as the path you set for yourself as
in setting a mark out for yourself to get where you're going.<br>
The mark set by G-d is the straightest most successful path to where we could and ought to be, but the Mark of the beast is the path that leads us astray which is a mark leading us downhill and to destruction.
Once you see you are off mark going in the wrong direction (society today) then you must rethink your mark and consider where that mark is coming from and where it's leading you. You'll then notice you've all been deceived and following the Mark of the beast not the Mark (direction) of G-d.<br>
Marking out where your path is set: <br>
The Mark of where you're going and where you want to be.<br>
The Mark Christians take and try and reach is in DEATH,
even realized in their mark, the cross, which represented death prior to their faith and wasn't adopted till around 300-340AD.<br>
For they see death as their salvation and their achievements are in death and reaching their kingdom is in,
by, and through the portals of death & thus their worship is of death.
The Mark Jews and JW's reach for and many other cultures and faiths reach for,
is a perfection of this Life we were graciously given, so that we can live in peace fulfilling all we could be and fulfilling all our dreams for the enjoyment, happiness, love,
& Justice in life and so we can pass that onto our offspring as well out of love and bestowal.<br>
So the Mark Christians put in their minds (head) is the curse according to Deuteronomy\Devarim: 30:19
and warned about in Ezekiel 13:20-22. <br>
Since the Beast represents death & decay (Hebrews 2:14)
then this Mark is of the Beast. <br>
**(Backing this up with proof, besides the Cross itself being very revealing- Read:<br>
Apocryphon of James<br>
".... become seekers for death, like the dead who seek for life; for that which they seek is revealed to them. And what is there to trouble them? As for you, when you examine death it will teach you election. Verily I say unto you, none of those who fear death will be saved; for the kingdom of death belongs to those who put themselves to death!" <br>
The Church teaches the curse when they say:<br>
[FONT=&quot]"solution for mankind's dilemma lies in suffering, and through the portals of death"[/FONT]

 

[Bennettresearch]

the number 666 is whatever you personally see it as.

thus, your own revelation.

This is all very nice. Unfortunately imaginations have run wild on the subject for so long that they prefer the myth to what the text actually says. You may not care to read my delineation on chapter 13 in Debunking the Antichrist Myth, but if one is not superstitious about the word beast, then it is very clear that 666 is the number of Jesus.
But that's OK if you prefer think that way.

 

[Bennettresearch]

[FONT=&quot]Since the Beast represents death & decay in their own texts (Hebrews 2:14)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]and the beast represented the authority coming out of the 'SEA'='Rome' [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]then the mark of the beast is the sign of the cross which was a symbol that always represented death and decay and destruction prior to the cult borrowing it through Constantine's dream to conquer (kill) through that sign/mark.[/FONT]

The Mark of the Beast in scripture can be seen deeper, like as the path you set for yourself as
in setting a mark out for yourself to get where you're going.<br>
The mark set by G-d is the straightest most successful path to where we could and ought to be, but the Mark of the beast is the path that leads us astray which is a mark leading us downhill and to destruction.
Once you see you are off mark going in the wrong direction (society today) then you must rethink your mark and consider where that mark is coming from and where it's leading you. You'll then notice you've all been deceived and following the Mark of the beast not the Mark (direction) of G-d.<br>
Marking out where your path is set: <br>
The Mark of where you're going and where you want to be.<br>
The Mark Christians take and try and reach is in DEATH,
even realized in their mark, the cross, which represented death prior to their faith and wasn't adopted till around 300-340AD.<br>
For they see death as their salvation and their achievements are in death and reaching their kingdom is in,
by, and through the portals of death & thus their worship is of death.
The Mark Jews and JW's reach for and many other cultures and faiths reach for,
is a perfection of this Life we were graciously given, so that we can live in peace fulfilling all we could be and fulfilling all our dreams for the enjoyment, happiness, love,
& Justice in life and so we can pass that onto our offspring as well out of love and bestowal.<br>
So the Mark Christians put in their minds (head) is the curse according to Deuteronomy\Devarim: 30:19
and warned about in Ezekiel 13:20-22. <br>
Since the Beast represents death & decay (Hebrews 2:14)
then this Mark is of the Beast. <br>
**(Backing this up with proof, besides the Cross itself being very revealing- Read:<br>
Apocryphon of James<br>
&quot;.... become seekers for death, like the dead who seek for life; for that which they seek is revealed to them. And what is there to trouble them? As for you, when you examine death it will teach you election. Verily I say unto you, none of those who fear death will be saved; for the kingdom of death belongs to those who put themselves to death!&quot; <br>
The Church teaches the curse when they say:<br>
[FONT=&quot]&quot;solution for mankind's dilemma lies in suffering, and through the portals of death&quot;[/FONT]

This is so far out there and imaginary, full of quotes that don't fit the text, that it really is not worthy of consideration.
1. The beast is not the devil. There is no one Beast as the myopic masses choose to interpret the word. beast is only a substitute for a person or persons. That is all. You have to actually read the text in chapter 13 and understand that there are four beasts in the chapter and each one is different. The final beast, who was pierced with a sword and has come to life is Jesus. Who else could it be? The number 666 that the other beast would have us wear is the number of Jesus.
2. The Devil, or Satan, is the Dragon in Revelation. Just like Leviathan was used in the OT to identify the force behind enemies. Both words are symbolic and are not talking about a literal Satan, but evil forces behind whoever is being described.
3. Your fanciful quotes of the Bible have no relevance to the meaning of chapter 13 whatsoever.

 

[IfUDontKnowMeByNow]

1. The beast is not the devil. .

Never said that, I said the beast was the 2 power system set up in the 'SEA'=ROME that they used to conquer through and by the sign of the cross (Constantine's dream).
In the Dead Sea Scrolls the commentary allowed us to see what slang and code words meant in that day and age. Sea meant Rome and ships meant Rome's army. The revolters used this code to talk about Rome and their army so as the army would not know they were being planed against.

It still stands: the cross is a symbol of death and destruction and Christians call the devil the power of death and destruction therefore the cross is the symbol of
the 'devil influenced' (destructive death worshiping) Roman Authority which used the 2 horn system to put it;s foot in many kingdoms thus the harlet did sleep with many kingdoms..

 

[IfUDontKnowMeByNow]

then it is very clear that 666 is the number of Jesus.

Ironically it is. Jesus is mimicking the baal passion play, in the Canaanite death rites the son has to die to surpass his father Baal on the throne thus the father and son are one in the same story just reinvented with new image to revamp the popularity of the old idol.

Baal Jesus=666 in Gematria The father and son are one.

 

[David69]

the number 666 is whatever you personally see it as.

thus, your own revelation.

thanks I knew I got to the truth... was a matter of seeing from a different perspective 666= 999*** The code/id of Lucifers chosen one IMHO
Cheers
David 69

 

[Danmac]

OMG, you have just given away the secret identity of the Antichrist!!!!!

Craig

The unholy trinity is two about to give birth to the third, the antichrist. The two are here do you not see them? The fact that you do not see the two tells me that you will not know the third when he appears either..

2nd Thes 2: 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

 

[Bennettresearch]

Never said that, I said the beast was the 2 power system set up in the 'SEA'=ROME that they used to conquer through and by the sign of the cross (Constantine's dream).
In the Dead Sea Scrolls the commentary allowed us to see what slang and code words meant in that day and age. Sea meant Rome and ships meant Rome's army. The revolters used this code to talk about Rome and their army so as the army would not know they were being planed against.

It still stands: the cross is a symbol of death and destruction and Christians call the devil the power of death and destruction therefore the cross is the symbol of
the 'devil influenced' (destructive death worshiping) Roman Authority which used the 2 horn system to put it;s foot in many kingdoms thus the harlet did sleep with many kingdoms..

The Sea is the populace of the world. How can Rome come up out of itself? It came out of the sea, the populace of the world.
The way you were talking it sounded like you were saying the beast was the devil. The word is only a substitution and has no meaning.
There are four distinct beasts in chapter 13, there is no composite.
1. The Head, whose wound was healed, is later referred to as the first beast. Therefore, the opening beast, Rome, is not being referred to. This is Paul. This is the most important key in the chapter as John is showing how he transitions a person into a beast.
2. The Lamb, is Jesus of course. John transitions Jesus into the beast who was pierced with a sword and has come to life. This is the beast whose number we were supposed to wear. 666 is the number of Jesus.
3. The beast with horns like a lamb, is predicting what the head bishop would do. That is, peform a great sign and exalt the first beast, and cause an image of the beast to be made, the crucifix. He then would cause us to wear the mark of the beast, the cross. This turned out to be Constantine.
I have delineated this chapter in my thread Debunking the Antichrist Myth.
Craig